see I understand they job which is why I don't like DC fanboys try and uses character taking on teams as evidence to begin an arguement. I am simply using it to counter DS arguement that he taken on team= he owns all BS.
Once again. DS has taken down the Titans, one at a time. That is, not as a team. He has ALSO fared well against the JLA, one at a time. If you're not getting this, that's not as a team. He's also done well when he took them on as a team.
not trying to uses low showings, but trying to pretend that him beating on a few teams is anymore then teams jobbing is luaghable. Wolveirne taken it to jsut as many teams, but you dont see wolverine fans bringing that crap up everytime he coems in a thread.
becuase DS has taken a few teams does in no way equate to him beating wolverine or anyone else for that matter one on one.
teams job it a fact.
also this is fresh coming from the individual who believes NW is a great deal more skilled then wolverien with zero evidence proving this
He never fairs anywere near as well which si what you dont get. The teams job, when he fights them one on one like NW for example they give him a hand ful.
yes but not nearly as well, he has fits from them one on one, so bringing him taking on a team is irrelevent, becuase teams job.
also can you actaul make an arguement for why he wins other then he faces the titans and once beat the jsla because this is just stupid.
Also, I'm not a DC fanboy, and I really like Logan more than I like DS. I've always thought that DS was a pretty 1-d character when juxtaposed to Wolverine. (i.e. DS is a soldier who was experimented on by the Gov. as Wolverine is pratically immortal who lived several lifetimes before being experimented on by the gov and subsequently lost his memories and lived a couple of lifetimes after that.) Maybe you're the fanboy. I still think that DS would take the majority vs. Logan because, as he has been consistently written, he's a much better strategist and far more intelligent.
when has he ever fought cyborge in one on one please I love the issue number. oh and when he fought super boy as well one on one. I mean strictly one on one.
it not even about beating them it about level of ease, I dont think you get what I am saying at all.
If you where to chart the top DC and Marvel MAs the lists would intersect at Batman and Daredevil. Above them you have Richard Dragon on the DC side and Shang-Chi on the Marvel side (obviously Shang-Chi is superior but just go with it). Wolverine is higher still. He is a few rungs up the MA later above Batman. Now, obviously there are many other MA's who would be on this thearitcal list, but I'm keeping it limited for the sake of this discussion to make things clear.
Outside of the "Old Masters," Wolverine is considered one of the top three (if not the top), skilled Martial Artists on Marvel Earth. Batman doesn't make even make the top 5 in DC, and the people at the top of that chart aren't parallel with the tops of the Marvel chart. In terms of skill, Marvels streets are - generally - better. Same with the Old Masters. Obviously some incarnations of Karate Kid are hands down at the top of the heap but, other than that the scale generally leans more towards the Marvel side.
Deathstroke is prep genius. Thats how he beats teams. He might even be more tactical and resourceful than even Batman. No one is going to suggest that with prep Slade couldn't find a way to take down Logan, but standard gear he doesn't stand a shot in hell. Physically the two are virtually mirror images of each other (Wolverine being slightly stronger), but Logan is exceedingly more skilled and has much higher damage soak and healing factor.
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Batman is definitely in the top 5. He knows practically every art and DC has the 2 best MA's in history. Then you have a meta like Jin Si, who is the spirit of Martial arts. DC is just as good as Marvel.
Without getting into the order Drako, Dragon, Shiva, Cass, Hawke and Bronze Tiger are all superior fighters. I don't count the "Old Masters" like I Ching, O Sensie, and Sensie or Jin Si primarily because it gets confusing (and in the DC case, the Old Masters haven't done much) but they are all superior as well.
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I don't see BT being more superior now. He did beat Batman before but that was a long time ago, before Batman has even mastered every combat. Daken? How are you measuring this? How would you measure Shang as more skilled in HTH than say Dragon?
Translation: Batdude is buttsore that Captain America > Batman in terms of skill.
I know a lot of people like to make the assumption for whatever reason that Captain America and Batman are equal in terms of h2h, but that just isn't the case. First off Captain America has been stated as being a master of every know Martial Art style on Earth, on panel. Batman has not. Simple enough, but that isn't all. Both Wolverine and Captain America are established as being superior to Shang-Chi, confirmed by Shang-Chi and Shang-Chi's villains in Caps case and demonstrated in Wolverine's case by him beating Shang-Chi in three panels. Shang-Chi's exploits are virtually a mirror image of those Richard Dragon, only much more numerous and with sprinklings of uber insane feats Dragon couldn't even dream off. Richard Dragon = Shang-Chi. Richard Dragon > Batman. Shang-Chi > Batman. Wolverine > Shang-Chi.
In terms of skill Batman = Daredevil (more or less but close enough), and in Marvel there are a lot of characters more skilled than Daredevil.
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Who is the best martial artist in their respective universe is not at issue. Who would win in a fight between DS and Logan given two specific circumstances. DS is not only a prep-master, he's a master strategist. He has proven time and again that he can walk into a spontaneous battle, survey the situation, and take action to ensure he is the winner. Logan has proven that he is suceptible to manipulation during a battle, and I propose that any berzerker rage would play directly into DS's hands. As far as when he took down the Titans one by one, look up the "Judas Contract." It's a classic and you'll like it.
Without prep Slade isn't that much of a threat. He's been beaten by Batman, Bronze Tiger, and Eddie Fryers; (lol) stalemated by Deadshot (twice), and Azrael; even Nightwing has managed to give him pause. Wolverine simply outclases Slade, without prep it just isn't much of a fight.
And a berserker Wolverine is no advantage for Deathstroke. B-Rage Wolverine is better in every conceivable way, and would make short work of Deathstroke. Wolverine doesn't struggle to keep his rage in check because it makes him sloppy, he does it because it makes him a perfect killer who acts without compulsion and kills indiscriminately. Berserker Rage Wolverine would eat Deathstroke for breakfast.
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Apr 28th, 2010 08:07 PM
