Blax... you could be nicer about it. You can explain things without giving others things to interpret as insults, yeah?
No yelling or warning, just a simple suggestion.
ThoraxeRMG? He's correct in that Wiki generally isn't accepted as a source in debates. Just as a future precaution. Trying to present it as such will likely be met with derision.
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WARNING: The above post may contain sarcasm and/or sophisticated satire. Any psychological damage sustained is purely your fault.
Fact of the matter is Dante has an insane healing factor that pretty much puts Wolverine and even Hulk's healing factor to shame. Dante's speed is off the charts and I won't get into the vast list of abilities Dante has at his disposal like stopping time etc.
Really dude...Raiden managed to outduel Sidious, and Raiden has nothing on Dante.
Solidus is tough....but pitting him against Dante is overkill and spite.
BTW, he's so good at blocking bullets that he can shoot them out of the air with his own shots (he does that as NPC in DMC4 as well). So Solidus' bullets are highly unlikely to kill Dante... even young 16 years old Dante took 90 standart mashine guns shots and the only thing he was complaining about afterwards is his trenchcoat being ruined.
Some explosive bullets...dodgeable and able to be detonated from the safe distance in the manner described above.
Not to mention that in Royalguard Dante can block ANYTHING that doesn’t have a constant hurt factor (for example he can block EVERY ATTACK in the game including explosions without taking damage, except for Leviathan’s stomach acid).
Check out this master RG player at work. The whole thing makes great viewing, especially the easy and eye–popping takedown of the Boss at the end (more than ˝ its health bar in one combo hit, and this at its hardest difficulty level), but please note this section: 1:50–1:57. Dante explodes some Hell Wraths, then Just Parries their explosion with pinpoint accurate timing. He takes no damage whatsoever, verified by the lack of reduction in his green health bar, plus the score at the end confirming this.
Until I see Dante survive and regenerate from having his flesh entirely burned away by a point-blank nuclear explosion, I'm not convinced by that claim.
Hmmm...the closest thing to that was: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=euaLjELg_eQ
Or fall from several miles' height down into lava lake (after 1st fight with Mundus)= it was in human form and did nothing to him.
But as for regualr showings, on average Dante is better that hairy stinky Canuck...
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But that's not really important as we're talking Dante vs Solidus Snake. In fact, puitting Dante against human\paek human gunslingers is f*cking unfair.
A couple of videos to prove my words. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sLqhh8pFSsE
With Lady- young Dante blocks her bullets with his own shots (infinite ammo advantage is also notable here) http://www.wegame.com/watch/DMC4_Ne..._Bloody_Palace/
In the 4th game he repeats that trick as NPC...conclusion- the bullets, even explosive ones, are no problem here.
I think I saw this on a site also...I've heard the Documents are wrong in several areas. For instance, doesn't it say that Solidus looks happy when he gets his eye taken out?
I can get the screen if need be but Solidus looks well...not happy at all. In fact by visual and audio evidence he is rather angry and in pain.
It also mentions about Solidus dying his hair, something never one even hinted at in the game.
The Documents make it appear like Solidus idolizes and wants to replicate Big Boss. But in the actual game, when Ocelot tells him he is "the spitting image of Big Boss", he merely laughs sarcastically and follows it up with a sarcastic remark.
__________________ Earth is a beautiful addition to the Galaxy...but an even finer accessory on the hand of a God.
Last edited by Pyron_Knight on Apr 13th, 2008 at 06:41 PM
The script isn't wrong just because some parts are either not hinted at well enough, or left out of the game. This is what they were going from, if they decided to leave something out that is fine, but it doesn't make the whole thing invalid. NOTHING shows that the P90 is explosive, really, nothing at all. It is explained how he destroys they RAY's with it, and nowhere else are the bullets exploding.
There is really no proof that he is sarcastic either. (Solidus always laughs like that, Federal Hall for example....) He remarks that he is grateful to Raiden for taking his eye, and the script says he is, so I again see no point in disagreeing with it, calling him sarcastic.
About the harrier crash scene, of course he is in pain, losing an eye hurts, doesn't mean he isn't happy about resembling Big Boss more.
And how would we know if Solidus dyed his hair, it's not like it is ever relevant in the game.
Snake does say "stop impersonating him" when he sees Solidus up close, where some would think this for him impersonating Solid Snake and using his name, it might actually be because he is trying to resemble Big Boss. (Seeing as Snake comments when he sees Solidus' face.)
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Actually, the laugh on Federal Hall is pretty genuine. I'll clip them together to show the difference later.
Tell me, does he sound the slightest bit interested or grateful to Raiden?
I don't think so.
He sounds rather uninterested and sarcastic.
Except Solidus isn't impersonating Big Boss. He looks like him becuase...he's a clone.
Besides, look at what Solidus says later...about Solid and Liquid hunting down Big Boss, trying to sever their ties with him. He clearly makes a note of his father with no real interest or tone except to illustrate how Liquid and Solid cared about him and he says nothing of his own feelings on the matter.
I'm all for MGS character analysis and I've written stuff up on Solidus before...He has surprisingly little in common with his father. His hair color also makes perfect sense being naturally gray since he himself is, based on visuals, supposed to look around 20 years older than he chronologically is.
__________________ Earth is a beautiful addition to the Galaxy...but an even finer accessory on the hand of a God.
Last edited by Pyron_Knight on Apr 14th, 2008 at 10:21 PM
First of all, I'm unsure what you're trying to get at with this debate. This will not prove in any way that the P90 is explosive, are you just debating the documents for the sake of debating?
Again, you can argue all you like, but if the script written by Kojima says he is actually happy about resembling Big Boss, then he is. This is not proof that the script is false, nor would it be IF it was true. (This is your opinion however, so it's not)
And I find his laughter at Federal Hall similar, but w/e. Really, I don't see how he's sarcastic. He says "perhaps I should be grateful to this kid for that" in a normal tone, I'd say that if he was sarcastic, he'd emphesise on "grateful". Then again, I'm no expert on this, but it only shows how our opinions can be different...
You need to buy the script, find the quote that says he dyed his hair, then you need to find proof he didn't. Your opinion isn't enough for this matter, and don't believe internet sources left and right...
Snake says he is impersonating Big Boss (script), Solidus is happy to lose an eye (script), he says he is grateful to Raiden (sarcastic, debatable), he tells Snake the world needs only one Big Boss. Not only was Big Boss a great soldier, he also stood against his country to fight for his own beliefs, something that Solidus believes in and does as well. I'd say he does try to resemble Big Boss, but why are we debating this really?
All you've really shown here is your opinion, and I'm afraid that doesn't cut it. Even if the script didn't include everything, it doesn't make it wrong. This is what they went by, if the english translators or actors decided to change some line that's fine, doesn't make the whole thing invalid. They are not trapped with the script, not even Kojima. It's right on 98%, there are minor things that aren't included, the P90 is not one of them. So I find no reason for this debate...
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Last edited by kamikz on Apr 15th, 2008 at 07:21 AM
What the game presents is more important than the script.
Fact is, Solidus does NOT look happy when he loses his eye. Not. At. All. Thus the game itself contradicts the script.
So, explain that contradiction away please. The game, not even dialog here - the actual visuals that occur in both Japanese and English, show Solidus in pain after losing his eye.
Also, if you've played MG1 or Solid Snake you'd know Big Boss of Outer Heaven was pretty much nuts. Nothing but fandom suggests he was fighting the Patriots or anything. The games themselves haven't covered this area yet to retcon him into a more "human" figre at this point in time. As of what we know now from the actual games...he was pretty evil.
Solidus wasn't. He was trying to free the country by taking down the Patriots.
__________________ Earth is a beautiful addition to the Galaxy...but an even finer accessory on the hand of a God.
Oh, I definetely agree with you that the game is more important, but you're not by any means showing me a FACT that this is what the game shows, it's your OPINION. You don't know what Solidus feels, you THINK you know by watching him. Alot of people could disagree with you, which means you cannot really argue the script, unless you have Solidus saying "****ing brat, he took my damn eye. I'll kill that *****" or the like...
Actually, we don't know that. Portable Ops says Ocelot wants to recruit BB to the Patriots, and there's probably something coming up that shows what happens, why he did what he did etc. But we do know that Big Boss wanted a world where soldiers would still have a place, and he was fighting America (and the rest of the world) for it. He was doing what he wanted to do against all others, just like Solidus.
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I suppose those both are fair points. But on the topic of fighting the US and the Patriots, you could then argue Liquid is like Big Boss. He's doing that too and apparently making a new Outer Heaven in MGS4. But Liquid, as we all know, is an arrogant, almost insane douchebag with so many mental issues it isn't funny.
I really don't see how he bears any similarity to his father.
Isn't there a Portable Ops 2 coming out? maybe that'll shed some light on the things with Big Boss and Outer Heaven.
__________________ Earth is a beautiful addition to the Galaxy...but an even finer accessory on the hand of a God.
Yeah you're right. Though I think Liquid was called a mastermind, he is pretty smart although still on the lunatic fringe. Well whatever, we'll wait for Portable Ops 2 if it comes to see.
Does anyone know when the graphic novel of Metal Gear Solid 2 comes out? I really want that, it's gonna be cool to see Snake's POV in the Plant. (And there are scenes where he fights Vamp with a knife, and disarms Fortune with a kick, at least it looks like that in the trailers...)
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