I believe cap can win this fight sometimes.
First of all, cap has hurt Hulk with a shield throw before. Had it been a shield attack of the non throwing kind (like a shield punch) then it would have hurt even worse. This is because there is more force and mass behind the attack than a simple throw. Now add 90times the force. Then the shield, due to its sharp edge, will most likely penetrate Hulk's skull either killing him or knocking him out. With normal strength, cap has pentrated through solid steel and hurt Hulk with just shield throws. Add the fact of a shield punch attack (which is a lot stronger than a shield throw) with 90 times more force and with the possibility that cap can strike first then cap now has a chance.
Hulk has never survived (unconscienceness or death) anything of the magnitude of getting his head rammed by an unbreakable sharp edge powered by a class 100 being. Remember Hulk's head is not his body. This is his weakess part. Hulk has been knocked out many many times just by the blunt fist force (not sharp either) of many super strong foes.
Add in the sharp edge of the shield supplied by class 100 power and Hulk is a gonner (or at least unconscience).
Mjolnir isn't sharp like cap's shield. So that point is invalid.
Yes really, how many times has hulk been beaten by hits to the head?
How many times have he been beaten by hits to the body? I rest my case.
Again, you are comparing blunt force with sharp edge force. A huge difference. No comparison. Why take a good look at wolverine for example. Not to say that cap's shield is as sharp. But you get the point.
It’s not really valid when you remember that Mjolnir >>>>> Shield and Thor >>>>>> Batsuit.
He’s taken blows to the head several times against heavy hitters. Drax, Hercules, Thor, etc, they all have knocked him on his noggin before. The only ones who haven’t are mostly those who couldn’t reach his head.
You brought up how many times he’s been knocked out when hit on the head than when hit on the body as if his head was a real weakness.
And it’s much simpler to compare the two when one realizes the vast difference in strength and power between Thor/Mjolnir and Cap/Shield. The shield’s not even that sharp or it would have cut several walls rather than bounce off them when ever he threw it.
1. That is just plain dumb. You lack good reasoning skills my friend.
How can hitting someone with a blunt object be greater than hitting them with a sharp object if both are indestructible? If cap with normal strength can do some damage to Hulk with shield how much more you think he could do with the class 100 batsuit? cap's shield punch to hulk's head with class 100 batsuit>>>> wolverine claw punch to hulk's head>>>>>hulk's head
2. Who cares? They are have blunt force. Sharp force is mega times more damaging.
3. I said his head is the weakess part of his body. If you disagree then explain to us then what is the weakess part of hulk's body.
4. Cap definitely had the ability to throw the shield to cut as well as to be blunt (to bounce off and knock out). Nevertheless, he uses it as a hand weapon here. Thus no bouncing off but straight penetration.
If the guy with the blunt object is strong enough to lift the Midgard Serpent. Frankly, I’d rather take a stabbing from Cap than a whack to the head from Thor.
This “damage” you refer to is making Hulk wince and yell, “Aarrgghh!”
Not really significant at all. And this was against Prof. Hulk, whose durability isn’t as efficient as Savage Hulk’s.
Yeah, that makes sense…
He’s also broken a Dog of War biting him with “enough force to crush adamantium.” I’d like to see Cap with the Batsuit claim that kind of power.
How the hell should I know?
…Which will heal instantly. This will also probably result in Cap losing his shield.
I love Cap. But lets face it, that suit is not enough of an edge to knock Hulk unconscious at all. Superman was indeed weakened in his fight with Batman. Rainforest is a great amount of energy, but Batman explicitly observes that he is not at full power and that he isn't even strong enough to dodge stinger missiles. Normal Superman would just go at supersonic speeds and outrun em. Batman says this in a thought caption.
Even if Hulk were at a calm 70-100 ton strength capacity and Cap had one shot of MAYBE knocking him unconscious, that suit does not give him enough power to do so. A one in a million chance, Cap would maybe have enough sense to overload the arm and hip servos with enough energy feed from the city and chuck that shield at hypervelocity levels and hope to split open Hulk's skull. Afterwards, maybe Cap would dig into his brains and match would be over, since Hulk would have to take a few minutes sprawled on the ground twitching, to heal himself. I'd call that a win for Cap. But it's a longshot at best.
Cap's shield has hurt Hulk with just a throw. It has sliced all the way through thick steel several times with just plain throws. A double armed shield ram is at least a 100times stronger than a shield throw. If normal cap uses all his might and doublearm rams that shield in Hulk's head then Hulk's skull is going be cut while the shield being stuck. If 100x stronger batsuit cap rams the shield into Hulk's head with all his might then possibly Hulk's head with be split in two.
I forgot my point I think it was that the Hulk does not have enhanced reflexes.
Hell no! Everytime you bring this point up "I will bring you down, I will bring you down to Chinatown." You keep complaining about how Cap has the ability to fight superhumans when:
1. He is prescribed to do this:
Cap wiki
He is extremely skilled in hand-to-hand combat, sometimes taking on and defeating foes whose strength, size, or superpowers greatly exceed his. In the comics, he is regarded by other skilled fighters as one of the best hand-to-hand combatants in the Marvel Universe.
2. As mentioned before martial arts is a skill that humans can learn that can give them the equivalent of super powers. Others skills are tech know how and magic. What was you're response? Its taken for granted that supernatural world exists? So ok if everybody had weak magic would there be a supernatural world? No.
We can also say that there is sci-fi world. Why is that? Again the skill level for technology is increased.
There is a martial arts world in the sense that you have a whole host of characters that can do things far beyond the real world.
3. If Mantis can knockout Thor, Cap can damn well fight Spiderman and fight 75 toners. Do you also realise the significance of this is? This means that a human being with enough training can beat a god. The question you have to ask yourself is have they had enough training.
I dont care you can ignore me, but if you bring it up again i'll keep saying the same stuff.
Yes it is. You keep complaing about Cap's jobber aura when its the rules for human beings to be able to fight superhumans. I dont like the fact that they have made Wolverine 200 years old but its fact.
Well ok i'll forget that.
Not having it. Hulk is not prescribed to have peak human or enhanced reflexes. Im aware that the comics can contradict the bio like classic powerman having 3ton strength, but the Hulk does not have enough showings to say he has peak, enhanced or superhuman reflexes. More often than not he is shown to be slower then Cap and Cap has fought the Hulk before in both cases Cap was able to use his agility to dodge him.
Its bad writing Cap is not prescribed to have the ability to catch a missle with his shield but sometimes you see him doing stuff like that.
The Hulk is not prescribed to have superhuman reflexes but sometimes you see him catching a plane its PIS. Cap can blitz the Hulk.
So when he survived this punishment he was mad right? How long had he been fighting for? The fact of the matter is when the bell rings Cap will be able to hit the Hulk before the Hulk can hit him. That can be in less than a second. The Hulk needs time to get mad and something tells me that on base level The Hulk does not have strength of a rainforest half the size of the US.
Furthermore that suit Cap is wearing was able to channel the whole of Gotham's electricity. That suit is class 100 and not a low one either.
__________________ Watch what people are cynical about, and one can often discover what they lack.
- General George Patton Jr
Last edited by Deadline on Oct 18th, 2006 at 12:47 PM
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Which he arguably does.
I already told you why that doesn't count. It's always been Marvel's intention to mimic the real worlds physics as much as possible. Also, technology ain't physics. Cap can hang with non-speedsters. He can hang with Hulk as long as he avoids getting hit and comes up with a thorough plan to defeat him. However, Spiderman(to name someone) is an entirely different matter. Captain cannot hang Spiderman if the latter doesn't job for the sake of the plot. I know he can in the Marvel world, I never denied this. But you know, that's EXACTLY the problem. Marvel didn't think this through. They are writing stories with the characters and their status in mind, not their actual abilities.
I would also like to remind you that forum fights aren't quite the same as comic fights.
That's ridiculous. First of all, there's absolutely no telling which one of them is right, since comic books are so widely inconsistent(different writers, different interpretations, commercial pressure, image etc.). No ABC-logic, please! And no, Marvel humans cannot train themselves enough to beat gods. It may seem that way because of the virtually uncontrollable and inconsistent writing of hundreds of writers over the years, but if you actually were to ask Marvel directly, they'd most likely agree with me. The notion of a normal human beating a god(hyperbole or not) is just plain idiotic. It doesn't work that way, not even in the Marvel world. But yes, after all these years of comics and countless plots with various outcomes, your theory holds as much Merritt as any other. It just doesn't make sense.
I'd have to say, though, that magic is a different beast. Since magic actually exists in the Marvel universe, it can be taught and learned. In our world, real magic doesn't exist. Well, at least I don't actively believe it does. The point I (and others!) have been trying to make is that there would be no point in maintaining the physical hierarchy of the real world if humans could somehow become superhuman just by training. I mean, what would supernatural powers even mean if there's no frame of reference from the real world? What would, for example, Spidey's abilities even mean in a comic world that doesn't have its base in real physics? Nobody would be impressed, which was the point of it all: to impress the reader by making direct comparisons to reality.
Suspension of disbelief allows us to swallow the stuff you're talking about in a comic or two, but not consistently. That's why this has always annoyed me.
No. I didn't say they can't fight Superhumans at all. A plodding Powerhouse can be beaten with tactics strategy. But that's not quite the same as beating him physically, which shouldn't be possible.
And yes, Cap has a jobber aura.
I'm saying it may not necessarily be his speed alone, but his sense of timing, direction and aim. That's a pretty deadly combination. Which is undeniably superhuman. But yes, the Hulk has proved himself to be very swift and quick.
Btw, the Hulk catching a plane(or Silver Surfer and Quicksilver) isn't any more PISy than most of Captain's outrageous feats. Heck, for all we know the Hulk is actually underwritten when facing characters like Captain. Probably not, though. But still, Cap's feats are crippled by the fact that they are performed by someone who's supposed to lack true superhuman powers. Imo, that makes it worse.
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Oct 17th, 2006 09:11 AM
