And that's about it for you. Gave you a chance. Read your sig for a reason.
I thought I could talk sense. Though I did think it weird how I was shown a debate against a poster I never heard of before but whatever. People do things.
Psychological projection is a theory in psychology in which humans defend themselves against their own unconscious impulses or qualities (both positive and negative) by denying their existence in themselves while attributing them to others.[1] For example, a person who is habitually intolerant may constantly accuse other people of being intolerant. It incorporates blame shifting.
According to some research, the projection of one's unconscious qualities onto others is a common process in everyday life.
[B]You are trying to poorly divert the debate on my supposed qualities and default "according to you".
That's an usual tactic used by politician when they are caught using logical fallacies and trying to make them pass for actual arguments.
Try harder. I don't fall for it.
I've explained why it's irrelevant.
You are using examples whom doesn't correlate to the topic at hand, aka knowing how powerful Sentry is physically, because the whole Helicarrier instance require FINESS over RAW POWER.
I explained that multiple times already.
You are using pointless examples, unrelated to the Celestial example.
I've already explained why the example differs. MULTIPLE TIMES.
Why would we assume the opposite ? Do you have any proof that suddenly Exitar isn't doing his best to land on Earth to accomplish his duty ?
You are handwaving the part where Rogue is shown to be completely useless before Sentry own intervention because that suits your narrative.
Rogue tried and did jack squat.
I've bring proof on panel and you bring your opinion about it.
I've presented facts. I don't care if you don't like them because ultimately that's all that matter.
The more you pertaining that conversation, the more you are convincing me that you are biased.
About addressing some pertinent arguments... Where are they exactly ?
Read my previous posts again.
It does, I don't have to discuss fallacious arguments that suits your opinion over what happened into the story.
Refusing an answer on a irrelevant loaded question is a logical outcome.
The fact that you don't see why you are wrong speaks volumes about your ability at debating... Otherwise you wouldn't stick to your Argumentum Verbosium and drag down the debates with that poor attempts at antagonizing me like comparing me to Abhi and h1...
Very nice.
Now apply the advice to yourself.
If you don't understand why it's irrelevant, then read my previous posts where I explained why.
You literally want the last paragraphs.
Your posts are completely empty of arguments actually.
I imagine I got "No you are" a lot and told everything was irrelevant with no explanation. Whatever. I'm free now. I'm sure Riv can decide what's what since he's apparently reading the whole thing.
Also that conversation had nothing to do with the actual thread. Thread is still game on Riv.
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My example of the hydraulic is sound, because at least I'm presenting two cases with the same logical outcome aka two characters trying to counter a force going downward that they cannot stop at all.
I have all right to refuse answering to your poor attempts at moving the goalposts on irrelevancies. If you think that I will fall for this fallacious debating tactics only used by beginners, I will not.
The same way I will not convince religious fanatics that their god is a fictional character and that blowing up their asses will not give them a free entrance for some fictional realm. Understood.
I've actually told you that we can agree to disagree but hey, you are the one trying to antagonize me during 99% of the debate.
You are speaking about the scales but once more, you don't understand the difference in power between the heroes on Earth and a simple Celestial, so I guess that understanding the massive difference in power between Exitar and a single Celestial is too complicated. Right ?
99% of your posts are devoid at lecturing me...
Oh the irony !
Read yourself again please.
Here we are back at your habit at using the psychological projection. I thought you was done with it. I'm reassured.
Let's see:
Helicarrier falling =/= Exitar pushing down.
A simple observation give you the answer but you are so full into your faulty analogy that you cannot backtrack it. Too bad for you.
I will try again with keywords, because the previous sentences didn't hit you...
Finesse =/= Raw power.
Oh but maybe you don't what "finesse" and "raw power" means. Google it.
I assumed you knew those words. My bad.
No, it's not proportionally reduced because in the case of a "small test scale" all of the other settings have to be reduced accordingly. That means that Sentry power would have to be reduced too.
Anyway that's... ****ING IRRELEVANT.
Read above.
Exitar wasn't falling down.
Did you had physics class or... ?
Yeah, a man tried to avoid the weight to suddenly stop and kill everyone on board. Different context than versus Exitar where Sentry actually produced an effort to stop the Force going down.
Projecting.
The Helicarrier feat is irrelevant, it's not surprising that you keep trying to divert the discussion on something that have a different context.
Over-simplfying = changing an explanation to something that suits you = Strawmaning.
****ing irrelevant.
Sentry was far from using his full power because not only that was unneeded but dangerous for the crew.
Projecting...
Her effort was negligible.
Yes it does.
Sentry has destroyed Molecule Man. Heck, I wonder why they don't bring Rogue with all the powers of the world in every fight because that seems to be the ultimate answer for you.
Evidence shows she was useless because Exitar was sinking down and not slowed down.
[IMAGE]https://i.imgur.com/5ekrtXQ.jpg[/IMAGE]
Sure pal.
If Joe the Funny Guy and an ant are pushing my feet so I cannot land of the ground, the ant totally 50% of the job too.
Rogue was completely useless. Deal with it.
They said Half of the PLAN, not the effort.
I've already posted the definition of what PLAN means and you handwaved it because it crushed your beliefs.
Rogue was 50 % of the IDEA, about the effort she was an INSECT, completely useless.
No, it is only relevant because if you put a metahuman and an human under the press and that the press is stopped, there is a big hint that's the metahuman whom stopped it and avoided the human to be crushed....
But hey, double standards.
Already explained above.
Yes she was trying to help.
Look at the scan that I've posted above, again, and tell me who is the one ignoring proofs on panel... Oh well that's you.
Yeah and Rogue powered by thousands of her kind was completely useless, as shown on panel.
It helps when it's not completely NEGLIGIBLE LIKE HERE.
It doesn't.
They were two to push and only Sentry had a relevant strength but hey... Hello to your double standards again.
It is just plain obvious.
It speaks volumes about your inability to grasp the context and ask pertinent questions.
1. Sentry provided 50% of the required strength to stop Exitar. Captain America said, that Rogue was only half of the equation. That's the only solid proof we have in the entire debate, so that's the only thing we can go with.
Also in that regard Realitywarper is a complete and utter moron. Like always. You have to be next level dumb to come up with the statement that Rogue did absolutely nothing and that it was all the Sentry. That's not bias, that's straight up a delusion, which needs to be looked at.
If he was a smart person, his proof would be Iron Mans statement after Sentry steps in to stop Exitar. Iron Man says: "Whoever the hell Wasp has holding that other foot--they've stopped the Celestial's descent!"
Now from the wording alone one could make the argument, that Iron Man doesn't mean Rogue and the Sentry, but rather all the people, who in Iron Mans mind must be holding Exitar. That THEY have stopped Exitar.
But again, I personally would call that poor wording, rather than Remender having the Sentry, and only the Sentry in mind.
2. The entire debate leaves way too many questions open, which can't be answered. How strong was Rogue actually? How much of Sentrys equal 50% strength came from himself and how much from the Death Seed power upgrade?
It was not about stopping the weight of a planet. Exitar was pushing down with much more kinetic power than the weight of a simple planet is.
We've seen Hyperion alone keeping two Earths from crashing into each other for an unknown period of time. Some argue that he was holding two universes apart. Even just holding two Earths apart would be interesting enough, but then he also slowed down a planet, larger than the Earth, that was approaching at 500.000 miles per hour. Hyperion alone. And Rogue had his strength. Rogue also had the strength of many other strong super heroes like Blue Marvel, Hulk, Thor eventually, Wonder Man, Captain Britain and so on, and so on.
Did all the strength levels of those heroes stack? Or was just the strength of the physically strongest one of them all active, and then additionally amped by gamma radiation? I kinda believed that all the strength levels stacked. Now did Rogue utilize all of that strength perfectly? Who knows.
How would have a regular Sentry at his best performed in the same situation? I personally would argue that he would have done pretty damn fine, if we look at certain stuff during his run... like his fights against the Void and what the Void did to high heralds like Hulk and Thor. Sentry has insane levels of physical strengths. He always had.
3. The entire argument with the bench press spotter and the hydraulic press are faulty beyond belief.
I won't get into the hydraulic press too much, because it's just RealityWarper being an idiot again, but... the spotter argument, I would like to debunk.
Some people try to take credit away from the Sentry by saying, that Rogue did all the heavy lifting and Sentry did the tiny bit necessary so that she could do all the work. You know, like spotting works, when you lift weights. Taking a little bit weight away can give you the needed strength to move the weight up. You'll often see that with forced negative reps, where a spotter helps you move the weight up, but you move the weight down on your own, since you have much more strength and control during the negative phase of a rep.
I've been lifting weights for years and I know how all of that works, but... I can counter the bench press argument the same way I told a guy "no", who asked me to spot him. It was a skinny guy, who I sometimes watched, while he was taking way too much weight and doing joint breaker reps. And one day he asked me to spot him on the bench press. I told him, that I couldn't help him out, because I had done deadlifts yesterday.
The bench press argument works in the exact reverse. Rogue could have done 90% of the work, but that was too much and she needed the last 10% from the Sentry, do stop Exitar. She on the bench, he spotting the weight up.
But Rogue could have also done the 10% of the work, not standing a chance against all of the weight on the bench and then the Sentry had to put in 90% of the work by deadlifting the weight up.
But that didn't apply for neither one of them. Rogue did 50% of the work and so did the Sentry. That's what one source (Captain America) told us, and then the summary of the next issue kinda confirmed it more or less as well.
4. Sentry didn't need Ms. Marvels and Wonder Mans help with the Helicarrier. That is overall such a weird moment in Sentry comics.
I personally think it was more of a tough balancing act, rather than a lifting task.
Sentry was in a similar position before, where he had to balance something arguably equally big and heavy like the helicarrier ( https://imgur.com/WdGS3CY ). Did did rather that than lifting the entire ship, since that would have killed people on board.
On top of that every time Ms. Marvel needed strength, Sentry was there to help her out ( https://i.imgur.com/qVQ2KSr.jpg ). On top of that Sentry offered to sink an island during a fight ( https://imgur.com/rNNyqNC ). Pretty sure that he wouldn't struggle with lifting an (EMPTY!!!) helicarrier.
5. Why hasn't RealityWarper been banned yet?
Ban him for his own good. He is constantly getting verbally abused by everyone.
At this point he has suffered so much mental defeat, that every time someone even dares to question his multiversal power level wank he goes defensive and starts throwing out random ass fallacies, without realizing that he is a fallacy victim (overloaded question fallacy, Dunning Krueger effect, backfire effect, four stages of competence and I could go on and on).
6. On topic:
Comic book battles are not about feats. The question is never who has better feats, but who would win in a fight. One could make an argument for Silver Surfer having more averagely decent feats than the Sentry - maybe even straight up better feats than the Sentry... But Sentry would still punch a hole through Silver Surfers chest. It wouldn't even be a close fight, if they were to fight for real. Everyone, who is free of bias knows that.
Superman-Prime: One Million might have questionable feats (which is also very, very arguable), but he would still beat the Sentry due to Supermans backstory and what exposure to solar radiation does to him.
I personally like to try to keep things simple, when it comes to overall power levels and in relation to those also power output and durability. In my mind the overall more powerful someone like Superman gets, the more molecular density he gets for example. And there is always a limit to how easy powerful molecule manipulations should be to pull such molecules apart. I mean, wasn't that one of the reasons why the Hulk has a slightly better resistance to molecule manipulation than many others?
I think that a character like the Sentry, who does a lot of stuff subconsciously is a perfect example to explain power and durability. Like when the Sentry punches an opponent into the ground... Why doesn't the ground completely give in and cause an Earthquake, which levels the entire city? Because he doesn't have the strength to do so? Of course he has the strength. He has done such stuff.
But I would argue that he subconsciously increases the molecular density of the environment to avoid all too much property damage.
The same applies to Superman. Now be it his assumed mental powers increasing his molecular density or all the solar radiation, but I personally believe that at Superman-Prime: One Million levels Superman would be too durable for the Sentry to get through with all of his offense. He wouldn't have the needed damage output to put Superman-Prime: One Million down.
But that's just my opinion.
PS: In the better character department Sentry ruins all of the Superman versions, even if you combine them into one Superdudebrocharacter.
We both know, that you're reporting me, because you can't stand the fact, that you'll always be living in my shadow, when it comes to Sentry knowledge.
But hey, at least when it comes to Sentry idiocy, all the spotlight is on you and only on you. You did it.
There we go. To defend the bench press argument, I'm not saying it was akin to a bench press, I was just using it as an example to show that doing **** all with the bench press still has you pushing most of the weight. Even if it gets lodged on your chest and you can't move it, if a spotter makes it look easy, you are still moving most of the weight. Not zero weight like RW implies.
A more accurate argument would be to have both guys pressing, but that would defeat the highlight of how little it can look like you're actually doing, but you are doing a lot.
But yes, both Sentry and Rogue were in the same position. Rogue was just exerting herself longer, not providing more strength.
The helicarrier whatever you want to spin it into like Warper was doing was brought up because it mirrors the Exitar feat. One thing is falling, suddenly it stops. The people who came in didn't do more weight, they just provided extra power.
I still think Bendis just ****ed up though. It was intended all strength, etc, but it really doesn't matter. Sentry was ramping up his strength from that point on even in that arc. He went from a ***** to completely pushing in Femtron's shit. The helicarrier was when he was still acting like a pussy.
Both examples were brought up just to reinforce how help you know, helps, but I didn't know what I was getting into.
That point about Sentry being a power source for Superman is a pretty good one, actually. Power of a million exploding suns...powered by suns...good point.
It's all in the wording. He has the power of a million exploding stars, it never states that he is powered by a million exploding stars, or that he radiates the power of a million exploding stars,
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Feb 17th, 2018 10:37 PM
