So basically, Adam will stand around waiting for Thor to hit him for what would feel like almost 20 minutes, since he has nanosecond reflexes and thor is at best microsecond reflexes or so at best based on some one-off statement from decades ago.
Homing attacks, massive storms, etc.? And the fact that Thor's shown no trouble hitting people like Hyperion, Gladiator, Sentry, etc. Unless you think they all jobbed to Thor or Thor being able to hit them is PIS?
Why would Adam willingly stand in place and wait for what would feel like 10 to 20+ minutes to him for Thor to initiate a single attack?
Again, you guys rarely seem to understand the issue of speed thoroughly in debates, or, just gloss it over.
Adam is on the nanosecond reflexes level here, and if 1 nanosecond feel like to him what 1 second feels like to us (for simplicities' sake), that means Thor making a counter strike that takes 1 microsecond, is going to literally feel like 16 to 17 minutes to Black Adam. Because 1 microsecond is 1000 nanoseconds.
And this isn't even from low balling Thor either. This is me acknowledging the most clear cut, and possibly best attribution of speed (statement or feat) that Thor's pretty much ever gotten from a writer, literally being told by the narration that he was performing an action in microseconds. Even if its old and inconsistent, whereas Adam's speed is permanently part of his powerset--even if he doesn't always use it for plot's sake.
It's pretty much just working off sentiment here. People go off what 'feels right'. It doesn't 'feel right' to say a big shot top tier like Thor could be stomped by someone like Superman or Black Adam, but really, that's all we have to go by. Feats. That is the only objective way to look at things.
I don't like Black Adam any more than I like Thor, so its not even a bias issue here, its just acknowledging what feats mean.
If this were any other obscure character and not someone popular like Thor, (hell let's say this character isn't even in Marvel or DC at all) who's speed feats were comparable, would anyone argue if someone said Black Adam could speed blitz said character? Probably not, especially if the argument is gotten by feat comparisons--exactly as I'm talking about here. They wouldn't care enough, and it wouldn't 'feel wrong' to say Black Adam could speed blitz said character. But it definitely 'feels wrong' to say Black Adam could do so to Thor am I right? I don't care about what feels what way though, I care about feats.
If there are quantifiable feats or even clear cut statements that can put Thor in Adam's speed and reflexes class that's different, that's doing something objective, but otherwise, its simply sentiment at play here.
and Ali? Strange comparison. Ali's reflexes were not several orders of magnitude greater than his opponents, maybe 25% at best, and that was still enough for him to make a lot of people look like clowns.
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Last edited by CosmicComet on May 10th, 2012 at 06:19 AM
You're making an awful lot of assumptions about how Adam sees the world.
Nobody's glossing over anything; you're just trying to argue powerset as opposed to character. Could Adam blitz someone like Thor? Possibly. Would he? That's the question.
It's not sentimentaility in the slightest; it's the desire to accurately portray how Adam would behave in a fight, which is what you seem to be refusing to do (and not for the first time I might add).
And no, my comparison to Ali was not about reflex speed, but rather his willingness to dance around his opponents. Adam isn't that kind of fighter.
I'm not making any assumptions, I'm going off feats.
Black Adam can comfortably maneuver on Earth running at lightspeed. Seeing as lightspeed is fast enough to travel around the equator about 8 times in a single second, that firmly puts Black Adam in the nanosecond level. (light only travels one foot in a nanosecond btw).
So basically, with the 'would he' question, the argument again becomes that Thor's chances of winning rest sorely on Adam's treatment of the fight.
I'm fine with that, because its an admission that Thor has no counter for the speed and can only win if Adam deliberately fights stupidly (extremely stupidly, standing in one spot for what feels like minutes) enough to allow him the chance.
Like I said in the past. Feats are number 1. Not character, despite what the rules say. Because some entity with feats and no dialogue or character statements can theoretically be argued for in a thread vs another character, but a character that has dialogue and an established personality, but no feats, can't in principle be used in threads.
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Last edited by CosmicComet on May 10th, 2012 at 06:48 AM
Even though i think Adam will win a slight majortity, saying Thor isn't fast enough to hit Adam isn't consistent with how both characters have been portrayed.
We've argued upon this topic before jake. Speed isn't thor's forte here and if you think he's going to have an easy time based upon his fights against other speedsters though he's almost no noteworthy speed feats of his own, then can I use adam's perfect record in fights and declare him the winner? No one has koed adam in a straight up fight without any plot devices, why should we assume that thor can ko him here?
Did I say Thor has a easy time here? No, I didn't.
I did state that given Thor's capabilities, powers, and reflexes, he's able to tag speedsters, which is true and supported on panel.
I have no issue with the argument that such and such can or has the capability to speedblitz Thor. What I do have issue with is that Thor would be a living statue to said character and would have no means of mustering an attack or counterattack in the fight. It's a falsehood when you look at what Thor can and has done on panel.
And since I didn't say Thor has an easy time here in spite of your claiming the opposite, it makes no sense to apply a no-limits fallacy on Black Adam, which isn't even the subject of contention as far as this discussion goes.
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Last edited by JakeTheBank on May 10th, 2012 at 07:54 AM
Why not? You are arguing that thor can hit adam and he has enough reflexes and feats based upon his fights with speedsters which is consistent for thor which isn't true at all. Thor has far much trouble throughout his history in tagging low level speedsters than he has tagged the high level speedsters who aren't using their speed to counter the attacks of thor. Now when I'm using adam's consistency in his fights throughout his history its suddenly "No Limits fallacy", huh? I've never claimed that thor would be a statue but can he actively fight back before he gets overwhelmed against speedsters at adam's level IF they are using the speed is the issue here and frankly from what I've seen from thor, I've a hard time believing it.
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May 10th, 2012 04:14 AM
