Lightsaber skills is a pretty all encompassing term though and would include dueling. There’s nothing similar to a weight class in dueling so I’m not sure what you’re point is unless you’re referencing force augmentation, which not only doesn’t seem to matter much in Disney canon (see Ahsoka vs. magistrate), but also is irrelevant here because I think we can all agree that Kylo doesn’t lack in the force.
Last edited by xPRIMEx on Jan 4th, 2021 at 11:10 PM
Come on people, it literally compares Kylo to Luke and Vader by saying they all possess formidable lightsaber skills. That should give you an idea of how formidable his lightsaber skills are.
Last edited by Rebel95 on Jan 4th, 2021 at 11:27 PM
Tyson was not known for being the most skilled fighter when he was champion.
Its impressive nonetheless given we know how incredibly skilled Vader was as a swordsman (at least as Anakin), but it really doesnt mean much in regards to if he could seriously compete with Vader or Luke in a sword fight.
Im sticking with the more concrete quotes from the films that Kylo was no Vader, rather than accepting an ambiguous quote that Kylo was already a Vader level swordsman years before the films. Especially when it doesnt even say that.
It really isnt hard to say Kylo was Lukes equal as a swordsman. I mean I just said it.
You're entitled to your opinions, but I'm not sure why Snoke taunting and demeaning Kylo after his failure at Starkiller Base is anymore of a definitive measuring stick than the quote at hand?
Tbf, Luke was demonstrably inferior to Vader across the board during ESB. Fast-forward just 1 year to RotJ, and Luke's power/skill were stated to be equal to Vader's.
So it is possible for some characters(especially those linked to the Skywalker or Palpatine bloodlines) to achieve significant growth in a short period of time.
I don’t think anyone is saying that Kylo is a Vader level duelist. Could he be? Maybe. But I don’t think that’s what any of us are saying the quote says. It just compares Kylo’s lightsaber skills to his. That’s still pretty impressive and gives us an idea of how good he is.
Yeah I see what you're saying Galan. It just seems odd to me that "much like" would be used in a way that only applies to Kylo Ren as of TLJ but not also as of the time he killed Luke's students given that it's quoted under a heading that is briefly discussing the time when he killed his fellow students. That's why I feel that the other interpretation fits better.
Not if "much like" in this case is used to mean that Kylo Ren followed in his uncle and grandfather's footsteps by having formidable saber skills at all, not necessarily that those skills rival their own.
__________________ "The power of the dark side is an illness no true Sith would wish to be cured of" -Darth Plagueis
I’m just going to agree to disagree. I don’t think they would have included his uncle and grandfather unless they wanted to give us an idea of how skilled Kylo is. Otherwise they just would have said “Kylo possesses formidable lightsaber skills.”
But likewise they could have just said Kylo was their equal in Saber combat. But they didnt do that either. I think these quotes are all made purposely ambiguous tbh.
Not necessarily. I’ve said multiple times that that wasn’t my point. He could be, but I just think that he must be somewhere near their level in terms of lightsaber skill. Otherwise the comparison wouldn’t have been made.
For example, a lot of people think Kylo is only an average Jedi knight level duelist, or worse. I think this quote rules that possibility out.
Last edited by xPRIMEx on Jan 7th, 2021 at 05:39 PM
I love when people use the choreography to say that Kylo is a poor duelist. We know this isn’t the intention based off of the multiple sources stating the exact opposite.
JJ said he wanted to model the sequels choreography after the OT so it’d look more raw and realistic. The choreography isn’t meant to be indicative of their actual lightsaber prowess. Vader looks slow, especially in ANH. If he was actually that slow he would get torn apart by the PT Jedi. But we all know he’s one of the best of all time.
Also notice how when Ben uses Anakin’s lightsaber his form completely changes and looks more reminiscent of the PT Jedi. It could be that he uses a different form with the crossguard lightsaber. You can’t do all those flashy PT lightsaber twirls without cutting off your wrists
Last edited by xPRIMEx on Jan 7th, 2021 at 07:28 PM
Because the quote says that much like his uncle and grandfather he has formidable saber skills, not that his formidable saber skills are much like his uncle and grandfather's.
I mean, you can take it to mean the latter I guess, but to say that is the only way it can be interpreted is just wrong.
If what Galan is saying is correct, and "much like" is making a comparison, but that the comparison only applies to Kylo Ren as of TLJ, then it feels kinda odd IMO given that it's quoted under a heading that briefly discusses the time Kylo Ren murders Luke's students, which happens several years before TLJ.
However, if that part of the quote applies to Ren as far back as when he killed Luke's students, then that would suggest that Kylo Ren as of TLJ is considerably above Luke and Vader in terms of saber ability (unless you do not believe Ren made any progress at all between then and TLJ [which I do believe he did considering the progress he made in just a year between TLJ and TROS]) and as of TROS he's beyond even that.
^I don't buy that, and I don't think that is what the quote was trying to suggest ether, which is why I think the best interpretation is that "much like" was simply used as a way of saying Kylo followed in his uncle's and grandfather's footsteps by having formidable saber skills at all.
__________________ "The power of the dark side is an illness no true Sith would wish to be cured of" -Darth Plagueis
Jan 4th, 2021 11:02 PM
