SEE THIS IS WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT, you pick at things which are not logical to try to make it better for Gouki, EVERYONE, and i MEAN EVERYONE normally reading
“With that move, it was said that one's own life would be cut off in a MOMENT of unparalleled intensity.”
EVERYONE would translate this into:
"This move, the victims life will be cut off in a moment of unmatched/excruciating pain"
Yet somehow you translate it to:
"The move has 15 hells, the last one is the most hottest and painful"
Yes it does describe the MOVE ITSELF, hence "WITH THIS MOVE"
That can only mean it's describing the MOVE, its not saying "PART OF THIS MOVE" its saying "WITH THIS MOVE" meaning the move as a whole.
Yet you translate it the way you want it so that it "leaves no room for instant" so you want the instant to be where you want it to be.
Sorry Terry, but as you can see both the statements from Udon and Capcom themselves disagree with you.
I have already provided proof of this, directly copy-pasted and formatted from the Street Fighter canon guide provided by Tiamat and Saiki. (Go check if you don’t believe me.) As you can see – they explicitly point to the plotin the UDON as being uncanon despite its accuracy, nothing to do with any other aspect of the comic.
If they really did believe that the entire comic was non-canon, every aspect of it, they would have just generalized completely and not mention anything specific – but they did. More so, they pointed out that the sole motive for creating the comic was to emulate the “spirit” of Street Fighter, something they would never be able to do if they altered the character aside from what Capcom has established by.
Unless you can find me proof, solid evidence, of them (character moves) referred to as non-canon, then your rants hold no ground here – as I said, they’re just noise.
You mean the one vs Rugal Bernstein?
Well, you don’t exactly see much, do you? You only know the circumstances beforehand (once again, proof that you’re not reading my posts) that Rugal Bernstein, one of the “technically” best fighters of all time, ready and waiting and he was unable to avoid it even when Akuma announced it. Considering that they’re using picture stills in the style of SFA (only more prettier) there’s actually no accurate way to form any conjectures relating to passage of time or speed. You have to think deeper into the situation, which, once again you have failed to do.
Do you see him dragging Rugal through the sixteen hells?
Do you see demons beating him up?
No.
You see a big explosion. Tell me, what leads you to believe that the explosion was either the beginning or the end of the move? Also, what evidence do you have that allows you to make such a curiously self-accurate assumption of where that explosion stands, in the time-frame of the course of Shungokusatsu itself?
None, you have nothing – you’re simply forming wild theories again, just because something blew up.
Nice try.
That feat can’t be used as canon anyways, I would refuse to use it, but normal Gouki was able to destroy mountains and islands – so, I wouldn’t be surprised.
Um…are you serious? Like actually serious? (please log in to view the image) (please log in to view the image)
Funnily enough, Gouki’s pose while doing that “uppercut” in the comic matches the final sprite in the second picture I posted almost precisely.
But yeah, enough said here, I reckon.
Well, considering that he shouted the incantation for it in the 2nd last picture (the one I originally found and used), everything before that is moot – he’s just taunting Gouken.
Here is the actual sequence of events (considering you posted the screens in the correct chronological order).
1.) Gouki fires a shakunetsou hadouken at Gouken. It hits.
2.) Gouki throws a high knee(“THWAK”) at Gouken (that’s not the Shungokusatsu, lol), which hits.
3.) You see Gouki reaching out with his palm towards Gouken.
4.) Gouken yells out his top student’s name.
5.) Gouki screams “SHUN GOKU SATSU!”
Why on Earth did you “insert” the words “*'Shungokusatu' Gouki Glides towards Gouken*“ before the “Perhaps your student, Ryu…” panel, where it clearly shows that Gouki was just beating on and taunting Gouken in the other panels on the scan of that page?
He hits Gouken with a flame hadouken, a high knee…he doesn’t perform Shungokusatsu until after.
You mean that corpse in the bottom of the last panel of the last page you posted (the one that shows after Gouki smears the kanji “tien” with blood)? It’s clearly Gouken, from the shape of the head and the huge amount of facial hair underneath.
Would you refer to getting your right arm ripped completely off (from the looks of it) “totally fine”?
And nothing suggests otherwise, either. That’s the whole faulty part of using a comic with stills to tell time passage, which is what you’re trying to do.
Unless you have a point of reference, say, the sun and moon (or their respective positions in the sky) to provide evidence (and you clearly don’t have any, from what I can tell in the frame) – this is yet again, baseless conjecture.
As it stands, from that picture there’s no way to tell time from it – could have been minutes or hours; it’s simply too cloudy to draw conclusion solely from that.
If you’re referring to Tenma Gou Zankuukou, of course they were “making holes”, they’re not supposed to be powerful individually (each zankuu-hadou), they’re more to overwhelm than anything. It’s a lot like Genesis’s flame attack that he used against Sephiroth in the CC cinematic.
As you can see, Gouki’s shakunetsu-hadoukens were easily making explosions that were enough to blow a normal man up. Plus the whole sinking an island and destroying a mountain deal.
I have just placed evidence of statements from both Udon and Capcom that strongely indicate otherwise, right under your nose. Do you have anything, other than useless and entirely unbased and unsupported statements, to contribute? Anything productive, in other words?
Courtesy of Tiamat/Saiki:
(In response to the topic “How would the characters move and fight like if they weren’t restricted by the gameplay engine?”) “Capcom has actually stated that the most accurate portrayal thus far of how various characters in Street Fighter could move and fight is the Street Fighter Zero/Alpha anime.”
There you have it, Capcom specifically named one of their sponsored animes that was quite accurate in terms of character portrayal, thus negating your argument. Unless you want to somehow refute an official statement from Capcom, you’re dead in the water. Claiming that it’s contradictory will get you nowhere.
There’s my references and proof. Where’s yours?
Moot point, as addressed above.
Your logic here simplifies to “Because it’s Udon, not Capcom, it’s entirely inaccurate.”
Which is a textbook “argument from ignorance” logical fallacy.
I think you’re mistaking “official” and “accurate” as synonyms of each other – they’re not, at least not ‘necessarily’. Simply because a media outlet is not classified to be “official” says absolutely nothing about its actual accuracy.
All this is simply noise.
The point stands ; if Capcom didn’t write it themselves, no it doesn’t hold much ground, but if they issue statements regarding the actual accuracy (as they have done, from what I have shown you) of certain animes and comics (not all), then yes, it definitely stands.
Do you have any proof otherwise? Any issued statements from Capcom or Udon? Interview transcripts? No, just faulty logic and conjecture as far as the eye can see. You’ve even gone so far as to drag plot and story into this –yes, I know they’re not canon and even Capcom and Udon said that – but as for character portrayal (excluding “feats”, which are strictly plot-related), some of it has been confirmed to be quite accurate, Udon and the SFA anime specifically. You cannot refute this.
Basically if Capcom makes someone else write it, then assure the customers buying it – “yes, this is how so-and-so is done and portrayed”, does that mean that it’s inaccurate? No, quite the opposite.
Like I said, the SF plot canon guide complied by Tiamat and Saiki.
And it’s not up to you who decides what matters and what doesn’t – Capcom does, and from what they have said in their statements and I have already shown you, a big chunk of it “does” matter, even if storywise they are considered to be non-canon.
Don’t talk as though you have authority over the matter, because you obviously do not.
Judging by how you’ve needlessly brought up Mech Gouki for the fourth time now, I’ll chalk this up to your typical “argument for the sake of argument” idiom.
Who said that the actual course of execution for it was short? Oh yeah, you.
You see a big explosion – and somehow you assume that you can tell an entire story from it; ludicrous, to say the least.
I’m not.
You’re wrong, yet again – see below.
Obviously in terms of specifics – they’re two different game characters, in two different worlds, facing two different opponents. For some strange reason you’re narrowing it down to hard-boiled specifics here simply because I used the word “exact”. Use your common sense, if the conflicts were indeed mirror images of each other you’d have Sq. Enix and Capcom going at it hammer and tongs.
You’re not explaining anything here, I am; the whole point of the similarity between the two conflicts was to show you the disdain for Ryu was almost exactly the same as the disdain for Cloud, the feeling of hatred for Gouki was almost exactly the same as Cloud’s rivalry with Sephiroth, etc.
Gouki picking Ryu up by his head and tossing him away can be easily compared with Sephiroth stabbing Cloud through the shoulder – both adversaries were just out to mock their opponents at the time.
Run-on sentences, babbling without explanation? Yeah, sounds like another rant to me.
First things first – if you want to post to something, then post. If you don’t, then don’t. But don’t parade around pretending as though you didn’t want to post, when you actually did; it’s clear that you wanted to anyway, so don’t try to pull that attitude – not gonna work. Doesn’t make you look good at all either, I might add.
Now, it’s pretty obvious that you’re under the impression that you have to absolutely post to anything and everything I say. Don’t even attempt to pretend otherwise, your actions all over this debate will prove you wrong. See… it’s not like I’m pointing a gun to your head and forcing you to attempt to reply to everything, you are the only one inside that mentality. To make it short – if you see it, you’ll reply to it no matter what it is. Even if there was irrefutable evidence that was provided earlier, you’ll still plough on with your point despite the fact that it has been proven wrong. Look at your “it’s non-canon” points all above. None of them have a point anyways, considering that you have Capcom and Udon’s official statements to vie against if you disagree with them, something which is impossible to refute.
All this doesn’t look good for you, especially considering what I just told you in the post that you just replied to (which, you have seemed to insist on ignoring yet again). You’re still under the considerably obsessive mentality that I’m trying to stop you from posting. Once again, I’m not trying to stop you from posting, period, I told you not to post unless it was at least something productive. You see, as our debate progresses, the less I see from you that is productive at all. You’re wasting your time by posting such content, yet you still do because your obsession demands so. Right now you’re at a point where none of what you’re posting is remotely constructive to the discussion. I’ve advised you not to post unless it was something that would progress the debate, but you ignored me (predictably) and continued anyway.
I just find picks and straws to find something to post? Isn’t that what I just accused you of, more or less? Very rich, considering what you’ve been doing. First of all, look at your reply to the Instant Transmission segment. Despite the fact that it’s pretty obvious it was meant as a joke in relation to what we were discussing (“Instant” hell murder, “Instant” transmission…surely you can see the connection that I was jesting about) you simply have to reply to it anyways, because you do. It’s engraved in you by now. Not only that, you replied to it in a matter which tells me you instantly assumed that I was trying to make a point out of it.
You’re at the point of obsession that you simply have to prove me wrong on something, anything, that you’ll make silly mistakes while trying to do it.
Example, take a look at your “Udon invented this uppercut” argument – any remote Street Fighter fan reading this thread will tell you, “Um, Terry…that’s just his typical gou-shoryuken. ”
Example, take a look at your “Gouki vs Gouken comic” argument – you pieced the frames chronologically wrong for no reason at all, except for the fact that it suited your argument.
Example, take a look at your whole “meter smashing/building destroying” business. Yes, I don’t use them, nor does anyone else – they’re feats, which are entirely original to the comic in the plot-sense, but your point there is moot. I don’t refer to feats, I refer to moves original to Capcom that were portrayed through the comic, in this case, Shungokusatsu.
You accuse me of pointing pointless things (which by now, considering how the debate has developed since then, is moot), but seeing the points that have just been established, where does that leave you?
Literally, nowhere at all.
The Udon-originated feats, yes; Capcom-originated abilities (which is what we’re discussing here) no.
For all your vaunted insisting of “stop posting pointless things”, you’re not setting yourself a good example, aren’t you? No, you’re content on digging your own grave, using hypocrisy as your shovel.
I’m fine with that.
Yes, you factually were. You’re basing your entire argument off of the fact that you don’t actually see the prefight, and on how Ryu managed to get up and fight fine. Ryu made an exceptional recovery – he looked fine then, yes, but what about before? That’s what I’m talking about – the fight beforehand does not pertain to anything relating to how Ryu was able to stand up again.
You choose, predictably, to disregard the results of the pre-fight simply because it topples your argument. It’s nice to see that after all this time, you’re still ignorant of my main points. Gouki picking him up by his head, as I said, is but one of quite a few factors which leads me to believe that he was completely owned in the pre-fight. Any other person watching that video will tell you, “Dude what are you talking about, Ryu got pwnt”.
Let’s bring up the mail-order points.
-Ryu is lying facedown in the dirt.
-He is unable to move.
-He is unable to talk.
-Even after Gouki starts raining shakunetsu-hadoukens left and right for the sole purpose of spiting Ryu, Ryu is unable to do anything more than grunt and gasp and open his eyes.
-Even after Gouki picks up Ryu by his head and yells in his face, Ryu is unable to even do so much as retort.
Now, you’d have the burden of somehow vying against all this evidence against you, above. Normally if it had been a ‘good’ fight you’d see Gouki at least panting, staggering, crouching in exhaustion maybe – something of the sort. Do you see this? No, you don’t. You see him leaping around blasting the ground around Ryu happily with shakunetsu-hadoukens, something he would have been incapable of if he were severely fatigued.
So far, nothing points to a “fair fight” beforehand, and everything points to a complete curbstomp on Gouki’s part. The fact that Ryu was able to stand back up after doesn’t refute the above points, at all.
I’m bringing up solid, irrefutable evidence taken from the trailer itself. Where’s yours?
Your sole argument remaining now “Well it could have been a fair fight, Ryu might have landed some shots on Gouki” are just conjecture. No backup, no evidence, just conjecture.
As far as I’m concerned, you’re attempting (with poor results) to cover up for a foolish statement you made earlier.
“Because I haven’t been incorrect yet, have I? Can you show me where I’ve been incorrect?”
(*shows you*) “You’re posting pointless things now, stop”
Not falling for that one, sorry.
You’d better hope that no one reads this part, because you’ve essentially just made yourself the temporary laughingstock of the KMC Games Vs. forums. Here, have a trophy.
Yes, right now.
If you haven’t noticed, I was referring to the entirety of our debate in general.
Quite funny how you, yet again, jump on something totally irrelevant in a poor attempt to prove me wrong on some obscure, nonexistent point.
Do I see an explanation for this outrageous statement?
Any evidence of what I’ve been saying that explicitly ignored the negatives and focusing on the positives? At least you should have some evidence, right?
In all my experience of debating, the people who can do it properly can admit they’re wrong, the ones who can’t make a mockery out of it when they have nothing left.
Amusing how you seem to think that needlessly pointing out something (or things) that I did wrong earlier will make me look bad. If anything, I take pride in being able to admit to error, so I don’t really mind either way.
Again, nice try.
I “pick” at the similarities/differences between the various Gouki’s in different SF/crossover games, if you haven’t noticed. Not sure how they make Gouki look innately “good”, but that’s just you talking.
I pointed out how a special originating in a MvC game ended up being canon. Does that make Gouki look “good”?
I pointed out how a special actually never shown in a SF is still considered to be “canon”.
Not sure where you’re trying to get at here. (?)
Actually, considering that you missed the point again, I only mentioned the Shin Akuma from CvS2 to bring up how totally and obscenely different he was when in comparison to the actual SF canon.
Always sad when you don’t seem to realize that I’m agreeing with you. Also a little funny.
First of all, you’re still not clear on what separating the context here is really significant for, and that’s a very important part of linguistics – something you don’t seem to be keen to understand. Second of all, that’s not what I said, not remotely.
Let’s have a bit of a refresher before proceeding. B.) The moment, just before death itself, is so intense that it cannot be equaled.
And if you really want to attempt to copy me and pretend that “everyone” will see it that way, evidence so far seems to, yet again, disagree with you.
Now that I’ve corrected you on one instance, let us move on to the actual argument.
Your sole argument is “okay, from what the ancestors described it, it’s:” “ With that move, it was said that one's own life would be cut off in a moment of unparalleled intensity.”
Which is the base statement we’ve been working on.
Now, before we address the meaning of this statement - you seem to believe that shungokusatsu is “instantaneous”, despite the fact that the next passage directly underneath this one asserts the solid irrefutable fact that:
E.) The course of the shungokusatsu itself takes several hours, in which the victim dies at the very end in the final, hottest hell.
And yet you seem to think that the ancestors named it incorrectly. What is your logic for this? It’s based on a single word in the passage.
“ With that move, it was said that one's own life would be cut off in a MOMENT of unparalleled intensity.”
You’re focusing on that one word solely, not even the rest of the passage – just that one word, and separating it from its context, ignoring the rest so that it becomes essentially:
“With that move, it was said that one’s own life would be cut off in a moment.”
This then, leads you to form a basis based on this out-of-context statement:
BB.) The Shungokusatsu is ‘said’ to kill the opponent instantaneously.
Now, despite being this obviously wrong, you attempt to place the blame of misinterpretation on some fictional, mythical characters who were the original ones who named the Shungokusatsu. (?) In short, you’re claiming that the official and confirmed lore of Street Fighter is “wrong” or “mistaken” – therefore claiming that the literal translation is ‘wrong’.
This erroneous idea you’re suggesting doesn’t make sense on a few levels.
You realize that it was Capcom themselves who made the translation, right? Right?
Thus, you are refuting Capcom’s definition, not some weird old mythical “ancestors”, and claiming that it’s wrong.
Next, why would they name it and purposely claim it wrong, in a secret “underlying” fashion?
Why would Capcom(not the ancestors) then name it “instant hell murder” when there was nothing, according to canon, “instant” about the course of the move? Simple, the 'instant' is not referring to the course of the move itself.
Considering that there’s nothing else to refer the “instant” to (and disregarding your baseless mockery of this point) other than how it starts up, reasoning points to the start up as instant.
Is there anything else to refer it as “instant”? No.
Case closed – shungokusatsu is instant, but kills very slowly.
So, where does that leave us now, Terry? Where are we supposed to go from here? At this point you’ve weaseled, avoided and purposely misinterpreted just to get an argument across for me to address. Seeing as how your posts are less and less having to do with the argument at hand (at least in terms of productivity) and more to do with your need to continue to post, there’s actually less for you to do as you go on. It wouldn’t be happening if you managed to, say, find actual uproof.
You’ve essentially boxed yourself into a corner. By logic, you’re technically supposed to admit defeat since there’s no more for you to say (because there isn’t anymore, not if you actually wanted to debate properly) but right now we both know that because of your obsession, there’s more of a chance of that happening than Tifa beating Sephiroth in a fight.
You no longer have anywhere to go in this debate, unless you continue to insist on replying with “but it’s non-canon, doesn’t count”, despite the proof that Capcom and Udon believe that some of the “non-canon plot” material does convey the characters properly.
With all that being said, I fully anticipate your next quote-by-quote reply to be predominantly filled with petulance and purposeful ignorance of the proof I have trumped you with.
CHUCK NORRIS CAN ROUND HOUSE KICK WITH HIS HANDS.
CHUCK NORRIS HAS A BEARD MADE OF FIRE.
CHUCK NORRIS MADE THE EARTH ROUND.
CHUCK NORRIS INVENTED WOOD.
Terry's literally thrust himself in a position right now where he can't do anything except post nonsense or unconstructive gibberish - the chances of him finding actual clear proof or evidence that would irrefutably negate mine are astronomical, considering that mine were taken directly from Capcom and Udon (referring to Tiamat/Saiki).
He lost a long time ago, he just doesn't seem to realize it.
Sorry? Is your intellgience really that low? Udon and Capcom are SEPERATE companies, CAPCOM is the main company that writes the canon Street Fighter story, Udon isn't Udon just takes Capcoms characters and makes comics about them based on Capcoms characters/actual stories, you cannot take Udons comics and use it as proof of how a characters abilities would work in the actual capcom canon story, you're clinging onto straws, picking at things to try to prove your point but you don't realize how ridiculous you're being
They're obviously not going to state "The characters clothes aren't canon, the characters, abilities aren't 100% how they work, the characters settings aren't exactly canon" no they're not going to list everything the fact that they basically wrote "The Story is not canon" is enough for anyone to know that the entire comic is non-canon.
Use your brain please, Udon doesn't write Capcoms canon story, nor are they apart of Capcoms company so they basically know just as much about Capcom characters as anyone of us.
... Read above, they're obviously not going to state every single detail like clothes, settings, character abilities, and go on a big list of what isn't canon, the fact that they said the story is non canon means the comic is non-canon.
Yet again your intelligence fails, it shows the 3 winners of the tournament, and as they announce they show Gouki doing it on Rugal, you really think everyone is just going to stand there for several hours and just wait?
Common sense is your friend, use it.
Because its not canon you must be a true fanboy if you honestly believe Gouki can just jump out of orbit and blow up a meteor a quarter the size of earth.
Umm, did you even look at the picture? Show me Gouki doing an electric shoryuken in canon please.
[quote]
Well, considering that he shouted the incantation for it in the 2nd last picture (the one I originally found and used), everything before that is moot – he’s just taunting Gouken.
Here is the actual sequence of events (considering you posted the screens in the correct chronological order).
1.) Gouki fires a shakunetsou hadouken at Gouken. It hits.
2.) Gouki throws a high knee(“THWAK”) at Gouken (that’s not the Shungokusatsu, lol), which hits.
3.) You see Gouki reaching out with his palm towards Gouken.
4.) Gouken yells out his top student’s name.
5.) Gouki screams “SHUN GOKU SATSU!”
Why on Earth did you “insert” the words “*'Shungokusatu' Gouki Glides towards Gouken*“ before the “Perhaps your student, Ryu…” panel, where it clearly shows that Gouki was just beating on and taunting Gouken in the other panels on the scan of that page?[/qutoe]
Wtf, so Gouki just puts his hand on peoples head to use shungokusatsu now? Haha
Thats a high knee to the face? Wow he can knee people in the face on his toes without bending there face down, oddly enough whenever Gouki uses shungokusatsu he has that exact pose he has: (please log in to view the image)
Quite funny eh? Its the exact pose just as Gouki uses shungokusatsu in canon, however in your eyes its just a high knee, then Gouki somehow launches his shungokusatsu with a hand on the face rofl.
"He hits Gouken with a flame hadouken, a high knee…he doesn’t perform Shungokusatsu until after."
Once again you see something totally ridiculous to try to prove a point when normal logical people would see this picture: (please log in to view the image)
They'd see the picture how it actually is, one arm behind his leg (which is right).
The victim is supposed to be like melted, and the corpse is supposed to be in horrendous shape, Gouken's body was totally intact just bloody.
In regular comic logic, if a long time has pased it would state it, or atleast put it on seperate pages the fact that they were basically on the same panel and page suggests that not much time has passed.
So you're saying Gouki's Tenma Gou Zankuukou just makes holes while Ryu's hadouken brings down entire giant buildings? I don't buy it.
So Ryu's hadoukens > Gouki's shakunetsu hadoukens? I don't buy that either, the animes are ridiculous imo, and they're non-canon for a reason.
I've already explained to you, however you still carry on trying to look at things strangely to attempt at amping up an Gouki.
Yet he doesn't even remember where he heard it from.
... your reference is from another person who doesn't remember where he heard it from.. great
I'm in dead water? Look at yourself, you even believe that non-canon udon comics are 100% their real abilities LOL.
....... your reference is word from another person who doesn't remember where he heard it from... stop bragging about it.
I'm not saying its 100% inaccurate but its just as accurate as any other fan-made comic based on Capcoms character/story.
The thing about you is, you think Udon has access to private information on Capcom or you think they work with the developers of the SF producer, they don't. Udon is a totally seperate company, Capcom just gives them permission to use their characters, and story just as long as they don't butcher it.
All this is simply noise.
What i said is all true, its normal common sense, again your thinking that Udon and Capcom are in this join together but they're not, they entirely seperate companys
Use your brain here, Capcom only allows them to use their characters and story just as long as they don't butcher it, Udon just writes interesting crap to sell comics, they change the story somewhat to their likings etc, NONE of the things they write can be taken as a characters ability, they know just as much about SF as a fan does, nothing more, they don't get any private information on capcom or work with the producers or anything.
The thing is, he doesn't even remember where he heard it from.
I asked for "proof" and you showed me Udon comics and a SvC video game......... come on now..... honestly...
And who brought up SvC Orochi Gouki and UDON comic Gouki in the first place? Dear lord you're a genius.
Logic does, watch the video, they celebrate the 3, then Gouki does shungokusatsu, you really think they're just going to stand there for SEVERAL HOURS and just watch?
If you're not, then don't bring them up.
Now you've gone from "effort" to "motives" and clinging as much as you can on to find something similar, Sephiroth and Gouki had entirely different effort, AND motives, you've gone so far from your original statement that i don't even know what you're talking about or even care anymore.
Alright so i skipped reading the first couple pointless paragraphs as to save me some time.
Onto the the "instant transmission" it wasn't an obvious joke, it seemed like you were trying to prove a point that instant transmission is instant hence the name describes it, just as instant hell murder, how the hell am i supposed to know its a joke? It wasn't funny or even clever it was just stupid, which i thought was another one of your unintelligent posts.
Uhh show me Gouki's gou-shoryuken emitting electricity please. (in canon that is)
I pieced the frames in the wrong order? Wtf are you talking about? What frames? You mean the pages? That is in the RIGHT order , Gouki beats up Gouken, does shungokusatsu, next page full shot of shungokusatsu, next page, shows the dojo.
See, now you're picking and choosing what you want from comics and stating the rest are bs, just the ones you want, the thing is, if a comic contains ridiculous and unrealistic things, it loses all its credibility.
Again Udon has no superior knowledge to Capcom then any other hardcore SF fan. Udon and Capcom are seperate companies.
SO WHAT? You don't see the fight so you cannot assume that, hell imagine Ryu landed that Hadouken and put Gouki out of commision, he can throw Gouki around by his head, or fire hadoukens all he wants, he didn't dominate Gouki that fight, but if you just didnt see the fight and saw only Ryu throwing Gouki by his head you would claim the same thing. Does it mean its accurate? No.
HAHA you're obviously frustrated at failing to prove anything, thats why you've been resorting to personally insulting me which I find quite hilarious, its alright, i've dealt with many crybabies before.
This entire debate in general is to get proof out of you, which isn't working. All i'm getting is a childlike rant out of you.
Evidence of what? Honestly you're obviously not understanding this debate, its about YOU here, and about YOUR proof, why the hell would i have evidence of your non-existant proof?
Umm thats you there, i've been debating properly until you started getting all childish but i understand because you're frustrated at your lack of capability to prove anything.
I “pick” at the similarities/differences between the various Gouki’s in different SF/crossover games, if you haven’t noticed. Not sure how they make Gouki look innately “good”, but that’s just you talking.
And like i said earlier, Gouki is supposedly based on Sheng Long rumour/hoax, now should I start using magazine rumour/hoax as debates with a mindset that it might possibily become canon? No.
No, you brought up CvS2 to use it as an argument of shungokusatsu being instant, but like i said if ridiculous things happen in a non-canon games, it loses its credibility(besides the fact that it already has no credibility)
Stop saying "Away you go now" praying that i'm not going to reply, because i always will when i have something to say, keep posting pointless crap like that for all i care you're only wasting your own time.
The fact is, you're changing the words around so it fits the way you want it to, it does NOT say "Part of this move" it says "With this move"
The meaning of "with this move" means its about to describe the MOVE (as a whole, not part of it)
So:
“With this move, one’s own life would be cut off in a moment.” (that doesn't describe the last part of the move, it describes the move as a whole, hence "WITH THIS MOVE" and not "The very end of the move")
Describing the move entirely (yes entirely, not partly) : one's own life will be cut off in a moment
You cannot deny that.
If you don't change words around, THAT is its definition
However i see your view, but that only works if you change words around, sorry but its true.
Yes, full what I anticipated – and hey, you used excessive insulting, sarcasm, and trolling too. Why am I not surprised?
The effect of being factually wrong has quite an interesting effect on some people, namely, you.
Rant all you like, Terry, but it doesn’t change what Udon nor Capcom stated.
Unless you come up with something proper, other than figuratively frothing and raving, maybe even some proof of your own….you’re simply noise.
Wrong, if the entire comic itself that Udon wrote was considered non-canon, including all aspects of it, they would have just generalized by saying something like “Anything and everything used or viewed in this comic is non-canon”. Udon would not have specified the story and just the story, and even furthermore would have not bothered to mention that the story of the comic was less focused on (sullying the canon factor of the plot even further), and making sure that the “spirit” of Street Fighter was preserved more, than the plot.
You’re trying to coalesce all the factors that matter when writing a comic into one big jumble, when they’re each unique and contribute to the production of the comic in its own way.
And I had already aquisiced to the story not being canon a very long time ago, in fact one of the passages from Tiamat’s plot guide said as such; why do you even bother to bring this up? You’re making, yet again, a nonexistent point for the sake of continuing to post.
Udon doesn’t write a canon story, but they issued a statement that they were not focusing on the story, just the spirit/soul of Street Fighter – in other words, they were trying to capture the essence of SF in a comic.
I’m sure that if absolutely nothing in the comic was in fact, non-canon, they would have just made a lazy statement that said, “Absolutely nothing in this comic can be used as canon”. Why on Earth would they go through the trouble of addressing each and every non-canon factor when in fact nothing was, and they could have just simply generalized and trumped everything in one blow?
Apparently your obsessive thoughts were not even able to realize that. This is getting almost pathetic.
Wait for what?
Actually, here’s a quick test.
Did that small explosion on the rooftop signify the beginning of the SGS?
The middle, where he’s dragging Rugal through hell?
The end, where he finally emerges from Hell with his victim at his feet?
The correct answer here, Terry, is….”I don’t know”.
You see, we’re not able to form any accurate conjecture based on the fact that we saw one explosion from one rooftop, and in a “still” picture at that. However, in your deluded mind, we are able to draw a conclusion somehow, again an incident I will chalk up to your obsession to continue posting.
The absurdity of this statement is so profound and obviously ironic that I cannot describe it in words.
I said I wouldn’t be surprised, not that I’d believe – they’re two different things.
Also I mentioned not only that it was non-canon, but that I would refuse to use it because it was a feat, not a Capcom-original ability.
You’re jumping at shadows, Terry.
That’s his shoryuken, simply with a bit of ki energy attached to it. He’s obviously a master of manipulating ki and using it, on par with the kind of control shown by Oro – why can’t he use his energies to power his fist up? Look at his charge while doing the Tenma Gou Zankuukou, it displays lightning too.
You like visual aids, right? (please log in to view the image)
There.
Despite the obvious trolling, I’ll actually do you the favor of putting you down immediately so you’re not forced to suffer.
You need to explain to me two things:
1.) The use of the “THWAK” onomatopoeia, a clear sign of a blow struck, when there’s no blows struck by Gouki during the course of the Shungokusatsu, how and no demons in sight.
2.) How you are able to form a wild conjecture using Gouki stretching out his palm.
(please log in to view the image)
Also, let’s compare poses, now that you suggested it. See: (please log in to view the image)
All I have to say about the magnitude of incorrectness and ignorance in your argument here is that it generates some pretty good laughs on my part, so thanks for that.
Did you provide me the actual picture? No.
Which is why I said, “If you were referring to that picture of Gouken at the bottom of the last frame…”
You’re factually in no position to call me out on this, so don’t even try.
If that’s your definition of “totally fine”, this kind of really confirms my accusation earlier of someone having to be beaten to within an inch of their life to be classified as “owned”.
Where’d you hear this part? Show me.
Okay, so apparently his arm wasn’t ripped off after all. Oh well.
You have to remember, this is Gouken we are talking about, he has a body that can endure about as much as Gouki can (and by 3S he was able to endure the deep pressure of the ocean). If it was someone “normal”, then I suppose they would be totally in shreds. And, yes, you can very see by the huge patches of black all over his body and legs that he was burned.
“Comic logic”? Where are you basing this off of?
You can’t really tell whether hours, or minutes, has passed; this is what I’m saying, using a comic panel as a time references Is unremarkably faulty – this is why I always try to avoid using it. Your “comic” logic serves no purpose here – in some of the actual comics, such as X-Men (White Crown Phoenix), sometimes even entire years have passed in between a single frame and another.
Oh, and a really rich one:
Well, first of all it's already been proven - you're ranting on about it and resorting to what I refer to as "shadow" trolling; essentially consisting of copying of the user's posts and purposefully using hypocrisy and misplaced laughter in an attempt to spite the other opponent.
Personal insults? Ok....and what do you call this nonsense of yours throughout the rest of this post? Again, proving my point for me. We already know you're obsessed by now, Terry. Thanks.
Jumping out of the frying pan and into the fire, I see.
Alright, show me this panel from the comic then, and how it was clearly just a “regular” hadouken.
You haven’t explained anything, Terry, that I have not been able to counter.
Basically your argument simply consists of “it’s non canon”, over and over again, despite the fact that Dark-Jaxx has informed us that the Udon comic shows the canon abilities of the SF’ers – and from the
Lol, but he/she does remember it from somewhere, that’s what matters.
If this is all you can come up with, it’s not going to disprove it in any way, shape, or form.
“But he can’t remember where he heard it!”
He heard it from an official source, otherwise it would have not been included in the guide. ” I'm positive they stated this, although I forget exactly where (it was in an interview, though. Possibly a DVD extra)”
One, he’s not sure where but he’s positive that it does exist.
Two, he did manage to remember that it was from an interview with Capcom, which are quite acceptable as “official”.
I’m definitely not the one clutching at straws here, Terry, oh no.
Are you still ranting about that?
Can you please post something constructive, instead of simply trolling?
“Fan-made comic” and “ a comic produced by a legitimate comic company and checked over by Capcom themselves” are two entirely different things, Terry.
Not sure why you don’t seem to understand that. Also not sure where you got the grounds to form such a violently general observation like this.
Whoa whoa whoa, when did I say this? Please don’t tell me you’ve resorted to putting words in my mouth – that would be a brand new low.
Thing is, Terry, they don’t have to have “access” to “private information on Capcom”, the very idea is ridiculous. The whole deal behind the Udon is that they have to have Capcom’s approval on everything. Tiamat also refers to it briefly. ”…and there are many details in it where Udon (the comic's creators) ask for details from Capcom regarding various things.
There you have it. I guess that’s what you can call “private” information (I’m still not sure why Capcom would keep information on their characters “private” if they, as you said, wanted to prevent Udon from butchering them – it defies logic.) What they don’t know, they ask – any writer basing his material off of someone else’s media does this. If you were aware of the amount of collaboration between Richard A. Knaak and Chris Metzen while Knaak was writing the WarCraft novels, then you’d understand.
0/10 for originality.
2/10 for style.
2/10 for relevance.
Oh, and by the way…I’d advise not copying me. Thanks.
No - it’s not common sense at all, I base my arguments off of direct statements from the two companies, respectively to the content. (That’s not what I’m “thinking” at all, by the way, and I advise you to try and stop putting words in my mouth or telling me what I’m thinking – doesn’t make you look good)
It’s only “common” sense to you because it makes sense to you, and you’re refusing to believe that some aspects are canon while others are not (all this I have shown you with direct evidence)
Again, read above.
This entire speech of yours is moot. There’s no need for “private information” concerning characters when there isn’t anything to hide, and while they don’t actually “work” with Capcom directly, they do collaborate with each other concerning a lot of details that would be, at best, classified as “minor”. It happens in whatever crossover media that any companies happen to feel like expanding on.
The very idea that Capcom would just happily let Udon write what they wanted and go with it is beyond ridiculous – Tiamat’s stated that they are checked over and approved – apparently that’s still not good enough for you. Not even if statements from Udon or Capcom strongly suggest against what you believe – no, that’s still not good enough for you.
Goodness, Terry, is there anything good enough for you, besides coming directly from the company themselves?
It’s interesting how you accuse me of nitpicking (after I accuse you of it, no less) and then bring up obscure, totally irrelevant and outdated points such as this (even after they’re moot) for no apparent reason at all.
Considering that you’re using the Rugal fight from CvS2 now actively in an attempt to prove to me that Shungokusatsu does not take hours (which I have already proven that it does), this sort of contradicts your nonsense words here completely.
A lesson on hasty statements for you, I feel.
Look back, I was commenting on likelihoods and similarities between the canon and non-canon abilities, to reinforce YOUR point, out of all points.
How am I supposed to debate with someone who doesn’t even understand when his point is being supported, and when it’s not? The very idea is outrageous.
Watch what?
You telling me that you’re forming a conjecture solely because you saw a frame of an explosion ? Again, simply supposition and assumption.
I can almost imagine you attempting to bail out of what you said by falling back to your classic “It’s non canon, disregard it”.
Oh okay, so you’ve been arguing semantics this entire time instead of the topic at hand. I really should have realized this earlier.
I told you not to take things too literally – the parallelisms between the two conflicts, in terms of mentality (yet again, I told you…effort stems from motives…please try to understand that much, at least) are quite remarkable. If you wish to continue to nitpick at this, feel free…but they’re wasted words anyway.
To be honest, it appears as though this statement can be applied to most of my posts.
Praying that you’re not going to reply, when I actually said “I fully anticipate your next post…” just prior to that? Ok…are you reading all my posts properly, here? Do you understand them all?
Not only that, this simply just shows anyone and everyone who’s reading how utterly immersed you are in this debate. You even said it yourself, “I always will when I have something to say” – yeah, apparently even when it’s deconstructive to the debate itself and you know it.
Again…digging your own grave. And from the looks of it, enjoying it too.
Lol, ok…
And what have you been doing, Terry? What do you call posting the type of deconstructive and circular arguments, not to mention all the trolling, faulty logic, and incorrect references or proof? Do you call this debating? Do you call replying to something that's already been proven, with evidence to boot, without a shadow of a doubt...."debating"?
You clearly have no idea what debating really is. At least, not in this debate.
Go on, how can you defend yourself on that, then justify saying something like this?
Ignore my points, ignore my posts….you’re getting quite predictable.
Because I laughed?
You’re at the point where you fail to recognize it as a joke – it’s two different worlds, one where people destroy worlds with beams projected from hands…any purposeful comparison to DBZ is really, really, stupid.
Once more; It’s a joke – now get over it, and stop complaining about it like a petulant child.
Ah, ever the subjective one aren’t we, Terry.
Despite the ridiculous amount of rhetorical questions – yes, that is what I refer to.
It’s not the ones I “want” – why on Earth would I base a point off of sole subjectivity? It’s opinion, which is moot – I refer to the testament from Udon that the storylines were non-canon, as were the feats that were also, because of that, non-canon.
The Capcom-original specials, shinryuken, shungokusatsu, etc…they can’t be counted as part of the plot itself really, they’re already there in the first place.
KMC Community Forums
Sep 6th, 2008 08:11 AM
” 
you must be a true fanboy if you honestly believe Gouki can just jump out of orbit and blow up a meteor a quarter the size of earth.
