But if there'd been 30 seconds of more beating in there, when he was already getting significant damage in a fair fight, then his situation would've been quite a bit worse. It would've required a huge lucky break to turn things around, something hard to get against a foe of her skill.
Also, on the Healing Factor thing- if there's a fight between Logan and Creed, and it ends with Logan having his throat and guts torn out and Creed walks away, then that's a Creed win.
If it continues, there's every sign the lead's going to expand before Logan gets a chance to recover.
Heck, didn't Logan pretty much count Creed's yearly beatings as losses for that exact reason?
Even with a healing factor, one side can have a sizable edge.
Yes, she was revived by getting warm. And impact wouldn't have revived her if that hadn't? Or just a few more seconds? If you're out deep, warmth does not wake you up.
Uh, she threw it head-on while he was looking at her. He might not have expected her to do that attack since it looked like she was paying attention to Max, but catching an opponent off-guard with a sudden attack is part of battle.
Also, I'll note he dodged a lasso throw earlier, so it's not like he was ignoring the weapons. There was nothing preventing defense there except surprise.
Likewise.
---
The way I phrase it is, they'll fight in a stalemate that'll degrade into Clark's favor based on his stats, unless one of them makes a mistake.
That time? It was Clark that made a mistake, and Diana won.
Another time? It could be Diana that makes a mistake, and Clark wins.
Or it could be neither, and again Clark wins.
So yea, he has the advantage. It's still impressive as heck to be able to roll the dice and have a chance to win, even if it is unreliable.
(And while Superman did some major damage before that point, so did Diana! Smashed his ears, hurt his ribs enough to get him to lay down for a bit and hold them in pain when he got up, etc.. It's not like it was a one-sided fight)
And finally, I'll make an additional note: Wonder Woman got a weapons upgrade after that fight. Magic lightning from her bracers. That's a tool that'd make things even dicier for Clark, and is of more minor benefit against Billy.
If you were suddenly given immense power, but didn't know the limits, wouldn't you be cautious?
As for Guy, he's egotistical and a bit delusional. You're talking about the same dude who wanted to prove who's boss to Batman, AFTER taking his Power Ring off.
Superman wasn't incapacitated, though, which is my point. He was holding his throat with one hand. That left freeze breath, heat vision and even his other hand free to engage her if need be.
And it still goes back to my original point where Diana didn't even seem to think she'd beaten him, hence her killing Maxwell Lord.
Agree 100%, as if Wonder Woman had beaten Superman with that throat slit, she wouldnt have then needed to turn her attention to Lord to kill him so that Supermans hold would be dropped. If that was a winning blow, she would simply have lassoed Lord up and ended this situation, but Superman wasnt out, he was delayed at best, so WW did the only thing she could do to stop Superman, that was kill Maxwell Lord. (and this is pretty much the best showing Ive ever seen WW have against Supes).
Actually, at first it was two hands, it only went to one hand after the neck-snap and he'd had 25 seconds to heal.
And if she knocks that hand away? Suddenly he's losing blood and is going to be in danger of passing out.
And he was in shock from the attack to begin with, leaving him open to an immediate follow-up.
And she'd already defended against HV and freeze breath, this time they were in close range so HtH is more likely, and last time they were in HtH, 45 seconds before, she dealt more blows than he did when he had two arms.
One of the main point, that was a significant part of the story, was sooner or later it'd restart unless Diana killed Superman or killed Lord or got killed, and simply beating him was pointless as long as Lord was alive.
That it was made clear that a normal victory was pointless doesn't mean the fight wasn't won by conventional standards. A boxer coming back for a rematch doesn't mean they didn't lose the first fight.
The very point was it was "Kill Max or Superman, or it's round 1 of however many rounds it takes for WW to die." Could be next round, could be the third one, but the result was inevitable.
Did both of you miss the part where Superman wasn't under control while Lord was lassoed once WW made him break it? (one of the lasso's powers)
Superman was in no danger of springing up and continuing the fight that minute.
The point was that the fight would resume eventually since the conditioning wouldn't go away while Lord lived, but she was in no danger right then and there.
Also-
That is exactly what she did.
Well, yes, I think "stand there while the opponent's busy trying to keep his throat from bleeding out" is hard to top
(Just kidding around- anyway, yea, she's got some stalemates, but I don't think anyone will disagree that Sacrifice is the best result she's gotten)
It flat-out says that the heat woke her back-up. And "reentry heat" is a lot more than "warmth." And the impact? Might have woken her up, might've hurt her more. People can be knocked back into consciousness, but it's not always the case. If it were, then we'd have a lot less KOs in any striking-based combat sport.
Yeah, and he thought he was fighting Doomsday. Who doesn't throw tiaras that can decapitate demigods. Fail.
That was BEFORE Diana had wrapped Max in the lasso. When he dodged the lasso, she states "What's Max making him see now?" A bit of a difference when Max's tied-up and focused on her with her hand on his throat
hahahahahah You do NOT want to bring-up her bashing his ears in. She sneaks-up on him, and bashes two very vulnerable areas with her BRACELETS and she still can't knock him out? That shows how inferior she is to him. That'd be like you sneaking-up behind someone and bashing them in the ears with 2 cast iron skillets and failing to KO him.
I haven't seen anything to convince me her lightning would make a significant difference with what Superman's endured before.
Wow, your reaching is certainly something, you might pull something in your body with that. You didn't post that non-existent scan of brother eye recording. Also if anybody is interested Absolute power didn't change anybody else other than superman and batman. Here is diana reminding uncle sam to his true form by lasso (please log in to view the image)(please log in to view the image)
Well, difference of opinion. She got behind him and made one of the strongest people on the planet scream in pain.
Also, that type of hit... doesn't render people unconscious anyway.
It blasted back a god and rendered an Ivo-made combat android into ash.
Bare minimum, it'd have made that attempt to throw her into the sun out of the question, as he'd be bugzapped the entire way up.
See, this is why PR and DTM and Delta are better debaters than you and actually worth debating. You jump immediately to gloating at the start of a debate, which is just silly. You don't know, you just assume.
It's the first page of OMAC #3, I'll get a scan shortly.
I think this, better than anything, is an argument against normal powers. And/or that Superman just being stronger than normal.
They beat GL, MM, etc. etc., even when the heroes knew they were coming and'd work together against them?
Normal Supes may be the strongest around, but not by that much, he can't really beat them all.
The bracelet ear bash thing reminds me, that comic had it where he had to "activate" his super hearing.
First and only time he's ever had to do that. By rights, he should have heard WW's heartbeat anyways while using super hearing, or heard her breathing, or even the air moving, even if she used her super speed....
Why not? Its not like other time travel stories. Not only superman and batman retained their memories, they were physically the same throughout the arc and after the arc concluded. Take example of bishop, he was the only guy who wasn't altered in AOA and thus he retained his memories and what he did in AOA is canon for him.
He just paused for a moment to listen and she struck. Keep in mind, she is superfast, she can move faster than sound, and she did just zip behind him when she wasn't there a moment before.
Doesn't mean everyone else wasn't different.
And actually, a lot of time travel stories were like that. See all of Booster Gold's for example.
And besides, doesn't time travel work differently in DC than it does in Marvel? Time travel doesn't automatically create alternate timelines, and thus non canon feats in time travel stories, right?
The words were something like "He's using his super hearing". He's ALWAYS using it, and focusing on it.. Otherwise, Jimmy's watch wouldn't be much use.
I wouldn't say he's always focusing on it. I'm pretty sure there's been other occasions he's stopped to listen more closely.
I think even involving Jimmy's watch. He's stop, pause, listen for a moment and say 'that's Jimmy's signal watch!" or that sort of thing. Picking out max details seems like a thing he focuses on.
Okay, you were right. But that hardly changes anything as we saw the slit throat didn't do much as he was still talking and he has fought with worse wounds like chest riddled with bullets and a kryptonite sword through heart. That and he went into shock everytime he was freed from max's control. He wasn't helpless, accept it and move on. He also didn't have any reason to attack as he was freed from max's control just after that attack.
No need for me to do that, you read the story. It wasn't and your view on it changes nothing.
KMC Community Forums
Aug 17th, 2012 08:04 AM
Never happened. 
my point exactly.
