In direct fights, Superman and Cap have always been portrayed as relative equals. Now, while I genuinely think Superman is superior in several aspects, it isn't to the extent that Cap is Thing level in comparison. Not nearly.
The comics support them being relative equals more often than not.
in direct confrontation yes. But in general Superman's villain history speaks for itself. While this is more company bias than anything else it does not change the fact that Superman is the go to guy more often than Captain Marvel and his record shows it.
Of course he is, and his feats are the primary reason I believe he's superior. People can argue that Cap has less feats, and that's fine, but even when picking the best of the best, Superman edges it for me.
In your average, "oh no there's a misunderstanding and now they have to fight" situation, though, they always get written as being somewhat equal, so either way it's going to be a close fight unless we talk about amping and such.
Cite issue numbers or scans of Nazi turning Captain Marvel back into Billy. Or issues/scans of Superman creating lightning outside of herding weather phenomenon (which Cap has done himself).
Personally, I love the idea that Superman's history of struggling with Captain Marvel is thrown out of the window in favor for this idea that in a forum setting, Superman suddenly operates on a level that blows Cap out of the water, ignoring the fact that Cap's magical offense has, can, and most certainly will be a huge factor against Kal.
If Superman does win, it's 6/10 at best unless you want to bring a Superman that doesn't exist into play here.
Nobody said it would be easy, or that Cap's magical offense will be forgotten. Just like Superman's ability to cut loose to an extreme degree can't be either.
Superman is superior to CM because his better battle speed (vibrate through attacks and such), better fighting skill (martial art ability with pressure points and such), freeze breath (used to slow down his foe momentarily), and HV (added damage to his own strikes) outweighs CM magical advantages.
On the question of Superman's limits being higher, why is that necessarily the case?
A CM from a different universe was able to help lift 'half of infinite number of pages', and the only reason they used one from another universe is because mainstream Billy was out of commission after Trials of Shazam and the fallout from that arc.
And its not like mainstream Billy wasn't consistently shown or stated to be an equal, so the believability factor should be a *non*factor.
And yeah, sort of like Herc and Thor being equals. Which they are physically. Herc's respect factor in Marvel has been relatively less than Cap's in DC's has been though, that is until Chaos War. Now Herc at his greatest levels ever is better than Thor at his greatest levels ever.
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Last edited by CosmicComet on Oct 14th, 2011 at 03:35 AM
When it's time to save the day, Superman will always go above and beyond other superheroes. There are also stories like OWAW, it's a specific point that Superman is far beyond his "peers" in raw physical power.
Best case scenario for Billy is that he'll rival Superman in might and magic will give him the edge. Best case scenario for Clark is reaching an entirely different level.
But like I said, there are going to be rivals more or less.
I think saying that because on an average day Cap and Supes are peers means that they must always be equal (and sillier still that we should give Cap the benefit of the doubt and assume he can match/duplicate all Superman's high end showings) is unfounded and wishful thinking from Cap fans.
...Eat it Jake.
You miss the "physical" part? I don't care if CW Herc is > to RKT. That's a red herring that has no bearing on what I'm talking about.
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“Where the longleaf pines are whispering
to him who loved them so.
Where the faint murmurs now dwindling
echo o’er tide and shore."
-A Grave Epitaph in Santa Rosa County, Florida; I wish I could remember the man's name.
Again, a Cap from another universe lifted 'half of infinity', and only because the mainstream one wasn't available at the time. And its not like the mainstream one wasn't getting the equivalency spot carved out for him in the first place--even outside of comics such as in shorts like return of black adam and even the latest handbook stats, so there's no reason not to believe he could have done so if he was there.
I know Superman is the hero, but that doesn't mean his actual stats are higher. He's just going to save the day because that's what he does.
I think its more wishful thinking on Superman side of the argument that he's suddenly going to kick to another level and overrun CM when the latter holds back in their fights as well and no evidence gets presented for those fights that Superman is somehow handicapping himself to fight down to an opponent that he even *internally* acknowledges as an equal.
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Last edited by CosmicComet on Oct 14th, 2011 at 03:47 AM
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Oct 13th, 2011 11:20 PM
