It's been said many times that the Force is split evenly into two sides, Dark and Light. Neither can overpower the other in theory, but Episode III would seem to contradict this.
Palpatine masterminded a grand scheme and successfully overthrew the Republic and the Jedi with the aid of Anakin Skywalker. When Yoda and Palpatine fought, it was clear Palpatine was the stronger.
This would seem to contradict the idea of the duality of the Force. It seemed that the Dark Side really was stronger, at least in the PT.
Registered: Sep 2000
Location: Chelmsford, Essex, UK
Co-Admin
Yoda is clear in saying it is not stronger.
It SEEMS stronger because the Dark Side can get you what you want. This is its lure for Anakin- he sees in Dark what he could never achoeve in Light.
But it is a false strength. As GL describes it, whilst the Light side lives in symbiotic balance, working together in harmony, the Dark Side lives in a parasitic cycle, feeding upon and destroying itself. It cannot last; only the Light can.
So- quicker, easier, more seductive. But only a fool would think it actually more powerful just because you can achieve a few short-term goals with it.
And whilst to my mind, Windu had the better of Palpatine, that point is irrelevant- it just shows that Palpatine is better (or worse), not his side of the Force; this being a drama then inevitably the main bad guy will be high-powered.
__________________
"We've got maybe seconds before Darth Rosenberg grinds everybody into Jawa burgers and not one of you buds has the midi-chlorians to stop her!"
Good points. However, is it not true that good and evil are fairly dependent on one's point of view (as Obi-Wan was so fond of saying)?
Some would say to do something well requires passion; serenity is certainly a desirable mindset but lack of passion can often leave one in the dust.
I believe Yoda and Mace understood this, as the two of them appeared to indulge in a little anger from time to time without being consumed by it. Mace used it to fuel his Vaapad and Yoda appeared to understand that the Force does not wholly control the wielder just as the wielder does not fully control the Force.
The whole Bad vs. Good (Dark--Light), and if Yoda lost to Palpatine on purpose or not has been endlessly debated time and again. The whole dark and Light thing of the Force is exactly what people tend to love about this Opera, and is why most fans hate NJO. The series contradicts GL's (and everybody's) view that Good and Evil is a timeless battle, by saying that their IS no Light or Dark.
Evil and Darkness will never be ousted, it'll always return, only to get his ass whooped by Light, so that their's a brief intermission in the "dual."
__________________ Recently Produced and Distributed Young but High-Ranking Political Figure of Royal Ancestry within the Modern American Town Affectionately Referred To as Bel-Air.
I never mentioned NJO for that reason, actually. I'm well aware of this forum's open hostiliy towards EU so I'm very careful to avoid references to it.
I believe, however, that there is evidence in the films that supports some of the things the Potentium view of the Force espouses. The Jedi Master Qui-Gon Jinn is perhaps the greatest example of this.
However, it appears there is no one interested in discussing this. Perhaps I would have better luck on the EU board?
You can lock this thread anytime, I misplaced it, and for that I apologize.
Registered: Jun 2005
Location: The Dune Sea, Tatooine
The darkside is indeed stronger. It means letting go of any morals and living off of your emotions. It means being wild. Without morals keeping you in check you have more oppurtunities to explore new dark secrets. The darkside will always be stronger than the light, because it puts no limits on itself like the light does. The light will always be weaker, because it follows a moral and thus more constricted path of what is right. If you belong to the light side, you are missing half of the spectrum of power available, so unfortunately, the light will always be weaker. BUT, the light will always prevail over the dark. It is weaker, but it is right. the dark is stronger, but its evil. The right comes with rewards, while the evil always gets punished. Its like heaven and hell. So, it may sound contradictory, but the weaker (the light side) will always prevail over the stronger but evil darkside.
The Dark just feeds on itself until it eventually destroys itself, it promises power and oppurtunity, but it just drains you.
__________________ Recently Produced and Distributed Young but High-Ranking Political Figure of Royal Ancestry within the Modern American Town Affectionately Referred To as Bel-Air.
The Drak Side is a bonus. im not sure if it's stronger in reality, but its very irrestisable.
I mean look:
If You're good you get: 1)Lighting, 2)Push, 3)Pull, 4)Mind Trick, 5) and if ur a master read minds.
If you're Bad you get: 1)Lighting, 2)Push, 3)Pull, 4)Mind Trick, 5) Drain, 6) Grip/Choking, 7) REalLY COOL EYES, and if ur a master
8) read minds.
I'd probably go to the Dark Side quickly b/c.. Hey you get to choke people. I'd be in school and if my teacher made me mad i'd be like..
***** (choke) YOU WANNA FUK WITH ME?? (throw against the wall)
CHANGE THE FUKING GRADE DAMMIT!
I do share this belief though it seems to run contrary to what GL says. Balance is such a subjective term, and the Force is often described as a river that Jedi can dip into, but never reach the bottom. Of course, Jedi are not the only ones to 'go swimming' as it were.
Well, it depends on how one perceives strength. If I were in a battle, and had to choose between possessing the powers of a Jedi versus the powers of a Sith Lord, I would choose the Sith Lord. In battle, they have the advantage of offensive Force-powers and the rage that goes along with aggression and brute force.
Yoda and Palpatine are the paragons of the opposite side of the Force. Palpatine was powerful enough to shield himself from the Jedi Order, and that required a vast amount of ability to do. However, this cannot all be attributed to Palpatine. We do not know if it was he who caused the veil to slip over their eyes - or if he were simply reaping the benefits of it.
The balance of the Force tipped from light supremacy to dark supremecy. It was clear that Yoda wasn't going to win in his showdown with the Emperor. However, it is because Yoda is weaker? I don't know. Or could it be a side-effect of the fact that the Force is now supporting the Dark Side?
Palpatine was no push-over, to be sure. It was obvious that of all the movie characters, it was he and he alone who possessed the ability to put Yoda to the test. But was he more powerful? No. They were equal. Yoda could defend himself against Palpatine's lightning, but he could never break through Palpatine's defenses. According to the official script - Yoda was meant to basically defeat Palpatine - but Palpatine was going to win because of luck.
I disagree with Lucas's reasoning here, considering how Revenge of the Sith should be designed on how the Sith won and how the Jedi lost. But who am I to argue with the Lord of Inconsistancy?
Palpatine represents the true embodiment of evil. He is without a doubt my favorite character. He duped the Jedi, he took over the galaxy, and he masterminded the destruction of the Republic. He deserves credit and the fact that he did this without them discovering until HE decided to reveal himself speaks a lot. He won, and that's that.
But on NEUTRAL ground - COMPLETELY neutral - I do believe Yoda might beat Sidious in the end. The site says otherwise. But the script disagrees with the site. On normal conditions, the script would win - but the script wasn't entirely used - and can't be considered 100 percent valid.
Sep 8th, 2005 05:13 PM
