ah, but the murder is what makes it all so deliciously twisted and fun. love between two real pirates? it would be the most unique love story of all times... because pirates inevitably betray each other, break the law, and will do anything to save their own lives and pursue freedom.
love between two childhood sweethearts that undergoes a bit of transition and some slight tension? yawn yawn. been there, done that. love between a legendary crazy pirate and a spoiled society lady-turned murdering pirate king? I'm intrigued! What love could survive one killing the other-- and by manipulating him physically and emotionally, no less. It's fascinating! It's intriguing. It's a damn good story, and one worth pursuing in the midst of our weird obsession with keeping love and romance the same as it's always been. it's bending the rules and testing the boundaries of all accepted facts and traditions.
will and jack? what is this, brokeback mountain? if I can't stand to watch the whelp onscreen, i highly doubt Jack owuld be able to stomach sailing about with him... especially seeing as, in ALL 3 FILMS, anytime the two are together, they are trying to kill each other and/or betray each other. and not in an intriguing way. Will is too self-righteous for his own good, and far too loyal. Jack is too charming and too morally corrupt for Will's honor. And to speak from a purely cinematic standpoint, Orlando disappears when Johnny is onscreen.
speaking of rants about movie three, I never got to see Keira in eyeliner. I was really pulling for that... for a little "Elizabeth takes after Jack for some plot-related reason and puts on eyeliner and possibly a hat and coat"... that would have been fun.
Yeah but you're forgetting one thing mate, I'm a Captain Jack Sparrow fan and I don't care how intriguing (LMAO, only not because Elizabeth is as intriguing as white bread) Sparrabeth potentially is I'd rather not see Captain Jack Sparrow anywhere near the woman who killed him. Captain Jack Sparrow is all about self preservation and freedom. He avoids fights and barters because he'd rather live and get what he wants than die trying. That's why he sometimes behaves in what people would consider a cowardly manner he is really a lot about self preservation and self satisfaction. To be with his killer would be stupid. Nothing romantic about it in my opinion.
The most romantic idea of all is Captain Jack Sparrow married forever to his freedom sailing the high seas pursuing his dreams for this Captain Jack Sparrow fan.
Sparrabeth is and I am quite glad for the sake of Captain Jack Sparrow fans first everywhere that Disney saw it that way too.
__________________ Bruce: You've got, sort of a dark side, don't you?
hmm... i DONT agree with you on that, because while I would like to see Captain Jack Sparrow stay alive, I also take into account 2 important factors. 1: Elizabeth is not going to kill Jack again. I'm willing to argue that. She did it once, it ruined her life, i think she clearly decided not to be that person and never do anything like that again. Second important factor: Jack is smart and capable of protecting himself. He was caught off guard once, but i dont think it will happen again. I would like to give Jack the credit to say, he could be friends with elizabeth or lovers with elizabeth and be able to look after himself just fine.
how is it romantic to be single forever? Well, not single, but to never have meaningful relationships with anyone? That doesn't seem to be romantic to me. Of course, I'm not saying I want to see Jack married with kids, cause I definitely DONT---- no way! But I DO want to see him able to interact with other people. No man is an island. The character of Jack is only fun when he IS interacting with other people... and we love him the most when he is deeply involved with Elizabeth and Will and the other people in his life... when he is risking his life for them, making plans that include saving them, coming back to rescue them, etc. THAT is what makes the character of Captain Jack 300 feet deep instead of a cartoon character that drinks. you know what I'm saying?
So... I don't want to see Jack sailing the high seas with no thought to love or romance forever, only using ladies as sexual gratification when he comes into port. that's a sad caricature of a man, and would be a tragic distortion of any person. I want him to be free, absolutely, but when you find people in life that really understand you and value you for who you are, they won't restrict your freedom by causing you to love them. That's The Alchemist for you.
Captain Jack Sparrow has never met a woman worthy of him during the series. Except I did sort of like that girl in Pirates one who joined his crew. I was hoping they'd develop something with that. That was a pity.
Elizabeth clearly doesn't value you him she restricted his freedom in the worst way. She cuffed him to a mast and left him to die. Thus chaining him up and damning him to death.
__________________ Bruce: You've got, sort of a dark side, don't you?
yep, and then she regretted it so much she risked her life, will's life, everybody's life to go and bring him back and undo what she did. people make mistakes in life. that's what makes them people and not angels. haha.
and really, if we're going to get back into this argument (which i dont really want to do without lovelyone, willo, and tigers to back me up) we're giving Jack WAYYYY too little credit here to blame the whole situation on Elizabeth. Jack made his choice. He CHOSE to come back, risk his life, and try to fight the kraken and help save everyone. He CHOSE to kiss a woman who was engaged at a time when they all knew they needed to get the heck off that ship. I think, whether consciously or not, he knew what was going on. let's give the guy some credit. does he look shocked when he gets chained? nope. angry? not really. he looks like, "ah... i so called this one."
Killing someone that deliberately and in a premeditated manner is hard for me to accept as a mistake. Elizabeth is just a disgusting person to me.
And Elizabeth didn't just choose to rescue Jack for unselfish reasons and let's not act like his crew and others didn't want to go and get him. And at least they didn't have to feel guilty about killing him to go after him.
Elizabeth belongs with nobody. Even Will is too good for her. Luckily he gets to spend his life on a boat with dead people who are probably far more likeable.
__________________ Bruce: You've got, sort of a dark side, don't you?
alright i'm done. i do love a good debate, but you just seem pretty negative about all this. elizabeth is like half the film. if you hate her, why do you even bother with the movie?
i think there is a way to appreciate a character, their development and role in the story, without necessarily condoning their actions or thinking they are "good people". just consider that.
I'm not negative I'm a Captain Jack Sparrow fan how weird would it be for me to be sitting here singing the praises of the character who killed him...
I'm not saying you can't have your opinion or like Sparrabeth but surely you can understand why I don't. I'm not a couple shipper I am a character fan first and as a fan of the Captain Jack Sparrow I think it's pretty clear and understandable why I wouldn't care for Elizabeth at all.
__________________ Bruce: You've got, sort of a dark side, don't you?
"ah, but the murder is what makes it all so deliciously twisted and fun. love between two real pirates? it would be the most unique love story of all times... because pirates inevitably betray each other, break the law, and will do anything to save their own lives and pursue freedom. " - Kate
Kate, that paragraph made my sparrabethy heart sing, i thought it described their relationship perfectly Thanks for posting that
Wow, what a debate we've got going, lol! I've seen Willabether vs. Sparrabether debates, but I've never seen an Anti-Lizzie against Sparrabeth or any other pairing
I'll cautiously offer a few thoughts of my own on what has already been said
S&B, when Elizabeth killed Jack, I don't think it was pre-determined. People all around her were dying for the sake of that one man, the man who they all loved, but drug them into a lot of trouble - she had to do some quick thinking on what was more important, risking all their lives, or sacrificing one for the good of all. TnT ( I believe it was them) call her the girl who "out-pirated them all", she was really the only one who could do what needed to be done, to act on that impulse to save the others, to become a pirate as Jack coined her- I think it was an impulsive move on her part, she was scared and wanted to save her own skin and the skins of the most people she could. She was willing to do whatever was necessary to accomplish that, she is a true pirate in that sense (at least IMHO).
I agree with Kate that Jack did help choose his own fate, he did choose to come back to the ship, Lizzie just helped his thoughts along by making his decision for him (to put it lightly, lol).
I can understand where you are coming from, I was a Jack Sparrow fan first and foremost for a while, I liked Elizabeth fine but didn't feel anything positive or negative towards her - just nice and neutral. DMC trailer came out and I was hooked on Sparrabeth, I realized all my favorite scenes from COTPB were sparrabeth centric, everything seemed to fall into place. We differ in the fact that I loved Elizabeth's character developement, I loved seeing her grow into a woman and respected Pirate.
I think that Jack actually respects Elizabeth for what she did - yes, she killed him and he's rather miffed (understandably), but he still respects her for doing what she had to do in her mind (in DMC).
Besides, Jack still cavorts around with people who tried to kill him - Barbossa, Tia, Elizabeth, various crew members too, most likely - he's a savvy guy, he doesn't seem to be the type of character to make the same mistake twice.
Okay, not even sure if all that made sense...I hope it did, lol.
But Captain Jack Sparrow and Barbosa have a mutual relationship of trying to kill each other so I can respect that. He doesn't dote on Barbosa or isn't nice to him at all they're constantly competing with each other and trying to one up the other. I enjoy Barbosa in that aspect as he is someone Captain Jack Sparrow is constantly trying to one up and best and Barbosa is constantly trying to stay ahead of Captain Jack Sparrow. And they needed and used each other to their advantages as well.
But I don't think they gave Captain Jack Sparrow and Elizabeth any proper closure on her killing him. He was searching for immortality to the point where he would trade anything and anyone to get it up until the last second in At World's End and yet I'm supposed to beleive he takes his killer lightly? Yeah right. Regardless of her motives or the situation Elizabeth killed Captain Jack Sparrow and to me that's enough to where I don't care for her at all and I don't consider Elizabeth a real pirate either and her becoming Pirate King was contrived and stupid.
I do realize I am among many Sparrabeths though so our arguments will probably be frequent as I am a Captain Jack Sparrow fan with no interest in Frumpy the False Pirate at all but I do respect your right to like what you like I will just never understand or want my favorite pirate with his murderer no matter what reason she killed him.
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__________________ Bruce: You've got, sort of a dark side, don't you?
Selina: No darker than yours, Bruce
Last edited by SelinaAndBruce on Dec 8th, 2007 at 07:07 AM
You're right: you have every right to your opinion as I do to mine, but I'm going take my leave here as Kate did. We're all free to speak our opinions on here, its just gotten too negative for me. I agree with Kate: like it or not, Elizabeth is a major part of the film, the writers even call her the real main character of the series.
I don't think disagreement is negative and really I am the only person here who feels like this it seems. The rest of you are just fighting over who she belongs with after all and most of you are Sparrabeths anyway.
I know Elizabeth is the main character of the film however they wrecked her as the series continued.
__________________ Bruce: You've got, sort of a dark side, don't you?
Lovely, why have you been gone for so long?!?! We've missed you!!!! HOw's life?!? XOXOXO
S and B, we don't think disagreement is negative. we value all sorts of opinions. i just would prefer to hear sort of clear, well constructed arguments as to why you disliked something particular, as opposed to endless character bashing. i mean, character bashing and frustration definitely has its place, but surely there are other aspects of POTC you would like to discuss with us.
I already explained why I didn't like the Elizabeth character. It was a well constructed argument.
While she was an enjoyable and BELIEVABLE heroine in Pirates of the Carribean one I think they lost the essence of the character as the series went on trying to make her into the Pirate King too quickly without little explanation and it made her come off as phony and I also don't appreciate that she killed Captain Jack Sparrow in DMC.
I am not bashing Elizabeth. I'd gladly discuss other characters I really like the rest of the characters and I much prefer to discuss storylines and themes over anything else.
I thought this was a place for Pirates fans but it almost seems like if you don't like Sparrabeth or Elizabeth then you're not welcome here or people will look at you as some kind of ogre. I had no idea because I am active in other movie threads on the board like the Batman thread for example and we disagree all the time way worse than this but the sensitivity here is puzzling to me.
__________________ Bruce: You've got, sort of a dark side, don't you?
eh, S and B, I don't know what else to say. We all love debating, we love differing opinions, but that doesn't mean we enjoy sitting around bashing. that's the point i was trying to make. i am not the forum moderator, so ignore me if you want. i'm really not bothered.
Perhaps you've heard of Surreal. We had a rip-roaring good time debating with her. so we are capable of it.
I'm not trying to be mean or annoying, but i was just getting really irritated because things seemed to be taking such a negative turn. lol.
KMC Community Forums
Dec 8th, 2007 04:34 AM
and I am quite glad for the sake of Captain Jack Sparrow fans first everywhere that Disney saw it that way too.
Thanks for posting that 
