1 marka ragnus (leader of the ancient sith)
2 Naga Sadow
3 adjunta pall
4 Freedon nag
(reason "we are as children when wielding the force in comparrison to these ancient sith" - Darth Trayer (as close to quote as i can recall, its been awhile)
5 Darth Revan (three jedi and the council combined could not defeat Revan completely, He was the best of that era, both in command of the force and a lightsabre)
6 The Outcast (cant remember real name or if had one)
8 Bastilla (if revan falls and is counted as a sith so does she)
9 Darth Trayer (yes she helped to train both revan and the outcast but both surpassed her in ability.)
8 darth sidious
9 Malak
10 Lord Vader (as anakin defeated dooku so would be more powerful than tyrannus, though vader is nowhere near as powerful as he could have been if not crippled early on by obi wan, if he hadn't been would prob be up with bastilla).
Force push is not undefendable, the fight between obiwan and anakin shows that, yes yhey're both eventually thrown apart from being so evenly matched, but there is a period where nothing happens cause their both evenly matched. eventually the push builds between them so much their pushed apart. if there was no defense there would have been no struggle of force powers.
If someone is caught unawares, Jedi or not, then they may not be able to defend in time. How do you think the clones defeated all the Jedi in Order 66 in ROTS?
I very much doubt it, Push has been blocked. Nihilus control over the force and his force powers were not heavily superior to Kreia. If so he would have taken out the people with the Exile and the Exile using the force. He would not have needed to eat. (of course it is possible that Nihilus just ate and became more powerful, but then again makes it very hard to judge him for his real power) Pushes can also be blocked in some games or by a lightsaber probably.
Nihilus overpowering Kreia the all powerful Kreia with the force is just unlikely. Especially because he gets more powerful by draining the force. To judge Nihilus his real strength is damned hard even when you know if he used the technique or not. Now its an assumption to say he didn't, when its more likely he did because of what Kreia said. Its another assumption to make that he is that powerful naturally when there is absolutely no evidence for it... Its just unlikely.
Registered: Feb 2005
Location: Hiding from zombies
I very much doubt it, Push has been blocked.
Push can be blocked only by people with enough force power and mastery to overcome their opponent.
Nihilus control over the force and his force powers were not heavily superior to Kreia.
Where's the evidence of this?
If so he would have taken out the people with the Exile and the Exile using the force.
Hm. This is true. If the Exile and friends beat Nihilus, why couldn't Traya? Perhaps she's grown in strength, while he was weakened from trying to feed on the Exile. If you recall, initially he freezes everyone with a wave of his hand and tries to feed off of the Exile, which weakens his power.
He would not have needed to eat. (of course it is possible that Nihilus just ate and became more powerful, but then again makes it very hard to judge him for his real power)
Nihilus devours the Force because of his nature, Fishy. It's insatiable.
Pushes can also be blocked in some games or by a lightsaber probably.
Are you kidding me? What do game mechanics have to do with anything, or a lightsaber?
Nihilus overpowering Kreia the all powerful Kreia with the force is just unlikely.
But it happened, in an FMV.
Especially because he gets more powerful by draining the force.
I don't think he neccessarily gains power by draining the Force, since he's obviously starving every time he goes and eats. It barely sustains him.
To judge Nihilus his real strength is damned hard even when you know if he used the technique or not.
Traya used the technique on the jedi masters. Did you see Nihilus using it on her? No. You don't. And it likely didn't happen before he force pushed her into a wall.
Now its an assumption to say he didn't, when its more likely he did because of what Kreia said.
No, it's an UNSUPPORTED assumption to say he did before he pwned her with the force, since it's not shown happening and they just barely meet at the Core, where she draws her lightsaber. It's a REASONABLE assumption to say that Nihilus pwned Traya with the force push, since he obviously did. Adding anything else begs for proof. Occam's Razor, if you will.
Its another assumption to make that he is that powerful naturally when there is absolutely no evidence for it... Its just unlikely.
On the contrary, there's a great deal of evidence to support that Nihilus WAS superior to Traya and Sion... especially since he pwned both without really trying.
Registered: Feb 2005
Location: Hiding from zombies
Another thing, speaking on Traya's supposed being without the force: I doubt it happened at all.
She says that she was "cast down, stripped of her power." But this could mean being the overseer of the Academy, it doesn't not neccessarily mean she was stripped of the force. And seeing as the way she resparks the force in the exile (It is shown that he is gaining his powers through her) she is obviously not bereft of it. If Nihilus had drained her, she would be dead. Obviously, he didn't do that. And when Kreia speaks about the loss of the force, she is describing everything that the Exile is feeling, which is understandable because they are force linked.
Push can be blocked only by people with enough force power and mastery to overcome their opponent.
Well Kreia sure has some great force powers..
Where's the evidence of this?
Primarily the fact that he didn't pwn anybody without using his ability and the fact that he didn't pwn the Exile and his friends using the force.
Hm. This is true. If the Exile and friends beat Nihilus, why couldn't Traya? Perhaps she's grown in strength, while he was weakened from trying to feed on the Exile. If you recall, initially he freezes everyone with a wave of his hand and tries to feed off of the Exile, which weakens his power.
This is possible... But that brings forward a few questions.
If he really is powerful enough with the force to pwn Kreia without eating then why would he try to eat the Exile? Surely he did not think he was more powerful, he did not notice him as a wound in the force either. Otherwise he would not have tried to feed. He's not stupid. Stupid people don't WTFPwn the Jedi when he shouldn't even know about them being there.
So why would he have done that against the Exile and not Kreia?
Nihilus devours the Force because of his nature, Fishy. It's insatiable.
Which brings me to another point... Why would he not eat? She has the power he knows it. She is going to be a nice meal. Why in heavens name would he refuse to eat it?
Are you kidding me? What do game mechanics have to do with anything, or a lightsaber?
Nothing much just to state push is blockable..
I don't think he neccessarily gains power by draining the Force, since he's obviously starving every time he goes and eats. It barely sustains him.
Whether or not it makes him more powerful is indeed hard to judge, fact is however it weakens his opponents or simply outright kills them. Meaning he is very powerful with the technique. if you eat somebody his force and then use a push you could very well throw them away because they are to weak to block.
Traya used the technique on the jedi masters. Did you see Nihilus using it on her? No. You don't. And it likely didn't happen before he force pushed her into a wall.
Possible but again the question arises why does Kreia say what she says right there and then? Why does she do what she does there and then, and more importantly why the hell didn't Nihilus beat the Exile. The exile does not have the power to defeat Kreia and you know it, so how could he have won? Also who is to say the technique always does that. Perhaps that only happens when it kills, actually thats likely. Because the Exile constantly eats from his friends and from Kreia and you don't see it being done either.
No, it's an UNSUPPORTED assumption to say he did before he pwned her with the force, since it's not shown happening and they just barely meet at the Core, where she draws her lightsaber. It's a REASONABLE assumption to say that Nihilus pwned Traya with the force push, since he obviously did. Adding anything else begs for proof. Occam's Razor, if you will.
Different oppinions on this apparantly, lets just drop the assumption bit and try to proof which one makes more sense.. Before we start debating about debating
on your second post.
Could be.. Could not be.. Hard to say, but I think it all really depends on the things in the first post, sorry for not going ino that any deeper have to run.
The Exile, was superior to all 3 sith lords at this time, which is why Kriea fled andSion returned to her, but Nihilus was arrogant and overconfident of his power, which could not beused on the Exile, which led to his downfall.
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Jan 12th, 2006 01:31 AM
