Registered: May 2005
Location: .::The Anti-Fanboy Confederation::.
Account Restricted
[QUOTE=5342602]Originally posted by Escape81 Indeed; not to mention when Kenobi blocked it, he did so with one hand and with ease. And he and Dooku were roughly ten or so feet apart. But then you compare this to Mace, who is a supremely superior Jedi when compared to Kenobi, and who may very well be on Dooku's own level. He struggled immensely to hold the lightning at bay. Not to mention that when it finally did strike - it sent him into such spasms that he was flung out the window - and far beyond anything Dooku sent Anakin to.
No. It's a supreme stretch saying Dooku is the more powerful Force user.
Akwardly, I don't remember Kenobi dodging Force Lightning. Hell, it isn't even in the goddamn script. That's weird!
I also remember Kenobi not being able to dodge Dooku lifting him up, choking him and throwing him under a gargantuan platform.
Dooku sprayed Anakin with one hand (Not two!) and sent him flying back into wall where Anakin had smoke seering off of him. Remove the wall. See how much farther he could have gone if there was no wall. Not to mention the fact that he wasn't using two handed Lightning and he didn't have to charge up.
__________________
An Ancient Prophecy . . . The deity shall walk forth . . .
b) Dark Side points would be earned. Why don't you go around and ask anyone. 'Killing' a person, especially when it's not in self defense, is a little thing called 'murder'. Murder is a sin, no matter how hard you color it up. And, even in the Star Wars universe, repetative use of such 'sins' can draw one closer to the Dark Side. Anakin gave into his anger and hatred for Count Dooku, and executed. So yes. It was indeed for Dark Side points. Dooku was simply too scared to attack Sidious, when the man was shackled to a damn chair. Color it up the way you like.
Facts:
a) Sidious wanted to turn Anakin to the Dark Side. Killing Count Dooku helped. FACT (!)
b) If Dooku wanted to betray his master, he tried to turn Anakin, and something stopped him from laying waste to Sidious (if he even could) while he was shackled to the throne. FACT (!)
c) Perhaps he could've blocked it. Or perhaps not. Yoda was NOT looking to kill Dooku, otherwise he would've chucked the pods back. You speak of Ianus and Nai. Hop on over and ASK Nai his theories on this fight.
d) 'Moorings' are the things that connected the pods to the wall. They were also static, like Dooku's debris. Dooku struggled, and used both hands to rip the debris out. Sidious chucked pods that were THE SAME SIZE (notice I did NOT say weight) as if they were PAPERWADS. Now, at the same time. Let me ask you:
Give me proof that the debris was bigger.
And, even if they were. Let's see... Let's say that the debris WAS around 700 lbs. And the pods weighed each 500 lbs. There were three pods that Sidious chucked with ease, so 3 x 500 lbs is 1500 lbs compared to Dooku's 700 lbs debris, so Sidious not only potentially lifted MORE, but the heavier object. I have a hard time believing that his debris weighed more than ALL THREE pods put together. And again. Sidious chucked them WITH EASE.
e) Well, again. ANYONE is CAPABLE OF DEFEATING THOSE WHO ARE MORE POWERFUL THAN THEY ARE (!). Kenobi vs Anakin and Sidious vs Vader. So, even IF Dooku were stronger in the Force (which he's not), Sidious is STILL capable of killing him.
f) Then have Ianus and Nai get involved. Both are extremely capable debators and certainly beyond myself. But, in the same token, I'll still argue against it until I see evidence or an EXTREMELY well put together opinion that can convince me otherwise. And -YOU- lack both.
g) No. In fact, if I were to have any bias, I'd probably have a Kun, Ragnos, or Yoda bias before I would for Sidious. You'll find me 'cheering' for DE Sidious, who 'IS' powerful. Moreso than Yoda or Dooku (sorry if that offends you, but DE Sidious would hand Dooku's ass to him, but that's beside the point). And Sidious's intellect is among the most capable Star Wars characters. He's easily the greatest in the PT and OT.
h) This isn't always the case. Traya ? Ragnos ? Revan ? Those three are just some of the few. If the apprentices ARE stronger, they will rip the mantle of Dark Lord from their masters. Which unfortunately, Dooku never did.
i) If he were the more powerful Force user of the two, he would BE the more powerful SITH. More power does NOT mean more experience. If Dooku had more POWER, then Sidious's superior experience would be negated. Dooku does NOT have the title. So explain to me THAT.
Registered: May 2005
Location: .::The Anti-Fanboy Confederation::.
Account Restricted
b) Dark Side points would be earned. Why don't you go around and ask anyone. 'Killing' a person, especially when it's not in self defense, is a little thing called 'murder'. Murder is a sin, no matter how hard you color it up. And, even in the Star Wars universe, repetative use of such 'sins' can draw one closer to the Dark Side. Anakin gave into his anger and hatred for Count Dooku, and executed. So yes. It was indeed for Dark Side points. Dooku was simply too scared to attack Sidious, when the man was shackled to a damn chair. Color it up the way you like.
Facts:
a) Sidious wanted to turn Anakin to the Dark Side. Killing Count Dooku helped. FACT (!
It would look f*cking dumb on his part! He would have been alone and without no one if he killed Sidious! It isn't in Dooku's nature to kill an unarmed opponent. He isn't a True Sith! Sidious is the Sith Coward, NOT DOOKU! Dooku would not just run up to Palpatine and slash him. Then he wouldn't have Anakin as an apprentice. Anakin would have been like "WTF?!?! YOU KILLED TEH CHANCEY! CHANCEY ARE MEH FRIEND! HUZZAH!!!!!!!!"
It would have made Dooku look even worse to Anakin, whom he wanted as an apprentice. I am sure he didn't try to unlock his Anger for no reason. He was also talking of how Anakin had unatural powers in AOTC. He wanted him as an Apprentice after he tooled Palpsy.
b) If Dooku wanted to betray his master, he tried to turn Anakin, and something stopped him from laying waste to Sidious (if he even could) while he was shackled to the throne. FACT (!)
Such disgusting Arrogance! You're slapping your Opinion down as fact? I am a Fanboy and even I don't try to pull that bullshit.
c) Perhaps he could've blocked it. Or perhaps not. Yoda was NOT looking to kill Dooku, otherwise he would've chucked the pods back. You speak of Ianus and Nai. Hop on over and ASK Nai his theories on this fight.
Nai WILL come here, don't worry. And I can assure you, he will be against you on this one.
He didn't need to chuck the Pods back. But he did chuck the Lightning back! And he did grunt and scream while attempting to kill Dooku!
d) 'Moorings' are the things that connected the pods to the wall. They were also static, like Dooku's debris. Dooku struggled, and used both hands to rip the debris out. Sidious chucked pods that were THE SAME SIZE (notice I did NOT say weight) as if they were PAPERWADS. Now, at the same time. Let me ask you:
Give me proof that the debris was bigger.
No one said it was bigger. SHAZAM!
I am sure if Sidious was Dooku's age, he would have struggled too.
And, even if they were. Let's see... Let's say that the debris WAS around 700 lbs. And the pods weighed each 500 lbs. There were three pods that Sidious chucked with ease, so 3 x 500 lbs is 1500 lbs compared to Dooku's 700 lbs debris, so Sidious not only potentially lifted MORE, but the heavier object. I have a hard time believing that his debris weighed more than ALL THREE pods put together. And again. Sidious chucked them WITH EASE.
Dooku had to lift the Machinery above the arching and then aim it directly at Yoda. It was directly behind Dooku and Dooku was on a straight base. Dooku had to turn around and aim it properly without a Down slope. Sidious had his pods almost directly above his head and did not have to aim them, but instead just pivoted them out of the wall and threw them in an akwardice positioning towards Yoda. Yoda was on the down slope. Because remember: Having the High Ground always helps, and as I recall, Sids had the high ground and Dooku and Yoda were equalized.
e) Well, again. ANYONE is CAPABLE OF DEFEATING THOSE WHO ARE MORE POWERFUL THAN THEY ARE (!). Kenobi vs Anakin and Sidious vs Vader. So, even IF Dooku were stronger in the Force (which he's not), Sidious is STILL capable of killing him.
Indeed, but even if Sidious was stronger in the Force (Which he is not) Dooku is STILL capable of killing him.
f) Then have Ianus and Nai get involved. Both are extremely capable debators and certainly beyond myself. But, in the same token, I'll still argue against it until I see evidence or an EXTREMELY well put together opinion that can convince me otherwise. And -YOU- lack both.
I am not the only one Lacking things around here.
g) No. In fact, if I were to have any bias, I'd probably have a Kun, Ragnos, or Yoda bias before I would for Sidious. You'll find me 'cheering' for DE Sidious, who 'IS' powerful. Moreso than Yoda or Dooku (sorry if that offends you, but DE Sidious would hand Dooku's ass to him, but that's beside the point). And Sidious's intellect is among the most capable Star Wars characters. He's easily the greatest in the PT and OT.
That's great, but DE Sidious is just beyond comprehensible power. Besides, Dooku isn't alive in DE times. Sidious needed HELP from ancient Dark Lords ressurecting him to obtain this power. Damn, If Dooku had that same help, well.... Figure it out.
h) This isn't always the case. Traya ? Ragnos ? Revan ? Those three are just some of the few. If the apprentices ARE stronger, they will rip the mantle of Dark Lord from their masters. Which unfortunately, Dooku never did.
Traya's apprentices smashed her, Sidious' apprentice smashed him, Malak smashed Revan in the beginning, and Sidious smashed Plageius. It is a streak in the Sith to betray their Masters, more powerful or not. And as we see, all of the above succeeded. And not all of them were more powerful, but alot of them were, Like DOOKU!
i) If he were the more powerful Force user of the two, he would BE the more powerful SITH. More power does NOT mean more experience. If Dooku had more POWER, then Sidious's superior experience would be negated. Dooku does NOT have the title. So explain to me THAT.
No he wouldn't! Sidious was more intelligent and had a great Knowledge of the Dark side. Being the stronger Sith isn't "Force, Force and Force" Like you seem to think.
__________________
An Ancient Prophecy . . . The deity shall walk forth . . .
Intellect and experience are all well and good. Vodo was smarter than Exar, but he was WEAKER. Sidious was smarter than Yoda and he was WEAKER. Traya is smarter than Revan, and she is supposedly WEAKER.
POWER is NOT measured by INTELLECT. IF this were the case, Sidious would be in the top THREE Sith Lords.
You're very imbecilic. Omg0zors!11!!! Malak smashed Revan! Yep, but he got wasted in the end, didn't he? And didn't Nihilius and Scion return under Traya's supervision?
'If Sidious were as old as Dooku, I'm sure he'd have struggled too'.
a) Speculation. Sorry, Sorgo.
b) If Age has anything to do with it, Yoda would have his ass handed to him by anyone. But it doesn't. Sorry, just looks like poor Count Dooku didn't have what it took to perform the feat easily.
Now. As for the 'arrogance'. You'll forgive me. But whereas you vent your frustration through anger and rage, I do so through other means. It is a bad habit, but one I am forced with - and like myself with your anger - one you'll have to endure.
a) 'Age' doesn't matter. If anything, it generally collects experience that youth does not. If age were an inability, Yoda would be very weak and very pathetic. But he's neither, despite being centuries older than Dooku or Sidious.
The debris Dooku tore was above him; not behind him. He simply had to break it away and drop it down on Yoda, who stopped it and carried it to the side.
Sidious tore three pods that were proportionately the same size, and possibly the same weight. All together, his pods surely had to have outweighed the debris, being made of metal and the fact that there were three of them. Sidious did this, my friend, with ease, whereas Dooku did not.
b) Power is not estimated by age or experience. Again, had this been the case, Vodo would've been more powerful than Kun. Traya would have been more powerful than Revan (I think she is, but that's just me). And Kenobi would've been more powerful than Anakin. But neither three were. Even though they were smarter, older, and more experienced, they were not more powerful, though you can make a case for Traya, due to her staggering innate Force powers.
So if Dooku were the more powerful FORCE-user, the title of the most powerful Sith Lord would be his. But it wasn't.
c) And Dooku's eyes were wide with fear and his teeth clenched. Yoda simply wore down Dooku's defenses, which forced the Count to flee.
In conclusion: I want to see where you can prove or at LEAST make a convincing argument where Sidious is the inferior Force user. I've given you some of mine. The website... the pods vs the debris... and so far, Sidious has been shown to be the stronger Force-user. I would like to see more 'argument' and 'evidence' from you, instead of fury.
We've been through this; and oddly, you've never commented on it. Be sure that you do. We've seen Sidious limp around on a cane when he was older, but also surrounded by thousands upon thousands of the Empire's soldiers.
Now. Fastforward to where he was alone, and in private. He didn't need the cane at all when he was just in Vader's presence - and Luke's. I do hope you recall this, or I shall surely remind you.
He walked down, up, back, and forth, from the steps and the throne room without the cane. Tell me, Sorgo, how can you revive this theory?
Registered: May 2005
Location: .::The Anti-Fanboy Confederation::.
Account Restricted
He walked down the stairs without his Cane and SLOWLY preceeded towards Luke. Very Slowly. And he practically stood there as he shocked Luke and took maybe a small few steps forward. He could hardly move.
__________________
An Ancient Prophecy . . . The deity shall walk forth . . .
No. It means Malak couldn't have done it face-to-face, or even in melee battle. He had to use a damn battleship to take out Revan; and he even failed at that. That'd be like me going up to Bill Gates, clubbing him in the back of the head, or shooting him, and then state I'm the richest man on the planet. Doesn't mean jack. You've done nothing to prove it.
And, look again.
Sidious moves very quickly when Luke first arrives. After he removes his bonds, and takes his lightsaber. Sorry, Sorgo. He only used the cane to make himself appear weak. Lucas called him (I think its the ROTJ commentary) 'a wolf in sheeps clothing'.
Registered: May 2005
Location: .::The Anti-Fanboy Confederation::.
Account Restricted
So... The thing you said with Malak, correct? If you take someone by surprise, It doesn't mean jack, right? Sidious is known to take his opponents by surprise, RIGHT? But you called that "Smart". So wouldn't Malak be using his "Smarts"? Or was he just cowardly like Sidious? I'll let you pick.
He means a Wolf in Sheeps clothing referring to the fact that he played a Bright Chancellor and ended up actually being a Dark Emperor. It has nothing to do with him moving around quickly.
He when took his Lightsaber, he moved his HANDS quickly and used the Force. Didn't see alot of jumping, running, walking fast or grabbing involed there.
__________________
An Ancient Prophecy . . . The deity shall walk forth . . .
a) What Malak did was 'smart', I never denied that. But he had to use a fricken' SHIP - as in a battleship - to take the mantle. But, Revan then proceeded to own him in battle thereafter, thus proving that Malak was not worthy.
b) Do not, for a moment, assume that you know what he's saying. Your age theory is busted, Sorgo. He didn't need the cane. He walked from his throne quite quickly and nimbly for an old man. He never used it when alone, with Vader or with Luke. But when there were potentially treacherous individuals around OR those who did not know of his power, he did not use the cane at all. Sorry, but he didn't need the cane.
c) At the same time, I didn't see that crap from Yoda, either. The jumps you speak of were few and far between from the characters of the PT. You had the occasional jumps, but lo and behold, it came from mostly Luke.
Gee... could it be that they didn't have the sophisticated stunt system that they do now, and that only the most fit and younger actors could have done it?
And, go to the Sidious databank, under the Expanded Universe. First paragraph, I believe.
Age and experience do not measure power. So if Dooku were the more powerful Force user, he would've had the title of most powerful Sith. But he did not.
Registered: May 2005
Location: .::The Anti-Fanboy Confederation::.
Account Restricted
a) Malak still ripped his Memory to shreds. If it weren't for Malak, it would have been a secret forever. Malak carefully left clues around so he would figure it out, and virtually told him near the end. Revan still owned him, but Malak still owned the Galaxy for a bit of time.
b) Halt for a f*cking second here. YOU'RE Assuming he didn't need the Cane. Can you provide any god damned proof he didn't need the Cane? Or is my Age Theory busted because you said so?
Don't try to talk outside of the movie, because that doesn't matters. That's like me saying "Dooku isn't the one who ripped Anakin to shreds because he had a hernia! SKA!"
You know it's getting sad when you have to try to climb outside of the movie.
__________________
An Ancient Prophecy . . . The deity shall walk forth . . .
Nov 10th, 2005 12:31 AM
