I think Luke was a Jedi but the only reason he won is because his Father didn't really wan't to kill him. If he had a fight with Dooku or Maul he would be toast. BUT there is one thing, if Sidius is so powerful why didn't he turn on his lightsaber in ROTJ and slice luke into little pieces. He should have sensed that Vader would turn on him, after all even Luke was able to see the future in TESB.
He didn't expect it. The future is clouded no matter how clear it may seem... Yoda says so himself, and why didn't he kill Luke? Because he wanted Vader to do it. Vader should have killed Luke or be killed. That was the real test to see if his apprentice was worthy and if not he could immediately get a new apprentice.
Remember also that Palpy does the same thing in ROTS in the Windu duel. He brings himself to the mercy of Windu, hoping that Anakin turns to the darkside. I guess it is a leap of faith. He knows that if he can't turn Anakin to the dark side, he can't execute his plans, so he mine as well risk it all to persue his goals. It works, and Anakin helps him.
In ROTJ, same situation. He knows that he needs an apprentice still. He figures, he doesn't care if it's Vader or Luke, he just needs one of them. So, simply let them duel it out and the winner will have killed a family member, obviously prolonging Anakins dark side, or turning Luke to the dark side. Either way, he wins. He just didn't see the X factor, of Vader actually turning on him.
Vader isn't weak, so maybe he can hide things from Palpy in the same way that Palpy was able to hide things from the Jedi council for all those years. Maybe he can hide the love deep down that he felt for Luke from Palpy right to the final moment.
Registered: Apr 2005
Location: My Sanctum Sanctorum
In ROTJ, I agree he wasn't a very powerful Jedi. Mace Windu or Ki-Adi-Mundi probably could have eaten him for breakfast. NJO Luke is obviously very powerful after all his trials, though.
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I don't know what it is about people misquoting me all the time. For those who can't read very well, this isn't a discussion about whether Luke becomes powerful in NJO or anything like that when he is older. I clearly said:
Some people think Luke was very well trained and very powerful at the time of ROTJ, but I totally disagree. That is what the thread was meant to discuss.
I could honestly give a shit whether EU says Luke is the strongest ever. The movies clearly paint him out to be a farm boy with little or no real Jedi skills. I mean the kid had to actually throw the rock to close the gate on that monster. Any other half way decent 10 year old Padawan would simply have used the force to toss the rock at the control panel. But not douchebag Luke. He had to pick it up, aim, and throw it and hope like hell he hit it.
He's a tool, and Vader could have sliced and diced him in roughly 3 seconds if he wanted to.
This may be a little off topic but why are the Lars family so angry at Ben for, rememeber Owen didnt want Luke to talk to him because they said he was a crazy hermit.
They just might get a little attached to Luke after those years. As soon as he would meet ben, he would be taken with him to do what he is foreseen to be doing in the future.
Why couldn't Ben just keep him and train him from the birth?
Some people think Luke was very well trained and very powerful at the time of ROTJ, but I totally disagree.
What do you mean by power?
What is true "power"?
I think you are missing the whole point of the saga here. "Wars not make one great"
I could honestly give a shit whether EU says Luke is the strongest ever.
I agree.
The movies clearly paint him out to be a farm boy with little or no real Jedi skills.
Well, if by "the movies" you mean half of ANH, then I might entertain
your unique standpoint.
I mean the kid had to actually throw the rock to close the gate on that monster.
LOL
Any other half way decent 10 year old Padawan would simply have used the force to toss the rock at the control panel. But not douchebag Luke. He had to pick it up, aim, and throw it and hope like hell he hit it.
He's a far more human hero, that is his power.
He's a tool, and Vader could have sliced and diced him in roughly 3 seconds if he wanted to.
I take it you've never watched ROTJ any futher than the Rancor bit then - I recommend you do...
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Registered: May 2005
Location: United States
Ohio
Bettsville
if you know anything the padawans of the old jedi order would simply hit the switch with the forc second luke was still training to be a jedi. all he had was some files from obi-wons place on tattoin so he had to teach himself and i dont get were people come up with obi-wons spirit teaching him. they only gave him guigence when he truly needed it like when he destroyed the first death star. plus his uncle Owen wouldnt let oby-won teach him as a child because he didnt want him to be like his father.