If we're talking about the Destroyer armor in #300, with all the Asgardians in it as well as the powers of the other sky-fathers:
- The Destroyer's disintegration beam did absolutely nothing in the entire fight save for rupturing the protective dome the Celestials erected. One of the celestials casually deflected it with his hand. A well-fed Galactus wouldn't be "rocked" at all. Perhaps physically it might propel him some distance, like the Thanos blast, but like the Thanos blast, it will do nothing. If a Celestial can be unharmed by the blast, i find it hard pressed that you're going to argue a well-fed Galactus would be "rocked" by the blast. And if it does physically propel him some distance, then it just continues being a ranged battle that is inevitably and incontrovertibly in Galactus' favor.
- The Destroyer armor in #300 was said to be casually able to withstand a supernova, but yet was completely reduced to metallic slag by the combined forces of the celestials. A super nova is an exploding star that destroys the planetary system it's a part of. Galactus casually was wading around in a star in the process of going super nova in Thanos #3.
1. Galactus was destroying an untold number of galaxies in his well-fed battle against FP Tyrant. A galaxy has billions and billions of stars in it.
2. Annihilation (i.e., severely starved and weakened) Galactus destroyed more than three star systems with his blast. it's generally used in astronomy as 1 star system containing 2 or more solar systems.
All of that output exceeds the comfort zone of the Destroyer.
-Galactus has never had his limbs severed. To my knowledge the only time anything close to that happening was in FF annual, which was an alternate reality's Galactus head, ripped away by Abraxas, no less. Anyway, recalling events in SS against DP Tyrant and the Devourer limited series is irrelevant as it was Galactus' own tech that was siphoning away his very energies. Odin doesn't have that here, and likely wouldn't even understand how to use it even if he did. T & A were no instances of him requiring to use molecular manip on himself so that's also irrelevant, same with Thor. In Infinity War he suffered total disintegration at the hand of the magus' cosmic cubes...that's different from having his own tech used against him (Tyrant and Devourer), or being KO'd (T&A).
-I'm surprised you're going to state that a celestial>Galactus when you just opened yourself wide open to the same question you exploit: when has any single celestial ever defeated someone on Galactus' level?
-The Destroyer vs. 4th host fight was really a joke. It was much more to show how far the sky-fathers were under the celestials, more than to showcase what Odin can do with 1000 years' worth of prep.
If you've ever watched pro wrestling you know that events are dramatic and engage the crowd more when you have a powerful hero face off against a gang of villains. If hulk hogan goes in all hulked up against a group of 7 guys (andre the giant, ultimate warrior, undertaker, etc. etc.) you dont have the villains beat him down into unconsciousness in the opening bell. You have hogan unleash all the trademark moves, then the hero gets finished off relatively quickly. The story showcases the hero, but the villains actually move the story forward by ending the conflict.
No where in the entire contest was any single celestial in any danger whatsoever. It's not so much that it takes the entire 4th host to bring down the destroyer but that the 4th hosts' power is so much greater than the Destroyer's that the 4th host reduces the Destroyer to molten metal. That is undoubtedly a bit overboard. They don't KO the destroyer (which for KMC purposes will win the battle) they actually reduce it to its base component, metal. It's power above and beyond what is necessary to win the battle.
Odin's most potent power (disintegration beam) in the armor did absolutely nothing against any single celestial. Therefore he doesn't have the power to match G here.
Destroyer Odin's durability is far below the damage output a well-fed Galactus (vs. FP Tyrant) can unleash, and arguably well below what a starved Galactus (annihilation) can wreak. Therefore he doesn't have the durability to stand up to G here.
Which brings us to the sword. The sword which Odin brought to existence by using his molecular transmutation with the rhinegold ring. The sword which Arishem allowed himself to be stabbed with, casually took out with his hand, and in turn performed his own molecular transmutation, dissolving the sword into a nonfactor in an instant with the touch of his hand. The same sword which was formed by molecular transmutation, was dissolved into harmless liquid by molecular transmutation, and which will face a character that is easily in the top 5 of the highest tier at molecular transmutation, Galactus.
Yes, the sword isn't going to do much help for Odin.
He already reformed himself from complete disintegration at the hand of the magus' cosmic cubes
__________________
"It is unwise to battle the Power Cosmic." - Silver Surfer
Last edited by Power Cosmic II on Jan 28th, 2010 at 07:05 AM
As already mentioned, why is the Celestial showing being used here? It wasn't remotely an impressive showing for the Odin. It's not the Celestials fault Odin decided to try and take them all on at once.
in a forum battle Galactus wins, pretty easily at that.
in comics, Odin/Thor fans will be acknowledged and Galactus will struggle (but ultimately win).
Gender: Male Location: United States, NY, Long Island
Well first i like to say i don't see them just destroying the sword while Odin' is there.
1 They would of done that the first time we say the sword able to tank a single blast.
2. once odin died they destroyed the sword but since odin was gone so was the odinpower that support the sword. Prime example how mjolnir wouldn't return to Thors hand as odin had dies the enhanctment was gone.
Then i would like to address the odindestorers power level.
It was clear is was far above the skyfather level how far we can't tell from the one showing but it did show it could contend/ hold it own agasin the celestrial the fact that it was still able to battle H2H while 2 others blased away on it.
Know we seeen the celestrials loos against a few beings/battle
1. beyonder Ok bad example as well it was the freakin beyonder but he did show that the celestrial could be KOED
2. thanos with the IG again this doesn't help odin's cause b/c of the level of power of the IG yes Odin' destroyer is no where near.
3. The Battle with the reeds. the reeds showed use that they can be killed 1 was killed by using another world IG ok not helping the cause.
However Reed from-616 used weapons that he made/store that were cable of fighting/killin a celetrials which they did. Odin destroyer is a huge amp and should be able to get a win or 2 against a standard celetrial and given Galactus power levels up and down he should be able to sneak a win or two. eespcially on how "weak" Post A-wave Galactus is due to having alomust all of his power drained
That explanations for the power levels being thrown around don't supercede the obvious power levels involved here. Just because Odin destroyed a galaxy under another writer doesn't mean that Odin is more powerful than Odin from issue 300. That's ludicrous. To assume the best he can do it destroy a planet with these attacks is also ridiculous.
One blast out of how many that hit him?
Yeah, of course you apply cbr type standards to Galactus as you really want him to win.
Yes, from Celestials surrounding him from all sides. It wasn't close to a one on one battle so acting as if Galactus can replicate this type of feat when the guy was taxed breaking through a Thanos shield is unbelievable to be honest.
You don't have a leg to stand on.
The fact he won't reform when he starts lopping off limbs while in battle.
Of course my opinion.
I disagree with your interpretation. We never saw Galactus killed or the heroes for that matter.
Why can't Odin follow him? I mean seriously?
I don't see Galactus as powerful enough to easily jar it from Odin's hands. The Celestials are simply more powerful and he was also overwhelmed by their sheer numbers.
I don't recall other skyfathers' powers being involved just the asgardians souls.
Yes, and we've seen a Celestial shake off a godblast and undo it's actions like it was nothing. That was a far more powerful godblast which drove Galactus off since it destroyer a reinforced hammer.
So comparing Galactus' power to a Celestial's is off imo.
We've seen a well fed Galactus rocked by much less. I mean Thanos whose power he himself described as lilluptian to Galactus' was able to drive him back I see no reason why an Odin amped Destroyer wouldn't seriously effect Galactus here.
Odin has destroyed a galaxy before in the form of Infinity. Just a darker aspect of himself was able to do so so comparing these collateral damage feats like it tells us anything is more wishful thinking.
1.That was proposed like it must have been. It was never confirmed though let's say it was. Odin's darker aspect destroyed galaxies easily in the form of Infinity.
2.And your point is?
I disagree with your interpretation of him being completely disintegrated.
They have faced off against similar instances while the Celestial seems to laugh off certain attacks which have made galactus run for his life.
I see the Celestials who far outrank cc's as being more powerful than Galactus. No shock there I hope.
Galactus wouldn't fare any better in a direct battle with the 4th host of the celestials. Him squaring off against Tyrant was a complete joke in terms of Galactus' preparations as he faced off against a weaker foe he previously had defeated and supplied his own means of defeat. I mean come on now.
They weren't in trouble because they were a lot more powerful and they faced off against one foe and greatly outnumbered him. LOL.
Tenebrous and Aegis put the works to Galactus there. That's an example of far less than the 4th host putting the screws to Galactus.
Yes, the beam didn't but thee sword did so it's obvious which was more effective.
An aspect of Odin was easily destroying galaxies as well and this is supported on panel while Thanos was speculating as to the damage wrought by these two titans.
Against the Celestials the sword wasn't much help but against one foe Galactus this will have a very different outcome.
I've always considered Galactus more powerful than a celestial, but in order to have him repeatedly interacting/threatening lesser beings they have to tone him down. Stories involving big g would be pointless if he couldn't be hurt or defeated by anyone under him in power which would be almost all of marvel. Non pis/cis galactus would absolutely crush Odin here imo.
I think it varies. All characters through time tend to get written down here and there. I always saw the Celestials as being on a higher paygrade than galactus let alone the entire 4th host.
That was one of Galactus' earliest appearences. Galactus was both exhausted and starving, plust at the time Galactus was considered to be a skyfather level
Each of the skyfathers imbued the destroyer with some of their power. In that way it just wasn't asgard vs. the fourth host, it was all the pantheons, proxied by asgard, vs. the fourth host.
The Godblast against Galactus was after he had fought Ego. Galactus' powerlevels since his early showings have greatly increased since then as well so that's an outdated showing at best. This is quite evident in the statement Galactus gave to Ego, saying Ego was the most powerful foe he had ever faced. Obviously Galactus has faced far greater than ego since then and has lived to fight another day. Case in point, his powerlevel has changed. That's why KMC makes the distinction of current characters (by default) in vs. battles, unless stated otherwise. Therefore this battle is current, well-fed Galactus.
Since the Ego encounter thor has never ever since then posed any kind of threat to Galactus and indeed in BRB Godhunter Thor refused to aid BRB against Galactus, and further added that even if he had his full powers of the Odin force, he would still refuse.
Again, when has any single Celestial defeated anyone on Galactus' level? Tiamut the dreaming Celestial was struggling to display power sufficient to destroy a solar system during the eternals arc. So comparing a celestial to Galactus' powers is a bit off, I agree.
Yes Thanos drove him back. As mentioned in my post that's all it did. Galactus closed the distance instantly by teleportation and proceeded to obliterate Thanos' defenses. What makes you think that the Destroyer would achieve anything more vs. what it could do against 1 celestial? As I said, even if the destroyer propelled him physically it would just be a ranged battle grossly in G's favor. And if G wished to he could close the distance by instant teleportation, as he did Thanos. Thanos who can react to the SS. Yet Galactus still was able to execute his attack. Wishful thinking to assume disintegration beam would harm Galactus in anyway when a celestial casually blocks it with his hand.
Odin may be able to perform those feats (though odin hasn't displayed that range of power for years) but the Destroyer armor was explicitly mentioned to be able to comfortably tank a supernova. Further than that and it begins to become susceptible to damage. The point isn't whether Odin can do the damage, the point is whether the Destroyer can withstand Galactus' damage, and the answer is NO since it was clearly quantified as supernova-level blasts being in its comfort zone. Galactus has exhibited damage far in excess of that so that is my point, which you questioned.
There's no interpretation. Read the comic again. He was disintegrated, and then reformed. Disintegrate was even the word used in the handbook. So it's not my interpretation. It's marvel editorial fact.
Again you can never show any instance of a single Celestial going against someone on Galactus' level. All you can point to is the Godblast feat which occurred over 40 years ago to a Galactus that has since then grown greatly in status (3rd force in the universe, container of Abraxas, pivotal role at the end of current universe, etc.) and power (Galactus stating Ego was his most difficult opponent ever, when he's since faced In-Betweener, Mephisto, Agamotto, Abraxas, Hyperstorm, T&A, etc., all >>>>>>>>>> Ego) while Thor has never posed a theat to Galactus since then. That's why current characters are the default on KMC. I hardly call that any support for your argument.
The only reason you say that Celestials are >> CCs is because of kubik's statement. Yet we have doom saying that a CC is a fraction of Galactus' power. We have Galactus reforming after an attack by 5 CCs and we have Galactus freeing Eternity from the bonds created by 5 CCs, so there's credence to that statement.
Regardless, we also have Kubik state Galactus among the Great Powers, which are the highest tier in the universe according to Kubik, when he explains the hierarchy of the cosmos to Kosmos. He doesn't include the Celestials among the Great Powers, and in fact includes them in the tier below the Great Powers, which include the watchers, the Dark Phoenix, the Stranger, and the Lords of the Splinter Realms. So unless you are getting the Celestials>CCs from someone other than Kubik, Galactus>celestial>CC, according to Kubik.
Galactus vs. DP Tyrant has no relevance in this fight...why do you keep bringing it up? Odin doesn't have Galactus' tech, just the Destroyer, the Odinsword, and Gungir, that's it.
T&A are beings equal to Galactus in power. That's 2-on-1. Basically, it's you in a fist-fight vs. two of you. Who do you expect to win? Galactus had Tenebrous damaged while Aegis cheap-shotted him from behind. They were also prepped by Thanos. I hardly find any credence to the parallel you're drawing between a 1000 year prepped Asgard vs. the 4th host and Galactus vs. 2 Galactus-level beings prepped by Thanos.
There's nothing to laugh at the 4th host vs. Destroyer battle. The point is that none of the Destroyer's attacks were doing anything. The celestials even waited for Odin to finish his attack on 1 celestial at a time before they would retaliate. The disintegration beam was useless against 1 celestial. Ziran regrew his arm instantly. Odin was outnumbered but he was attacking 1-on-1. And his attacks were fruitless. There's nothing funny about that.
Thanos was watching a recording from Tyrant's computer, not Thanos's computer...which is a small detail that many on KMC overlook, as they just think it's Thanos running a simulation of the battle on his own computer. Not true...he's watching the battle from a recording on Tyrant's vessel, and from the data that Tyrant's computer is showing him, Thanos deduces that galaxies were destroyed. There's no reason to think Tyrant's computer (when tyrant is a technopath) is inaccurate or that Thanos is exaggerating when he uses the data from Tyrant's computer to come up with that conclusion.
Galactus reassembled himself from total disintegration. The sword is vulnerable to molecular manip. The enchantments on the sword were still functional as it states that the curse of the rhinegold ring was exorcised by arishem's transmutation. Galactus waves his hand and the sword is disintegrated.
__________________
"It is unwise to battle the Power Cosmic." - Silver Surfer
Last edited by Power Cosmic II on Jan 28th, 2010 at 08:40 PM
To make the destroyer not like he was amped with their powers for this fight.
I never said otherwise. My point is though we have seen a well fed Galactus go down against far less than the 4th host of the celestials.
Which proves what? this is the destroyer Odin of issue 300 so your point for bringing this up? Thor didn't like the reasons BrB was going after Galactus. That's why.
So? We've seen a celestial easily take on Odin who has destroyed galaxies before yet when matched up against them he paled in comparison while amped. Your logic is horrid and all an attempt to hype up Galactus.
Galactus also sent forces after him while re engaging him. Don't forget to leave that part out.
Not wishful thinking it's dishonest of you to claim Galactus can easily ward it off when he's not a celestial.
Odin's power hasn't changed. You citing issues with what year what has happened is another attempt by you to pretend the powers/showing is no longer relevant when this simply isn't the case.
When has Galactus destroyed galaxies on panel?
We've also seen far less damage Galactus so being hung up on the terminology used in the issue is wishful thinking at best.
yet we've seen far less defeat Galactus or pose a major threat to him such as tenebrous and aegis and Tyrant. Tyrant actually took his herald from him and galactus didn't do a thing about it.
That's still a relevant statement while we've seen the beyonder force galactus in secret wars.
My point is Tyrant isn't anywhere near as powerful as Odin here so him being a legit threat to galactus means galactus is in trouble here.
When did kubik ever state galactus>than Celestials.
Asgard amped his power level he didn't stage some massive invasion. He showed up and took them on physically while T an dA took Galactus on physically and dominated him. The 4th host>>>T and A.
Regrowing his arm means the attack wasn't useless only that it was useless against a celestial's abilities. I mean come on now. saying cutting off someone's arm is useless is completely ridiculous.
He speculated galaxies must have been destroyed. he said must have not they were destroyed. Context.
Depends on the situation. I don't see Galactus as using it here but with the stakes against him and entire armies coming after him he might. I think there's more of a chance for him to do so especially with the forces on his side. The might use it not him. Thanos would use every available resource given to him to beat bn.
My stance was also it depends on the gravity of the situation. The un was used against Magus and Abraxas because it was needed to. I don't see him using it against Odin because Odin's isn't head and shoulders above him.
KMC Community Forums
Jan 28th, 2010 07:03 AM
