That doesn't change the fact that he and Hillary were practically the parents of ISIS or that everytime an Islamic terrorist killed innocent people that Obama and his supporters would deflect to so-called "Christians" doing bad things in the past.
I will still never forget how after ISIS did some horrible shit (iirc, it was after they burned that foreign pilot alive in a cage and put it on the internet) he actually had the nerve to deflect from it by lecturing Christians about the Crusades lmao.
It also doesn't change the fact that Obama made that horrible "deal" with Iran (the largest state sponsor of Islamic terrorism) by giving them billions of dollars. Fortunately, our great president Trump tore that shitty deal up.
Originally posted by Blakemore
I love how "the right" are jumping on Adam and promoting anti-Obama rhetoric claiming "the left" are islamic terrorist sympathisers yet ignoring the point he made that Obama killed Bin Laden.
Far as I've seen, most reasonable people on both sides credit Obama.
Some may argue he didn't do it alone, or without a lot of work from past administrations, but that would apply if it was anyone else who got the kill. The fact is, 4-8 years simply isn't long enough to make things happen, and requires a lot of ground work from other admins.
But it was his watch and his kill, no question about that.
If you are gonna give Obama the credit for killing Bin Laden instead of the SEALs themselves then you also have to give Trump credit for taking out notable terrorists as well and pretty much single-handedly defeating ISIS as well.
Under Obama's administration ISIS was running roughshod throughout the ME. Obama kept calling them the JV team even though they just kept gaining more territory. Trump stopped their asses cold though.
Originally posted by eThneoLgrRnaeIslamic State was first formed in 1999. This is due to the gulf war (Bush) and the republicans restrictions of Clinton's privileges after the impeachment saying he was quote "obsessed with Bin Laden".
That doesn't change the fact that he and Hillary were practically the parents of ISIS or that everytime an Islamic terrorist killed innocent people that Obama and his supporters would deflect to so-called "Christians" doing bad things in the past.I will still never forget how after ISIS did some horrible shit (iirc, it was after they burned that foreign pilot alive in a cage and put it on the internet) he actually had the nerve to deflect from it by lecturing Christians about the Crusades lmao.
It also doesn't change the fact that Obama made that horrible "deal" with Iran (the largest state sponsor of Islamic terrorism) by giving them billions of dollars. Fortunately, our great president Trump tore that shitty deal up.
Just shut the **** up.
Originally posted by eThneoLgrRnaeFor earliest Christians you mean the Syrian and Egyptian Orthodox... I wonder if any posters here apart from myself have visited Coptic Cairo... Ah, Miaphysites! Early Christianity is very funny, to be honest, Christianity post AD451 and the Council of Chalcedon is still pretty funny. But you guys are free to believe the stuff you believe in as long as it doesn't influence politics etc. Old style orthodox Christians look like Jews and Muslims and believe all sorts of weird and wonderful things, not unlike Evangelical Christians today... I find the weaponizing of Christianity by the far right almost as sad as the behaviour of Islamic extremists.
I would say the majority of Bible-believing Christian fundamentalists are on the right which is what the earliest Christians actually were. Most of the so-called "Christians" on the left are part of that "progressive Christianity" crap.They believe in stuff that clearly contradicts the Bible like darwinian evolutionary nonsense, the big bang, billions of years, etc, and they support anti-Christian crap like gay marriage, socialism, anti-self-defense (anti-2nd amendment), and worst of all, abortion.
Many of them don't actually believe that the Bible is infallible or the inspired Word of God. They just view it as a "good book" with "some good advice" in it. Many of them probably also think Jesus was just a very wise, enlightened man and not actually the Son of God or divine in any way.
This is Interesting
However, back to topic, yeah this murderer was a scumbag and no loss to the world.
Originally posted by cdtmI know, Bush's invasion wasn't just Saddam's regime but the insurgency in Iraq as well. The whole "believed to be linked with Al-Qaeda" was referring to the support of the original ISIL in 1999 that I mentioned earlier. Bin Laden was a key leader and Clinton could have stopped him, but the Republican congress voted to restrict government power.
Far as I've seen, most reasonable people on both sides credit Obama.Some may argue he didn't do it alone, or without a lot of work from past administrations, but that would apply if it was anyone else who got the kill. The fact is, 4-8 years simply isn't long enough to make things happen, and requires a lot of ground work from other admins.
But it was his watch and his kill, no question about that.
PEACE-LOVING superpower USA dethroned competent/popular Islamic leader(s) and brought corrupt stooges to power in their place from time-to-time, established regional proxies (Iran under Shah regime vs. Iraq ; GCC vs. Iran under Khomeini regime), invaded and/or bombed seemingly stable Islamic countries back to the stone age (Iraq in 2003 ; Libya in 2011), and helped establish powerful Salafi Jihadi organizations - all to counter USSR back in the days of the Cold War.
https://www.npr.org/2019/01/31/690363402/how-the-cia-overthrew-irans-democracy-in-four-days
https://www.nytimes.com/1988/04/18/world/arming-afghan-guerrillas-a-huge-effort-led-by-us.html
https://digitalcommons.buffalostate.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1050&context=history_theses
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2018/03/18/profile-osama-bin-laden/
"The weapons were supplied by the Americans, the money by the Saudis." - Osama Bin Laden
Majority of those Salafi Jihadi groups regressed into Al-Qaeda Networks and when then one fine day 9/11 happened - an ugly incident which claimed the lives of thousands of innocents including about 500 Muslims in a span of minutes.
And now ISLAM is EVIL and to blame...
PEACE-LOVING superpower USA is the most God-fearing saintly nation on Earth and Americans have done no wrong like ever in history. The Americans only Fight good and just wars. Hypocrisy at its finest.
How many Muslims you American hypocrites have killed over the course of years? Any official count?
---
Shall I also expand on French neo-colonism which continues to this day in Africa?
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All those who look for every excuse to speak bad about ISLAM and Muslims - you guys should be ashamed of yourselves.
@Surtur
You in particular.
Freedom of Expression my foot.
Am I allowed to deny Holocaust and praise Hitler? Am I allowed to paint all Jews and Christians with the same brush?
Why you cannot respect religious sensitivities of others? Why you expect others to make peace with your filthy bullshit?
Do I get to claim Freedom of Expression after teaching you a lesson in ethics for real?
Sooner of later, Muslims will band together and THROW YOUR FORCES out from the Middle East.
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenDApparently, we're not allowed to praise Hitler.
PEACE-LOVING superpower USA dethroned competent/popular Islamic leader(s) and brought corrupt stooges to power in their place from time-to-time, established regional proxies (Iran under Shah regime vs. Iraq ; GCC vs. Iran under Khomeini regime), invaded and/or bombed seemingly stable Islamic countries back to the stone age (Iraq in 2003 ; Libya in 2011), and helped establish powerful Salafi Jihadi organizations - all to counter USSR back in the days of the Cold War.https://www.npr.org/2019/01/31/690363402/how-the-cia-overthrew-irans-democracy-in-four-days
https://www.nytimes.com/1988/04/18/world/arming-afghan-guerrillas-a-huge-effort-led-by-us.html
https://digitalcommons.buffalostate.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1050&context=history_theses
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2018/03/18/profile-osama-bin-laden/
"The weapons were supplied by the Americans, the money by the Saudis." - Osama Bin Laden
Majority of those Salafi Jihadi groups regressed into Al-Qaeda Networks and when then one fine day 9/11 happened - an ugly incident which claimed the lives of thousands of innocents including about 500 Muslims in a span of minutes.
And now ISLAM is EVIL and to blame...
PEACE-LOVING superpower USA is the most God-fearing saintly nation on Earth and Americans have done no wrong like ever in history. The Americans only Fight good and just wars. Hypocrisy at its finest.
How many Muslims you American hypocrites have killed over the course of years? Any official count?
---
Shall I also expand on French neo-colonism which continues to this day in Africa?
---
All those who look for every excuse to speak bad about ISLAM and Muslims - you guys should be ashamed of yourselves.
@Surtur
You in particular.
Freedom of Expression my foot.
Am I allowed to deny Holocaust and praise Hitler? Am I allowed to paint all Jews and Christians with the same brush?
Why you cannot respect religious sensitivities of others? Why you expect others to make peace with your filthy bullshit?
Do I get to claim Freedom of Expression after teaching you a lesson in ethics for real?
Sooner of later, Muslims will band together and THROW YOUR FORCES out from the Middle East.
Wow, looks like someone has their panties in a bunch over people rightly calling out what a shitty religion Islam is.
No one has ever said America has never done any wrong, ffs, and pretty sure no one is stupid enough to call America a "saintly nation " lol. On the contrary, we are the opposite of a saintly nation.
We kill more unborn babies than any other nation in the world if I'm not mistaken and we are easily the biggest manufacturer and seller of pornographic material. We are constantly glorifying violence and sex with our movies, songs,and other things. We are far from being a saintly nation. But we aren't all bad either. China and North Korea both have done much worse things and so have many of those muslim countries you are so stubbornly defending.
Originally posted by eThneoLgrRnae
Wow, looks like someone has their panties in a bunch over people rightly calling out what a shitty religion Islam is.No one has ever said America has never done any wrong, ffs, and pretty sure no one is stupid enough to call America a "saintly nation " lol. On the contrary, we are the opposite of a saintly nation.
We kill more unborn babies than any other nation in the world if I'm not mistaken and we are easily the biggest manufacturer and seller of pornographic material. We are far from being a saintly nation. But we aren't all bad either. China and North Korea both have done much worse things and so have many of those muslim countries you are so stubbornly defending.
The incident in question can be discussed with maturity but nope - some people find it fashionable to blame/disrespect Islam for every murder in which a Muslim is involved. These people dare to pretend to have a HIGH MORAL GROUND over Muslims while they belong to countries which have killed and corrupted on unprecedented scale.
I would say that the Cold War eroded much of the moral fabric of Muslims over the course of years - courtesy of unhelpful interventions from USSR and USA.
I do not blame Christianity for every murder in which a Christian is involved. In similar vein, I do not blame Judaism for every murder in which a jew is involved.
Every religion is different and sentiments vary accordingly.
A teacher should know better most of all.
Of-course, I see good in American. I have seen your posts as well - you give the vibe of being a good orthodox Christian. WE can be friends in real life if WE ever meet.
Chinese have killed more Chinese than any other (Mao for example).
North Korea? How many countries North Korea have invaded and bombed to stone age over the course of years? Come on now.
Compared to USA, North Korea is indeed a saint.
Originally posted by Blakemore
I love how "the right" are jumping on Adam and promoting anti-Obama rhetoric claiming "the left" are islamic terrorist sympathisers yet ignoring the point he made that Obama killed Bin Laden.
One act doesn't negate a pattern of behavior. Would you feel it is okay to say Trump is not racist because one time he pardoned a black woman?
Originally posted by Surturpersonally im pro death penalty but it actually costs a shit ton more to sentence someone to death and go thru the entire process to completion than to keep them in prison for life.
Does France have the death penalty? If not, putting him down was the best thing.Because 3 square meals a day paid for by tax payers for the next 60 years is also too good for this piece of shit.
"It seems like common sense that it’s cheaper to execute someone than to house, feed and take care of them for the rest of their natural life. But there are a lot of unavoidable costs that make a death sentence far more expensive than a sentence of life without parole.
Most of these costs result from the unique status of the death penalty within the US justice system. Because it’s the only truly irreversible form of punishment, the Constitution requires a long and complex judicial process for capital cases, including several levels of mandatory review after a death sentence is issued. The appeals process takes decades to complete."
"Studies of the California death penalty system, the largest in the US, have revealed that a death sentence costs at least 18 times as much as a sentence of life without parole would cost."
It makes me wonder how freaking much do these appellate judges make that makes the process of hearing these cases cost up to 18x more than it would to feed/cloth/house these people for their entire lives.
Forgot to add link for quotes and couldn't edit it in.
Originally posted by Surtur
One act doesn't negate a pattern of behavior. Would you feel it is okay to say Trump is not racist because one time he pardoned a black woman?
Your bigotry against Muslims is apparent in your posting record. Your absolute lack of understanding of Islam is also glaringly apparent in your posting record.
You have no moral high ground or leg to stand upon for judging Muslims given the sheer amount of hypocrisy, blatant disregard of human lives, and interventionist Foreign Policy of USA which helped prepare extremist Salafi Jihadi forces which your country ended-up fighting eventually.
You are fishing for trouble with your lengthy history of hate speech directed towards Islam and Muslims. My advice is to keep your bigotry to yourself.
Originally posted by cdtm
Try living there.
North Korea have an authoritative regime but it must have considerable domestic support base to stand upon. Would it?
North Korean defectors might be exaggerating - there is not a country in this world where TOTALITY of the population will be happy with internal developments.
In this very forum, you see Americans having political arguments and differences which in turn shape the outcome of American Presidential Elections (Democrats versus Republicans) from time-to-time.
People are not born with political preferences - they become accustomed to the political ideals of the state of which they are a part of.
You might find North Korea really bad but do you know much about it while not ever having the opportunity to experience its environment firsthand and having conversations with locals?
Americans continue to impose heavy sanctions on North Korea which in turn affect living standards of people there.