Gender: Female Location: Giving dirty Mr Sparrow a sponge ba
LOL its ok..you can stick to em..I'll stick to mine.
In the commentary Johnny and the director said something like: "this is the best moment..its where we see Jack sparrow completely laid bare for who he really is, he has no hat..no boat" which means he is basically a nervous wreck without all of his closets possessions..they said this is the moment in the movie where we see the character at his LOWEST or something along those lines..he has NOTHING to cling onto to feel safe..except the rum.....for now and when that goes...OH MY GOD thats the end of it for him.... he turns into a complete bumbling and scared idiot..he is barley able to even get his words out properly
His actions in that scene are'nt just about not being able to drink the rum..its about not being able to escape reality through the means of something else...which is the bottom of a bottle..or in other cases with a prostitute or, by being on a boat or by wearing a hat...these things never keep you completely satisfied..they only work for a while..then you have to face reality again when they are gone...which is why Jack is so distraught when his saftey nets are gone..It means he HAS to face reality whether he likes it or not... and he REALLY doesn't want to face it..its clear...He seems to be terrified of it...he almost shoots her over it..if it was simply about not being able to drink rum then he wouldn't even consider pulling his gun out there..who would?
Last edited by LovelyOne on Aug 14th, 2006 at 09:12 PM
yah know, i think Jack goes to singapore for the food. i just had asian takeout, and man, it was good.
this is totally random, but i was thinking about Jack ripping off liz's corset in 1 so she could breath (which is totally hott by the way, that Jack is symbolically the one who frees her from her suffocating victorian lifestyle) and he mentions he learned how to do it in singapore... i think not so much from the corsets, but the crazy layers asian people wore then!!!! Im picturing that one scene from memiors of a geisha where the dude is ripping off her kimono and it takes him like 35 minutes to get through all the layers... hahahaha
Gender: Female Location: at the second star to the right
"It means he HAS to face reality whether he likes it or not... and he REALLY doesn't want to face it..its clear...He seems to be terrified of it...he almost shoots her over it..if it was simply about not being able to drink rum then he wouldn't even consider pulling his gun out there..who would?"-------LovelyOne
Yes, he does almost shoot her, and it's strangely hilarious. It was all he had left and she destroyed it. But I agree with Kate, that Jack does not necessarily "need" Liz. I think he is capable of finding happiness without taking on a lover. He seems to enjoy his life very much and only looks at the loneliness as a price to pay for it.
But I think the closeness he feels with her is playing with him. I don't think he's completely decided what he's going to do about her. That's pretty evident in how he reacts to her staying behind on the Pearl. He just stands there, not avoiding her, but not taking charge either. He lets her make the decision and then just goes with it, enjoying it of course, but letting her be the one to have made the choice.
While I would love for him to love her, and imho, her choice was the moment he realized he did love her, I can also him looking at is as just a nice moment shared between them and not feeling much if they say goodbye.
I think it's her friendship more than anything, but he is sorting out his feelings. We've pretty much all agreed he has them, but there's no telling what he's going to do about them.
Gender: Female Location: Giving dirty Mr Sparrow a sponge ba
Yes...It's only the middle of the story at the moment..we will see what happens later on in the next..It just seems as if jack has already made a huge step in development since movie 1..and it's all since Liz came into his life..people are saying they don't want him to change..he already HAS changed in movie 2 and it's because of Liz IMO and people don't even notice or care lol. they STILL love Jack sparrow for what he is and what he is becoming...
I think the audience wont really mind if his character makes another huge step in development with the next movie..he already has since movie 1 and it's only had positive reviews from critics and people viewing movie 2..So I think it's quite possible that he will accept love with Liz..
characters HAVE to develop if you WANT the story to be good...if they stayed the same as when we are first introduced to them then that is BAD script writing...what kind of GOOD character that you know of stays EXACTLY the same throughout an entire trilogy or series of books? NO GOOD character EVER does ..come on people be realistic
Last edited by LovelyOne on Aug 14th, 2006 at 10:08 PM
Gender: Female Location: Giving dirty Mr Sparrow a sponge ba
OK then..so he doesn't "need" Liz to be happy ..I very much doubt that he can fall back on his inanimate objects again because he is clearly showing no real care for them in this movie...they DONT make him feel safe and happy at all.. So if its not his objects making him smile what DOES make him smile...What is the one thing we see in this movie that shows Jack happy and smiling? ELIZABETH...the whole MOVIE was about him finding something else that makes him feel happy and safe instead of what USED to make him feel happy an safe in his life..characters HAVE to develop man...they NEED to move on to stay interesting..you cant keep them loving the same things forever their priorities NEED to change otherwise its bad script writing on the writers behalf...and Jacks priorities ARE changing.....In Jacks case..at the moment he's showing us that is IS Liz who he needs with him to feel secure and happy and not his material objects..its right on screen to see..to deny it is to deny what you see on screen...He's looking SLAP BANG at Liz when he's deciding to LEAVE the pearl..or perhaps even deciding go down fighting on it FOR HER..whilst she escapes..his priorities are CHANGING even if people like it or not..
Last edited by LovelyOne on Aug 15th, 2006 at 12:37 AM
they cut to that establishing shot for a reason. Everyone else is looking at Will...but look at who's not . Jack is staring right at Liz whilst deciding whats more important to him...what ULTIMATLEY makes him happiest? His pearl..his "carefree" way of life?..or her?
anyhoo I'm off to beddy byes xxx
Last edited by LovelyOne on Aug 15th, 2006 at 12:59 AM
Gender: Female Location: at the second star to the right
Ooh, it's hard to explain what I think. Obviously I didn't do a good job... I think Jack has fallen in love with Liz, and I think he realized it when she tied him to the mast. I think it was then he realized she makes him happy in a way no one else or nothing else can.
But here is what I am saying: if that had not happened, had their relationship never graduated past friendship and harmless flirting, I think she still would have made him happy. He doesn't have to fall in love with her to be happy, her friendship, her ability to see things in him others won't, is enough for him to be happy. I was just making the arguement you don't have to be married or be in love to have had a truly content, satisfying life.
Of course, all this changes when you do find love and you may be happy with just the friendship, but you feel you need more. This is where I think Jack is.
Gender: Female Location: Drinking rum with Jack in a dingy
Okay there is alot of stuff being said since I last posted...LovelyOne I agree somewhat with the material possession things....but I do think what makes Jack Sparrow so sexy and so appealing is that he accepts who he is and likes who he is...but yet at the same time - out of the blue- he finds himself attracted to this young girl - who seems so much wiser than her years, he can't help flirting with her...can he live without her, maybe...but I imagine that he will fight for her in POTC 3 - maybe Will will turn bad...who knows...all I know is that Jack and Liz must be together just as Scarlett and Rhett had to be together in Gone With the Wind (who by the way according to the story, Rhett was about 20 or so years older than Scarlett, maybe even 30).....
__________________ All my thanks to savvysparrowluv!
Gender: Female Location: Giving dirty Mr Sparrow a sponge ba
I think that had Jack not met her again in Tortuga he would have remained an incredibly confused and possibly even lonely perspm..
before he even met her in Tortuga his heart was telling him that he was confused and unhappy..this was before DAVY even intervened...when he went to see Tia she even knew the REAL reason why he was confused..it was because of Liz..she knew it was pointing to Liz...he had probably had enough of his life the way it was... he had his hat, his ship, his rum (his women) he was CAPTAIN and he STILL wasn't satisfied..thats why his compass went all funny on him..His heart was not happy he was looking for something MORE in life..and the answer was Liz when he found her...material possesions, prostitutes, booze just AINT satisying him any more...
Last edited by LovelyOne on Aug 15th, 2006 at 09:29 AM
Gender: Female Location: Giving dirty Mr Sparrow a sponge ba
I honestly don't remember Jack genuinely smiling and showing TRUE happiness with any other person except Liz in this movie..Every close scene they have together SHE is the one who makes him laugh, smile and BE HAPPY in a time of danger, confusion and loneliness in his life...SHE is what makes him happy..no one else in the film REALLY does..His hat, his rum, his ship, his crew ALL fail to make him happy...LIZ makes him smile again.....she is the answer to his problem...When he shows distrust to everyone else in the movie..he shows complete faith in Liz..he is at complete ease with her..he jokes, flirts, smiles and laughs with her...he was not happy with anything in this movie until SHE entered back into his life...
Last edited by LovelyOne on Aug 15th, 2006 at 10:06 AM
Gender: Female Location: Giving dirty Mr Sparrow a sponge ba
In movie 1 lovethemtigers do you REALLY think he is truly happy with himself and who he is? Or is it all just a front?
I mean he puts so much effort into building up this brave, happy pirate image of himself and then all you have to do is take away from him what resembles that image best and he fels insecure and incomplete..Then w and becomes a scared, lost and confused little child...and he can barley even get his words out properly to form a sentence, he's become TOO RELIANT on these things to make him feel happy and safe...Just like a person does with drugs and booze..
It's like snatching a child's security blanket away from them when they are already incredibly fragile...you can see it in the beach scene..Liz snatches the last safety net away from him and he goes into a tantrum like a little kid..he is AFRAID without all of his things that he clings to...which means he is not REALLY happy and secure as a person without all of his possessions there to cuddle up to.
you take them away from him in the next one..by this time his heart is telling him he wants Liz..and he's NOT REALLY all that concerned with losing his security blanket..is he? Jack is maturing as a character...
Last edited by LovelyOne on Aug 15th, 2006 at 10:38 AM
Gender: Female Location: Drinking rum with Jack in a dingy
I didn't say he was HAPPY - i think he has accepted who he is and is happy with that until he meets up with Liz....isn't it weired how so many lives are tunred upside down from that moment on...there was Will making swords, practicing three hours a day, there was Norrington becoming a Commodore and asking Elizabeth to be his bride, there was Elizabeth living her boring life in Port Royal...if Jack had never "Sailed" into Port Royal that day...and saved Elizabeth's Life (was he ever properly thanked for that - NO - they were planning to hang him anyway...),,,,she was either drowned....or settled for marrying Commodore Norrington because Poor Will wouldn've never got the guts to stand up and pronounce his love for Liz - and who does Will have to thank for that - JACK...JACK is at the center of everything....Then in POTC 2, Will and Liz are to be married and why is there wedding interupted (or has fate intervened?) because of JACK.....
whether or not Jack is a happy man or not...I just think he is happy go-lucky in One - but I think in Two he is running scared in the beginning....He obviously doesn't know what he wants anymore or does but is unable to claim it for his own..cough, Elizabeth, cough.....Jack has, or so he has thought, always wanted the Black Pearl/Freedom...now we are not so sure anymore...Jack is scared of the Kracken the entire movie, yet after that HOT Kiss from Liz - he is able to face the Kracken like a man..I LOVE IT...oh, and for those of you who don't think that kiss was anything but a trick to lock Jack up - then you need to watch it again and again - cuz if that is true - why is there really hot moment where she is so tempted to move in for a second kiss and Jack closes his eyes in anticipation but she decides to hold off - nose to nose, mouth to mouth - OMG that is an awesome shot.....gotta go
__________________ All my thanks to savvysparrowluv!
Gender: Female Location: Giving dirty Mr Sparrow a sponge ba
Jacks character cant just suddenly be unhappy with his life in movie 2..that doesn't make sense. It would be bad script writing...people don't just suddenly realise that their life isn't satisfying..it had to have been an issue (suppressed or surfaced) before hand in movie 1..and you can actually see that it is a slight issue in movie 1..he portrays this confident image but in reality he is actually not all that confident in himself. He hides behind his many objects that "prove" he is a great and happy pirate.
It wouldn't make sense to us that Liz is falling for Jack if we didn't already know from movie 1 that she had an obsession with pirates.
It wouldn't make sense to us that Will suddenly becomes engrossed with rescuing his father had we not seen how much he meant to him in movie 1.
So in turn it wouldn't make sense to us that Jack is only just to realise his life isn't satisfying to him the way it is.. had we not been shown that he really ISN'T all that confident and happy before hand..in movie 1.
...just how it works
Last edited by LovelyOne on Aug 15th, 2006 at 02:34 PM
Gender: Female Location: Giving dirty Mr Sparrow a sponge ba
The writers cant just throw something into movie 2 for example, "Jack wants more in life, he's not satisfied" with no prior knowledge that he has always had these feelings. If a character develops in a story it HAS to be backed up by history from movie 1..you cant just make people suddenly feel something with no background evidence to support these feelings..
So jack's character must have ALWAYS shown aspects of not being happy the way his life was in movie 1. He may have appeared cheerful and satisfied with a happy go lucky lifestyle but I doubt he really was..otherwise his feelings evolving for Liz in movie 2 cant be justified...It would be a huge mistake for the writers to add in this whole aspect of Jack's development without any background evidence of his character to explain WHY...
It happens with all the other characters and their feelings..so it has to happen With jack too he is no different..It's actually more important that his feelings in movie 2 are backed up by what happened in move 1 because he is the most important character to the franchise..
Last edited by LovelyOne on Aug 15th, 2006 at 03:09 PM
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Aug 14th, 2006 08:55 PM
All my thanks to savvysparrowluv!
