Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
4/5 implies that you do not dismiss the possibility of Darth Plagueis being above Valkorion.
Correct.
And that your default assumption is Darth Plagueis > Valkorion.
...no? I listed them both as 4/5, lol. Regardless, quibbling over your reading mishap is kinda pointless.
I don't feel the need to present an essay about Valkorion's powers when I have written blogs for the said purpose. You can always go through them. But I will give you hints.
🤣 Nobody is going to read through your eloquent writings if they don't have to.
Valkorion have superior showings then those of Yoda in the domains of Telepathy,
Who cares? You don't need to be as powerful as someone to resist their telepathy; Valkorion couldn't even dominate the Outlander and Arcann, let alone Yoda, lol.
If we're going beyond combative applications, Yoda resists the nexus-amped mind-hacking sorcery of Sidious + Dooku. That he doesn't try to dominate people's minds Valkorion style is silly to hold against him - of course he isn't going to want to do that. That's why I try to compare the two in areas where they both have an incentive and opportunity to show off their abilities.
Force Concealment, Alter Environment
Not using his own power rather than amped-sorcery, no. But your claims would be a little more persuasive if you actually provided some examples, lol.
and Defensive Applications.
How so?
Valkorion is also a match for Yoda in the domain of Telekinesis via power-scaling.
Power-scaling from who? Yoda has TK'd Sidious, who is more powerful than anyone Valkorion has dealt with, and he's f*cked with droid command ships, which is a more impressive feat than anything anyone in TOR has done. You're going to have to elaborate a little bit.
Furthermore, Valkorion have superior showings then those of Palpatine in the domains of Force Lightning,
😆 Palpatine's lightning can literally light-up planetary surfaces.
Sith Sorcery
What has he done without absorbing other peoples' energies or harnessing nexuses that exceeds Palpatine's capabilities?
The funny thing is that Palpatine can pull off feats like planetary destruction that other Sith like Vitiate need massive prep + nexues + rituals to imitate. 😂
He and Plagueis also literally unbalance the Force itself - and they don't even need sorcery/rituals to do this! They literally just meditate really hard and succeed via sheer force of will.
Palpatine, unamped, with no rituals > Valkorion, amped, using rituals on nexuses. lol.
and Force Drain (another method to determine his superiority over Yoda).
Why would Yoda want to use Force drain?
Valkorion also have superior combat showings then Yoda.
One-shotting the likes of Arcann and Marr doesn't really tell us much.
So performing rituals is a sign of weakness now? Rituals are methods/experiments intended to develop new powers, hone existing talents and/or acquire new abilities.
The point is that while Sidious can use sorcery too, he pulls off feats greater than Valkorion's just via his own will and raw power, which is obviously more impressive than feeding off of a nexus and a bunch of Force users to do so. Force storms, for example, are more destructive than anything Valkorion has ever done (Ziost doesn't "rip surfaces off [the world]" or destroying super star destroyers), and Sidious harnesses them purely from his power in the dark side.
Vitiate didn't drew on other people's energies to do things for him; he siphoned their energy to become more powerful with passage of time. This is not a negative for Vitiate in any sense. His showings are representative of his raw power, not that of others.
So it's just a coincidence that all of his Nathema-esque feats coincide with absorbing people's energies, harnessing nexuses, and feeding off of sith spirits? Ok. 👆
If you have any counterexamples rather than vague objections, go ahead.
Tulak Hord affected a Starship (equivalent in size to Endar Spire) with his telekinetic powers.
He pulls a ship down under unknown circumstances, over an unknown period of time. It could've taken him an hour, and the Spire could've already been falling.
Darth Nihilus affected a Starship (Ravager) with his telekinetic powers.
On a nexus.
Darth Jadus affected a Starship (Harrower-class) with his telekinetic powers as well.
True (at least according to his word, lol), which is why he's on this list. But he only holds together a part of the ship. Starkiller disintegrating a cruiser is more impressive, tbh.
By virtue of power-scaling, Vitiate can affect those vessels and then some.
Only the Jadus feat is genuinely impressive, and even then, it's only a portion of the ship held together under unknown circumstances.
And when did Yoda ever levitate portions of mountains? Provide evidence.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d7yuEmRoUVc @ 3:20 - I did misremember, he really only collapses part of a mountain, so it's not really as impressive as his other OCW feats + scaling from Starkiller.
It is infinitely greater then anything Yoda have done in a combat situation.
You mean like matching Darth Sidous in personal combat? ROFL
This is your thread: http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f6/t625148.htmlYou perceive feats-wars as a meaningless exercise.
I...don't? I literally say "feats can be useful", lol. I point out that most people don't actually abide by them.
Yet, you make statements such as:And when Valkorion can match Yoda's OCW feats on his own power, let me know.
When Revan can TK star destroyers and disintegrate frigates on his own power, let me know.
Double-standards much?
Well, what do you want to use? "Hype in encyclopedic medium"? Because Palpatine and Yoda have that in the bag, and I seem to recall you knowing that (literally there's an official answer to this question that calls "Palpatine at his peak" the most powerful sith). Palpatine has also been labeled the most powerful dark side Force user ever - and while this may exclude the Son and Abeloth for their obscurity, it couldn't reasonably exclude a guy as important to galactic events as Valkorion.
So accolades go heavily against you and your whole pet era, given that the Prequel Jedi are considered the prime of the Order, and instead you try to argue via feats, until you lose that war as well. Then you just pout and complain.
I use everything at my disposal to make a case for a character such as accolades, feats, assessment of capabilities of character's opponents and power-scaling. I also apply common sense to plug some loopholes. This approach enables me to draw accurate inferences. I used to argue that Revan was a powerful Force-user 'before' the novel came out and SWTOR related events occurred; a time when some fans used to assert in debates that Revan may have used guns and grenades to defeat Darth Malak on Star Forge.
Funny, you just called a comparison of feats a "meaningless dick measuring exercise", and you've dismissed accolades as contradicting what you think are superior TOR feats, and now you're here vaguely alluding to your ability to synthesize all of this information, despite having done nothing of the sort throughout this debate.
Did Darth Vader ever affect an Imperial Star Destroyer with his telekinetic powers? Did Palpatine?
No, but they're both above Starkiller by virtue of confronting and beating him, respectively. Again, in your own words, we can use feats, powerscaling and accolades, and here I'm using the second option combined with the first. You, meanwhile, seem to want to use "whatever suits my fancy".
1. Revan one-shotted Darth Nyriss, a Sith Lord powerful enough to defeat Meetra Surik and Lord Scourge simultaneously. Galen Marek have nothing on this.
😂 Beating Meetra isn't that impressive given that they're on a dark side nexus. Scourge at this point is utterly featless, beyond being considered the best in his academy class and having lots of potential. He has neither the feats nor the signals to put him anywhere near Qui Gon's level, let alone someone who could've challenged Marek.
Also, Revan's oneshottting Nyrris is highly circumstantial. He deflects her charged attack back at her, .ie, he lets her do the work for him. He's strong enough to redirect it, yes, but that disparity does not equate to being able to oneshot her under his own power, it just means that his tutanimus is superior to hers.
Galen, meanwhile, has defeated TFU Vader, who is clearly far superior to Nyriss by feats, accolades, powerscaling, hype, and pretty much everything.
2. Revan was also able to use both the Light and Dark Sides simultaneously to attain oneness-like state and unleash his strongest powers in this manner. He was able to affect even Vitiate in this manner. Galen Marek have nothing on this.
As usual, you provide a lot of awkward adjectives and say a whole lot of nothing - he does not achieve a "oneness like state", he just unleashes a powerful blast on a preoccupied Vitiate. Good for him. Galen Marek can catch Sidious's lightning and advance against him. That >>
3. Revan sent an entire Strike Team packing across the arena with a wave of energy. Galen Marek have nothing on this.
Why do you capitalize "Strike Team", as though the mere mention of the word is supposed to impress me?
4. Revan is also stated to have greater command of the Force then everybody whom Meetra Surik had interacted with during her life and the list includes Darth Traya, Darth Sion and Darth Nihilus. Galen Marek does not outgun them in showings.
Says who? You? I don't recall Traya or Sion disintegrating frigates, bringing down AT-ATs, one-shotting hundreds of stormtroopers at the same time, being stated by the creators of the f*cking series to rival Luke in Force potential, etc. The only potential contender, Nihilus, performs his most impressive feats on the dark side nexus of Malachor.
I am capable of understanding your arguments.
Lol, I was just going off of your claim that you didn't, and your subsequently not responding to them.
Luke Skywalker did not inherit potential equivalent to that of Anakin Skywalker. Otherwise, he would have become as powerful as the Father by FOTJ.
Says who? It's not necessarily the case that FP Anakin = Father - we know that the Son and Daughter became that way because they bathed in the Pool of Knowledge, .ie they needed an extra amp. And Luke does not necessarily ever unlock all of his potential given that Palpatine was still not at his peak as of RotJ, but given his growth curve from ESB to RotJ to DE, it's impossible to see him not surpassing Palpatine without leveling off before his peak for some reason.
It is implied that Luke Skywalker had the potential to surpass Palpatine but you forgot one thing: George Lucas talks only about canon incarnations of his characters. He doesn't considers EU based incarnations. So Luke Skywalker could become more powerful then Palpatine (ROTJ) at maximum. Big deal.
Lol, even in-universe Palpatine thinks that Luke has the potential to destroy him (ESB, RotJ), and there's no evidence that Palpatine's natural ceiling somehow increases when he gets his clone body.
Luke can already defeat Palpatine in DE with some unlocked potential from Leia, and I doubt that Leia can unlock >30 years of improvement.
Valkorion >> Palpatine (ROTJ)
RotJ Palpatine can still unleash Force storms, he just can't control them (but Valkorion has never "controlled" his own ritual based planetary destruction in any fine tuned manner). GG
A feat that a Darth Vader level Force-user could perform as well; Kyp Durron. It is useless to cite.
What makes you think Kyp is a Darth Vader level Force-user? But thanks for arguing that Vader can manipulate singularities, lol.
Throughout the course of war
No, during The Unifying Force.
Something worth boasting about, finally.
Which you naturally don't respond to. 👆
Hyperbole
No. The author goes to far too many lengths to detail the feat for it to be a throwaway hyperbole. It's like he knows that we'd assume that, so he does exactly what you'd expect him to do if he wanted to be literal, short of awkwardly using the word "literally".
Where it is stated that UnuThul had the Force-potential of an entire colony of billions of Killiks?
Somebody else answered this; even if you take the description as hyperbolic, the action of resisting UnuThul's TK is one of the most impressive defensive applications of the Force in the entire mythos. It's hardly "overhyped" in comparison to ragdolling "Strike Teams", lol.
Big deal?Valkorion one-shotted Arcann.
😂 You think Arcann has done something to put him on Caedus's level?
Indeed
Nope, still no comparative analysis. *sigh*
01. One-shotting an entire Dark Council
We've been over this before. He does this with foreknowledge and prep, which Drew himself says Vitiate takes advantage of, and mysteriously never replicates this against Arcann, Revan, Scourge, Meetra, the HoT, or any of the strike teams that he faces. Huh, it's almost like he only does this when he possesses a litany of positive circumstances!
02. Altering the environment of planet Dromund Kaas
Over the course of a thousand years? *yawn* Plagueis's mere arrival on a planet sets a historically long winter, lol.
03. Successfully completing a ritual that killed 8000 Sith Lords and everybody else on the planet
So what? Even trainee Bane can ravage huge swaths of a planet with just a few hundred weakling brotherhood sith. Heck, a bunch of Jedi apprentices just needed a nexus to Force push 17 star destroyers out of a star system. That he can kill a planet with 8000 sith lords isn't that impressive when Palpatine can do this by himself
04. Creating a nexus of Dark Side energy
🤣 According to Luke, Palpatine is a dark side nexus.
05. Defeating the duo of battle-hardened Revan and Malak without even a gesture
Pre-KotoR Revan and Malak, on the precipice of the dark side already, while Vitiate has prep (which Drew states himself is important to his telepathy), on a dark side nexus
vs.
Mind-dominating Luke Skywalker
GG
06. Overwhelming a Jedi Strike Team comprising of some of the most powerful Jedi of the Order
None of them have feats or accolades comparable to pre-vaapad Windu + the B team, and Palpatine overwhelms them faster.
07. Telepathically influencing countless individuals on planet Ziost (including many Jedi Masters, Sith and battle-hardened soldiers)
*yawn* On a dark side nexus. Palpatine himself does this to Byss.
08. Repelling Lightsaber-strikes with bear hands
*yawn* Kylo Ren and Satele can do this. Palpatine can tank Starkiller's significantly more energetic suicide blast.
Also, this seems to be more of him applying telekinesis to stop Arcann's swings than actually withstanding the heat of a lightsaber blade.
09. Eliminating scores of Knights of Zakuul and Skytroopers with a wave of Dark Side energy by manipulating time-and-space continuum
Ooohhh, he can kill knights of Zakuul!
10. Downing scores of Starships with a Force Lightning Storm
If you're referring to his attacking Arcann, he just disables their internal systems. Palpatine can actually light up planets with generic Force lightning.
11. One-shotting powerful Force-users such as Arcann and Darth Marr
How does this put him on Palpatine's level?
12. Creating Voice and Children and concealing the presence of all Children from the Jedi Order for decades while attending to other matters through Voice; one of the greatest examples of multi-tasking
He's good with those kinds of essence-splitting skills, but he does this with an essentially infinite amount of time and prep, so it's not as impressive as a lot of the sh*t that Palpatine pulls off in real time.
13. Creating beings of pure Dark Side energy through sheer force of will; beings that were nearly impossible to kill
"nearly impossible to kill" lol.
14. Killing a world with an expression of Force Drain (a showing that requires nearly an entire Jedi Order to pull off)
Palpatine can rip the surface off of a planet and threaten to "consume all of space" with his sheer force of will. You aren't going to win a comparison of their destructive abilities
1/3
Originally posted by The Ellimist
Correct....no? I listed them both as 4/5, lol. Regardless, quibbling over your reading mishap is kinda pointless.
I suppose that Darth Bane is more powerful then Valkorion as well? Because he has one too:
If the dark side's most powerful master can capture the ultimate secret, the Sith will never die. (Back cover of Dynasty of Evil)
You have to look on a deeper level then a back cover marketing statement (or superlative) to assess a character on accurate terms. Such statements are not to be taken at face value: http://www.theguardian.com/books/2014/jul/31/book-covers-ignore-superlatives
- and not canon. Member DarthAnt66 can enlighten you further in this regard. He confirmed from one of the authors (of Star Wars related content) that back cover information does not represent's author's views of the subject.
Originally posted by The Ellimist
🤣 Nobody is going to read through your eloquent writings if they don't have to.
Originally posted by The Ellimist
Who cares? You don't need to be as powerful as someone to resist their telepathy; Valkorion couldn't even dominate the Outlander and Arcann, let alone Yoda, lol.
Valkorion never attempted to break Arcann at any point in history. Valkorion suppressed Force-sensitivity of Vaylin for years though.
Originally posted by The Ellimist
If we're going beyond combative applications, Yoda resists the nexus-amped mind-hacking sorcery of Sidious + Dooku. That he doesn't try to dominate people's minds Valkorion style is silly to hold against him - of course he isn't going to want to do that. That's why I try to compare the two in areas where they both have an incentive and opportunity to show off their abilities.
Yes, being a Jedi, Yoda would be reserved in the use of the Force in offensive ways; this I agree with. But when push comes to shove, Yoda doesn't have qualms in bringing out the best in him.
Originally posted by The Ellimist
Not using his own power rather than amped-sorcery, no. But your claims would be a little more persuasive if you actually provided some examples, lol.
Look at this example:
With Darth Zash subdued, the Sith inquisitor inherits her power base and becomes a Sith Lord. But the inquisitor nearly loses everything after being caught in a trap devised by Darth Thanaton, a supremely powerful Sith and harsh traditionalist who bristles at the idea of a former slave rising to sudden influence. To combat Thanaton's insurmountable strength, the inquisitor learns the ritual of Force-walking and gains power by consuming the energy of Darth Andru, a seething Force spirit locked away on Dromund Kaas. Fueled by the ghost's power, the inquisitor confronts Thanaton – only to be nearly eradicated by the superior Sith's dark sorcery.
Source: http://www.swtor.com/info/news/blog/20150924
Visual demonstration of the aforementioned revelation:
Darth Thanaton one-shotted (pre-prime) Darth Nox with a manifestation of Sith Sorcery. And it is a valid demonstration of Darth Thanaton's strength and command of the Dark Side just like any other standard offensive application would be.
---
Coming towards Valkorion:-
Alter Environment
Power hungry, the Emperor spent great energy discovering and perfecting esoteric rites of darkness – rituals that wrecked the atmosphere of Dromund Kaas, transforming the ionosphere into a swirling electric storm.
From Star Wars: The Old Republic: Holonet
The aforementioned revelation makes it clear that Valkorion became a master of Alter Environment related talents and utilized them on Dromund Kaas to corrupt its atmosphere.
Here is another way of looking at the aforementioned feat:
The powerful electrical storms were a physical manifestation of the dark side power that engulfed the entire planet—a power that had brought the Sith back here a millennium before, when their very survival had been in doubt.
Taken from Star Wars: The Old Republic: Revan
Who brought the Sith to Dromund Kaas after the Great Hyperspace War? Valkorion did [The term "a power" is symbolically referring to Valkorion]
Force Concealment
Valkorion infused a part of his being in Jedi Master Syo Bakaran, transforming the Jedi Master into his most powerful child (known to galaxy as the First Son). Valkorion bestowed the power of Force Concealment (and similar applications) to the First Son.
The Sith Emperor seeks to shape all things to his will. His Children, individuals infused with part of his being, have been scattered throughout the Republic, knowingly–or unknowingly–manipulating events to the Emperor's advantage over the years. Above them all is the First Son of the Emperor, a master strategist placed within the Jedi Council itself. Cloaked in the identity of Master Syo Bakarn, the First Son has been hiding the Children from the Jedi for decades, playing a long game with the Republic. His actions suggest a man possessing remarkable patience, ruthlessness and power. However, as Sophia Farash claimed, Master Syo has been unaware of the First Son’s existence–suggesting he and the First Son are two separate personas.
From Star Wars: The Old Republic: Codex Entry titled "The First Son (Consular)"
&
The Jedi remained blind to the Emperor's children due to the presence of the First Son, the being who was first imprinted with the Emperor's power. While the First Son lived, the Emperor's secret army remained hidden and undetected beneath the Republic's nose. By the time of the Great War, hundreds of the Emperor's Children were embedded within the Republic. Devoted Jedi, loyal soldiers, and influential politicians all unknowingly served as the Emperor's spies and, when the Emperor willed I, acted to tear down the Republic they held so dear.[/I]
From Star Wars: The Old Republic: Encyclopedia
Once again, the aforementioned feat of Force Concealment is a valid demonstration of raw power and command of the Dark Side of Valkorion.
Originally posted by The Ellimist
How so?
Originally posted by The Ellimist
Power-scaling from who? Yoda has TK'd Sidious, who is more powerful than anyone Valkorion has dealt with, and he's f*cked with droid command ships, which is a more impressive feat than anything anyone in TOR has done. You're going to have to elaborate a little bit.
You don't have to be Yoda to affect Palpatine.
Yoda f*cked with droid command ships?
1. Darth Jadus affected a Harrower-class starship, preventing its breakup after bomb blasts.
2. Do I need to say anything about Darth Nihilus? He replicated Darth Jadus's showing and then some.
3. Tulak Hord affected a Starship the size of Endar Spire.
Sorry friend, Yoda is outgunned in feats.
2/3
Originally posted by The Ellimist
What has he done without absorbing other peoples' energies or harnessing nexuses that exceeds Palpatine's capabilities?
1. Valkorion, long before his prime, orchestrated a ritual that only he managed to control and take advantage of; 8000 additional Sith participants perished. This ritual led to creation of largest nexus in the galaxy as a side-effect. Darth Revan managed to document its findings in his holocron and when Darth Bane found this holocron, he felt overwhelmed while digesting such information and mused that even a true Sith Master wouldn't attempt such a thing. Indeed, no Banite Sith ever attempted it.
2. Valkorion one-shotted a Dark Council with Sith Sorcery. And nothing implies that Valkorion harnessed the power of a nexus to perform the deed.
3. Vitiate's feat of corrupting the atmosphere of Dromund Kaas is also an example of Sith Sorcery. This corruption effort was so strong that its effects lasted centuries and/or permanent.
So whether we consider a ritual, combat situation or influencing external environment, Vitiate have set a benchmark with Sith Sorcery.
Originally posted by The Ellimist
The funny thing is that Palpatine can pull off feats like planetary destruction that other Sith like Vitiate need massive prep + nexues + rituals to imitate. 😂
One of the Emperor's Force Storms destroyed the Alliance base on the moon of Da Soocha and the entire fleet above it. Every day I'm reminded how lucky we are that Palpatine is lost to Chaos forever.
From Book of Sith: Secrets from the Dark Side
Vitiate have a legitimate demonstration of planetary destruction; Ziost. Read about it here: http://comicvine.gamespot.com/profile/s_w_legend/blog/cataclysm-of-planet-ziost/105050/
Vitiate reduced Ziost to a barren wasteland with his own power.
Originally posted by The Ellimist
He and Plagueis also literally unbalance the Force itself - and they don't even need sorcery/rituals to do this! They literally just meditate really hard and succeed via sheer force of will.
The shift had been the outcome of months of intense meditation, during which Plagueis and Sidious had sought to challenge the Force for sovereignty and suffuse the galaxy with the power of the dark side.
From Star Wars: Darth Plagueis
However, the aforementioned development is not unique since Force-users have greatest impact on the balance of the Force:
More than any others, it is the Force-sensitive beings of the galaxy who have the greatest influence upon the balance of the Force.
From Star Wars: Force and Destiny
- and this balance have shifted over time:
For this reason, some believe that the Jedi and Sith must share an ultimately common origin, and their creation in the distant past embodies the opposition between the light and dark sides. As their relative power has increased or diminished over the centuries, it has only reinforced another deeply held belief about the Force: that it has a balance, and that this balance can shift over time.
From Star Wars: Force and Destiny
More;
The Force was omnipresent. It radiated stronger in certain places and at certain times, and the balance of the dark side and the light constantly shifted.
From Star Wars: The Old Republic: Revan
And (not surprisingly) Valkorion is implied to be among the sources disturbing the balance:
"The Force always strives for balance. The Emperor is an agent of darkness and destruction. It is inevitable that a champion of the light will one day rise to oppose him. I may be that champion." (Revan)
Originally posted by The Ellimist
Palpatine, unamped, with no rituals > Valkorion, amped, using rituals on nexuses. lol.
Originally posted by The Ellimist
Why would Yoda want to use Force drain?
Repeat:
Furthermore, Valkorion have superior showings then those of Palpatine in the domains of Force Lightning, Sith Sorcery and Force Drain (another method to determine his superiority over Yoda).
You think that you have intellect. Then try to comprehend what I am asserting.
Originally posted by The Ellimist
One-shotting the likes of Arcann and Marr doesn't really tell us much.
Now show me a comparable example of Yoda.
Originally posted by The Ellimist
The point is that while Sidious can use sorcery too, he pulls off feats greater than Valkorion's just via his own will and raw power, which is obviously more impressive than feeding off of a nexus and a bunch of Force users to do so. Force storms, for example, are more destructive than anything Valkorion has ever done (Ziost doesn't "rip surfaces off [the world]" or destroying super star destroyers), and Sidious harnesses them purely from his power in the dark side.
On what grounds you are assuming that Valkorion had to feed off of a nexus and a bunch of Force-users to perform actions? Do you even understand the story of Valkorion? I doubt it.
Comparing Force Storm and Force Drain is like comparing a banana with an apple. Force Storm and Force Drain are intended for entirely different purposes.
Force Storm can be utilized to transmit living beings and/or matter from one location to another (if the intent is productive) and also to destroy objects (if the intent is lethal). Most powerful expressions of Force Storm can break the space-time continuum and possibly ravage an entire planet. But no documented evidence of a Force Storm killing a world exists.
Force Drain is used to affect living beings and steal their life-force and/or energy. Most lethal expressions of Force Drain can destroy/consume living beings, devastate ecosystems (on planetary scale) and also ravage the external environment (on planetary-scale) such as harming atmospheric conditions, vaporizing oceans and causing violent tremors (that may damage/collapse structures) through sheer intensity. The harm done to the external environment is not intentional, rather a side-effect.
Cataclysm of Ziost is a demonstration of power of the Dark Side:
Whispered rumors have persisted of planets snuffed out through intricate Sith rituals or by way of deadly, arcane machines--such as the device Revan sought to employ on Yavin 4--but Ziost represents a clear display of the corrosive power of the dark side of the Force taken to its extreme.
From Star Wars: The Old Republic: Rise of the Sith Emperor: Codex Entry titled "Death of a World."
- Power of Valkorion
3/3
Originally posted by The Ellimist
So it's just a coincidence that all of his Nathema-esque feats coincide with absorbing people's energies, harnessing nexuses, and feeding off of sith spirits? Ok. 👆If you have any counterexamples rather than vague objections, go ahead.
Originally posted by The Ellimist
He pulls a ship down under unknown circumstances, over an unknown period of time. It could've taken him an hour, and the Spire could've already been falling.
Originally posted by The Ellimist
On a nexus.
Malachor V contained gravitational anomalies and Darth Nihilus had to work against them to lift the Ravager into space.
You accuse me of vague objectives? Ironic, isn't it?
Originally posted by The Ellimist
True (at least according to his word, lol), which is why he's on this list. But he only holds together a part of the ship. Starkiller disintegrating a cruiser is more impressive, tbh.
Darth Jadus's rage shook his entire Starship at one point.
And Darth Jadus held the entire Starship together:
"All military channels are reporting in. The Dominator has been completely destroyed." (Watcher Two)
--
"Nothing could have survived that explosion. All sources confirm. Casualties are one hundred percent." (Watcher Two)
--
"The shvash gas incinerated only part of the ship. My power held together the remains." (Darth Jadus)
- Darth Jadus minimized the damage.
Starkiller never disintegrated an entire Cruiser. He blew apart only a segment of it (this too when the Starship's integrity had been completely comprised due to pressures of fall and it was disintegrating). It is not as impressive as you believe it to be.
Originally posted by The Ellimist
Only the Jadus feat is genuinely impressive, and even then, it's only a portion of the ship held together under unknown circumstances.
Originally posted by The Ellimist
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d7yuEmRoUVc @ 3:20 - I did misremember, he really only collapses part of a mountain, so it's not really as impressive as his other OCW feats + scaling from Starkiller.
Satele Shan, years before her prime, have comparatively more impressive showing then this one.
Originally posted by The Ellimist
You mean like matching Darth Sidous in personal combat? ROFL
Don't post silly remarks. Palpatine defeated Yoda.
Originally posted by The Ellimist
I...don't? I literally say "feats can be useful", lol. I point out that most people don't actually abide by them.
Originally posted by The Ellimist
Well, what do you want to use? "Hype in encyclopedic medium"? Because Palpatine and Yoda have that in the bag, and I seem to recall you knowing that (literally there's an official answer to this question that calls "Palpatine at his peak" the most powerful sith).So accolades go heavily against you and your whole pet era, given that the Prequel Jedi are considered the prime of the Order, and instead you try to argue via feats, until you lose that war as well. Then you just pout and complain.
Star Wars is a continuously expanding saga and books written on its topics become outdated in some regards after years. Retcons often occur and newer editions are released to cover latest events and make sense of them. A large number of sources represent in-universe perspective of things. Some scholars may assume that Yoda was the most powerful Jedi ever, some may assume that he is one of the most powerful ever.
This is a reasonable accolade for Yoda from Disney:
Yoda was a legendary Jedi Master and stronger than most in his connection with the Force. Small in size but wise and powerful, he trained Jedi for over 800 years, playing integral roles in the Clone Wars, the instruction of Luke Skywalker, and unlocking the path to immortality.
Stronger then most, but not everybody.
Check Yoda's respect thread in ComicVine! You will notice a varied perspective of his power in different sources. Some sources assert that he is the best and some assert that he is one of the best.
Valkorion cannot compete with those characters in the aspect of accolades who existed in the future timelines. Therefore, we have to look at the bigger picture. To address this paradox, we need to focus on feats and accomplishments of Valkorion and compare them with the same of characters in the future to draw an informed conclusion.
Based on feats and accomplishments, Valkorion >> Yoda (Good luck at proving Yoda's superiority in this manner).
Originally posted by The Ellimist
Palpatine has also been labeled the most powerful dark side Force user ever - and while this may exclude the Son and Abeloth for their obscurity, it couldn't reasonably exclude a guy as important to galactic events as Valkorion.
Legend. You know c'baoth who was able to control the minds of 10,000 people at once failed to even manipulate the minds of either Luke or Mara right? Affecting force users with telepathy is a far more difficult task then affecting non force users and someone of Yoda's power is likely impossible to affect with it.
Just thought I'd address one of the points in your post I found a bit odd.
Originally posted by Syndicate
Legend. You know c'baoth who was able to control the minds of 10,000 people at once failed to even manipulate the minds of either Luke or Mara right? Affecting force users with telepathy is a far more difficult task then affecting non force users and someone of Yoda's power is likely impossible to affect with it.Just thought I'd address one of the points in your post I found a bit odd.
Neither Luke Skywalker and nor Jacen Solo turned out be impossible to dominate through Telepathy.
And none of the Telepaths measured up to Valkorion in showings. Lord Nyax was the closest.
You might be surprised to learn I actually read the enirety of that page.
Your argument is based around Vitiate being a superior telepath to Nyax and Unuthul because he has better showings then them but when taking into account their ability to affect Luke Skywalker and Jacen Solo that's simply not the case. If we were measuring potency by scale then even c'baoth might rival them but given his lack of effectiveness against a much less powerful/knowledgable Luke Skywalker and Mara Jade that's simply not the case. While Vitiate has feats of affecting the minds of force users non are on the level of Luke. While I could see Vitiate breaking Yoda's mind after thousands upon thousands of years with the aid of nexuses and the Dread Lords as he had with Revan I can't see it having any practical effect on Yoda in the midst of combat other then to serve as a distraction.
Originally posted by Syndicate
You might be surprised to learn I actually read the enirety of that page.Your argument is based around Vitiate being a superior telepath to Nyax and Unuthul because he has better showings then them but when taking into account their ability to affect Luke Skywalker and Jacen Solo that's simply not the case. If we were measuring potency by scale then even c'baoth might rival them but given his lack of effectiveness against a much less powerful/knowledgable Luke Skywalker and Mara Jade that's simply not the case. While Vitiate has feats of affecting the minds of force users non are on the level of Luke. While I could see Vitiate breaking Yoda's mind after thousands upon thousands of years with the aid of nexuses and the Dread Lords as he had with Revan I can't see it having any practical effect on Yoda in the midst of combat other then to serve as a distraction.
Originally posted by NewGuy01
Will the day ever come that you and DMB stop lying about this?
That's right, not for months if not over a year because of the thing Ant got from Drew.
That's like when you and Carthage were accusing me of holding Bane above Yoda on here when I've had Yoda>Bane for the entirety of my time on KMC.
Don't pretend I hold opinions that I don't actually hold, especially when I'm not even part of the conversation you're giving me shit in.