at full power the spectre has destroyed realities, merged with god, fought the arch angel, and weakened the nearly all powerful anti-monitor to defeat. he also pretty much beat the parallax with little effort. it's clearly obvious that the spectre wasn't at full power in dov. and even then, he was still beating everyone. i think he even said that he knew he would win. it was all some kind of drama to him.
anyway, this is all off topic. shazam would prolly just make thanos one of his marvel's and be done with it.
Am isnt all powerful and he only weakened him which means there are other beings out there he cant defeat on his own.
Parallax was also defeated in sinestro corps. Explain to why its obvious he was in a weakened state. Explain to me the reasons that lead you to believe this.
He also was frightened in space and said they almost destroyed him. If he could see the future why couldnt he see that what he was doing was wrong and that eclipso was obviously using him. He couldnt even tell that he wasnt destroying magic at all. I see lots of holes in your reasoning.
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AM is more powerful than almost any being in existence. He's considered the strongest being in the history of DCU. It took most of the remaining heroes and villains including Spectre himself to bring him down.
Parallax wasn't the insane superpower from Zero Hour. Mainly cause he hadn't absorbed the CPB. He was basically Ion level.
Spectre was operating outside his chosen area. He was working without the Presence's blessing, and most importantly, HE WAS NOT BOUND TO A MORTAL HOST! Without a mortal host, his judgement and power are greatly impaired. Plus, Eclipso used to have his job, so of course Spectre could be manipulated by him.
You keep trying to turn this into a low showing for Spectre and others, but in reality, it shows his power is vastly higher than almost anyone else's.
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of course the antimonitor isn't all powerful. only god is all powerful. he still managed to eat two realities and get thier power.
and parallax in the sinestro corps was not the same one that the spectre fought. so exactly how you are comparing them i don't understand. parallax with hal jordan's will power was a completely different beast than by itself or with anyone else at the helm.
as for the spectre not seeing that he was destroying magic, um that was the whole point of the story. the spectre with no host isn't tethered. it's not wound up right. it has a few screws lost. as far as i see it, different spectres mean different lvls of power and different skill sets. it's not different than donald blake thor and eric masterson thor and beta ray bill and who ever else has been thor. the same name or powers don't mean it's the same skill set, perception, use of said power, or even what ever. you get the point.
We have seen Parallax twice. We have to take into account both appearances and he was defeated twice and the second time it took a lot less than the Spectre.
Yes, the Spectre was confused during the whole story arc. So saying he could see the future and that he would win isnt a valid point. He made a claim and backed it but by no means can we imply he saw the future by this prediction.
The Spectres power itself therefore doesnt change but only its host and how he wants to use that power. Again I see no reason why the Spectre hostless was depowered. It was just goofy and needed a host to better direct it and steer it right.
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"of course the antimonitor isn't all powerful. only god is all powerful. he still managed to eat two realities and get thier power."
Infinite universes, not two. And he was getting ready to start that all over again when they dropped Warworld on him. and he was still weakened even before that.
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If Am is considered the most powerful being in history he has his limitations. He was the most powerful up until that point and saying he is still the most powerful of all time is entirely debatable I am sure.
The Am could be weakened and thus had limitations which to me means that the Spectre although extremely powerful himself also has limitations. He couldnt stop the Am on his own and needed the heroes help to defeat him.
The Spectre also got his ass handed to him by an amped Marvel. now this is by no means a low showing but it does indeed show us that the Spectre can have his ass kicked and pretty handily.
All this proves is at Parallax's most powerful he in under Spectre still which is still below imo amped Marvel and Am.
working without the Presences blessing didnt take away his powers and he still leveled the entire dcu of magic. It isnt like his powers were cut off.
Spectre without a host is easily duped is all this proves.
He isnt even close imo. He could be weakened enough to be killed by Superman. So thus you could do damage to him and its not as if he was backed up an infinite power source than by say the ig. The ig user could never be killed by a common hero. In short the ig user could only be defeated by someone more powerful as you couldnt do overall damage and weaken an ig user as you could with the Am.
Why is there the reasoning that Shazam losing to Spectre during crisis means that Shazam > Celestials? I'm sure we all agree that Spectre during that arc was either jobbing (if you go the route that believes that he was at FP) or he was depowered, but to an unknown extent, because he was not an agent of the Presence during that arc. I would say the second is more logical.
What that means is that we have two characters, AM and DoV spectre, whose power levels are effectively judged by what they did against each other. The reasoning is simple. AM may have trounced all those heroes, but the culmination of all the heroes is still insignificant next to his feats against the spectre. DoV spectre had his battles against Shazam and CM, but the latter was only sigificant with the backing of all the channeled magic. To take two characters whose only main show of power comes in this story arc and drawing a conclusion from how they did against each other is simply difficult to swallow.
Arguments for Shazam are relevant here, but that battle against the spectre should not be the only thing discussed.
until shazam or the current marvel has proven other wise and got some seat time in the comics and proved he can do some amazing feats.
yes id have to go with odin.
the only real feat shazam acomplished was the specter battle lasting more then 5 seconds to even a weakend specter was awsome.
now notice i as a Dc fan did mention the specter was in a weakend state so there is no reason to reply to my comment .....oh...oh....oh but he was in a weakend state =)
that small battle alone tells me that shazam would put up a hell of a fight against odin winning or not.
Yep would have to agree with you i think he could have done just as good if not better then shazam. Never the less he would have died in the fight. Odin aint beating a depowered version of the specter.
Just goes to show you how powerful the weaker versions of the specter are. And yep will have to agree with you again. There are ways to beat the specter under certian circumstances.
He did this severly underpowered.
By the end of the fight the specter was in better shape then cap was.
All im saying is dont try to play down that particular fight with Marvel and the specter. His weaker version did battle and in my opinion,even though it was a stalemate. He battled marvel and the entire D.C.'s universe's magic users. And was the last one standing
He was in better shape because Captain Marvel lost his amp. The Spectre couldnt even put down a regular Captain Marvel after this fight because of the damage that Marvel did to him before he lost his amp.
Then he was carted away by Eclipso till he could recover. Again if he didnt lose his amp Spectre would have been destroyed.
Agreed. Thanos best feat was living long enough against Odin (who wasn't going all out at all) until the fight was stopped.
He won't have that luck against the old wizard.
Shazam ftw.
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Last edited by Avlon on May 10th, 2008 at 06:26 PM
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