The Case for Darth Tenebrous

The Tenebrous denial is getting old, and I'm inclined to believe it's largely a product of ignorance, so here goes: a comprehensive case for Darth Tenebrous as among the highest echelons of the Sith. 🙂

#1 Banite Powerscaling

First of all it's important to understand that this is just the starting point, in no way is the case for Tenebrous predicated entirely, or even mostly on Banite scaling, it merely lays the groundwork. Nonetheless it's important, so let's review.

As we know multiple sources state that over the course of 1,000 years, the Sith grew stronger with each generation:

Taken from Episode 1: The Phantom Menace Scrapbook

For a millennium, the Sith maintained the order in secrecy, passing down their evil heritage. As they gained knowledge of the dark side of the Force, their powers increased with each generation.

Taken from Insider #88: Heritage of the Sith

For a thousand years we continued to follow Bane's Rule of Two, existing in the shadows, bidding our time, growing in power, feeding our hatred.

Taken from Force & Destiny: Core Rulebook

Ultimately, Bane's plan produced more powerful Sith Lords with each generation.

Taken from Darth Plagueis

"We are not some cult like the Tetsu's Sorcerers of Tund. Descended from Darth Bane, we are the select few who refuse to be carried by the Force and who carry it instead - thirty in a millennium rather than the tens of thousands fit to be Jedi."

Logically Tenebrous should massively outstrip each and every one of these accomplishments, in fact, Tenebrous should be able to dominate Bane in combat rather easily. Sufficient certainly to establish him above the Maul, Dooku & even Vader tiers, who've found themselves challenged by comparable, and in some cases inferior opponents (i.e. Qui-Gon, Savage, Kenobi, Ahsoka etc.), and certainly don't massively exceed most, if any, of the aforementioned feats.

It's important however that we don't neglect to mention the accomplishments of some other of Tenebrous' predecessors, such as Darth Gravid, who was able to conjure a series of Force barriers around an entire fortress, and predated Tenebrous by some 500 years (or 15 odd generations), and Tenebrous' own master, who rent a hole in the Force, piercing a powerful "Force bubble" perpetuated by the combined presence of the entire Jedi Order over the course of a millennium. For reference:

Taken from Darth Plagueis

A human Sith Lord whose short reign had elapsed some five centuries earlier, Gravid had been persuaded to believe that total commitment to the dark side would sentence the Sith Order to eventual defeat

[...]

Barricaded within the walls of a bastion he and his Twi'lek apprentice, Gean, had constructed on Jaguada, he had attempted as much, and was thought to have destroyed more than half the repository of artifacts before Gean, demonstrating consummate will and courage, had managed to penetrate the Force fields Gravid had raised around their stronghold and intercede, killing her Master with her bare hands, though at the cost of her arm, shoulder, and the entire left side of her face and chest.

Taken from Darth Plagueis

One hundred years earlier, Tenebrous's Twi'lek Master had opened a small rend in the fabric of the Force, allowing the dark side to be felt by the Jedi Order for the first time in more than eight hundred years.

Taken from Darth Plagueis

Where an extremely low midi-chlorian count might have bolstered the odds of survival, nature had instead made the ysalimir species strong in the Force. So strong, in fact, that several of the creatures acting in concert could create a Force bubble encompassing kilometers rather than meters. In a sense, the Jedi Order had done the same on a galactic scale, Plagueis believed, by bathing the galaxy in the energy of the light side of the Force; or more accurately by fashioning a Force bubble that had prevented infiltration by the dark side, until Tenebrous's Master had succeeded in bursting the bubble, or at least shrinking it. How the Order's actions could be thought of as balancing the Force had baffled generations of Sith, who harbored no delusions regarding the Force's ability to self-regulate.

In summary feats of extraordinary power should be easily accomplished by Tenebrous, and cosmic level influence is well within his abilities. Indeed if you're not paying attention, this already puts Tenebrous firmly in the Top 10, unless you're a putrid TOR wanker. 🙂

#2 Standing in Comparison to Plagueis

As I say though this is just the foundation; as we can reasonable infer that on top of this Tenebrous was at the point of his death, significantly more powerful than his apprentice. First off we have some basic instances in which Tenebrous simply outperformed him, for example he struggled to match Tenebrous' Force speed, the velocity of which almost barrelled him over:

Taken from Darth Plagueis

Nearly knocked over by the swiftness of Tenebrous's departure, Plagueis had to call deeply on the Force merely to keep up.

Taken from Darth Plagueis

The gas explosion caught up with them just as they were entering the light-filled cavity at the top of the escarpment. From deep in the tunnel resounded a squealing electronic wail, and at the same time, almost as if the cave system were gasping for breath, a searing wind tore down from a perforation in the grotto's arched ceiling through which the ship had entered. A muffled but ground-heaving detonation followed; then a roiling fireball that was the labyrinth's scorching exhalation. Whirling to the tunnel they had just exited and managing somehow to remain on his feet, Tenebrous conjured a Force shield with his waving arms that met the fireball and contained it, thousands of flaming hawk-bats spiraling within the tumult like windblown embers.

A few meters away Plagueis, hurled face-first to the ground by the intensity of the vaporizing blast, lifted his head in time to see the underside of the domed ceiling begin to shed enormous slabs of rock. Directly below the plummeting slabs sat their starship.

Taken from The Tenebrous Way

He had exterminated his doddering Master with his customary efficiency, and had embarked immediately on a decades-spanning quest for an apprentice of his own. And not just an apprentice, but the apprentice: one possessed of a very specific combination of particular skills-primarily surrounding the direct perception and manipulation of midi-chlorian activity-but also a range of weaknesses, from short-sighted concern with personal profit to an unconquerable dread of the unknown realms beyond the walls of death.

An apprentice whose sole purpose was to create the being Tenebrous would become.

[...]

Amidst the billions upon billions of individual midi-chlorian deaths in Tenebrous' cells were a tiny fraction of midi-chlorians that were not dying. That would not die so long as they inhabited a living host. These especially tenacious midi-chlorians-Tenebrous had privately labeled them with the indeed the jesting sobriquet maxi-chlorian-had been altered. Improved. It would not be an overstatement, in Tenebrous' opinion, to use the word perfected. These maxi-chlorians would indeed migrate, but not into the Force.

They would migrate into Plagueis.

To detect this infinitesimal percentage would require the precision of a Bith; it was far beyond his apprentice's limited perceptions - and indeed, Tenebrous had gone to considerable trouble to ensure it would always remain so.

Instead of actually training his doltish apprentice, Tenebrous had flattered Plagueis' mysticism while pricking his insecurities, sending him off on one useless, doomed-to-fail mission after another. In turn, Tenebrous had invested every available second of the freedom this afforded into designing, creating, and deploying the one weapon that Plagueis would never suspect.

Then we have Venamis, whom when it became apparent that Plagueis might prove threatening to his designs he acquired to replace him, no more than two decades before Tenebrous' death, an apprentice whom while simultaneously devoting himself to the study of maxi-chlorians, managed to train to a sufficient level to be perceived by Plagueis as rivalling his power:

Taken from Darth Plagueis

The Force had whispered to him: Your moment has come. Claim your stake to the dark side. Act now and be done with this. But the Force had only advised; it had neither dictated his actions nor guided his hands. That had been his doing alone. He knew from his travels with and without Tenebrous that he wasn't the galaxy's sole practitioner of the dark side -- nor Sith for that matter, since the galaxy was rife with pretenders -- but he was now the only Sith Lord descended from the Bane line. A true Sith, and that realization roused the raw power coiled inside him.

And yet...

When he reached out with the Force he could detect the presence of something or some being of near-equal power.

Taken from Darth Plagueis

Again he tried to see deeper into Palpatine, but without success. The psychic walls the youth had raised were impenetrable, which made the young human something rare indeed. Had Palpatine somehow learned to corral the Force within himself, as Plagueis had concealed his own powers as a youth?

[...]

Plagueis had no need to delve any further into whatever traumas had given rise to Palpatine's cunning, secretive nature. He simply needed to know: Does this young human have the Force?

[...]

Palpatine's fury buffeted Plagueis. Blossoms growing along the sides of the pathway folded in on themselves, and their pollinators began to buzz in agitation. FourDee reacted, as well, wobbling on its feet, as if in the grip of a powerful electromagnet. Had this human truly been born of flesh-and-blood parents? Plagueis asked himself. When, in fact, he seemed sprung from nature itself. Was the Force so strong in him that it had concealed itself?

Then we have the fight itself which Plagueis describes as something that could have gone on "indefinitely", forcing him to revise his tactics to off-balance his opponent, rather than overpowering him outright:

Taken from Darth Plagueis

The contest took them backward and forward through the trees, across narrow streams, and up onto piles of rocks that were the ruins of an ancient sentry post.

[...]

Realizing that the fight could go on indefinitely, he took himself out of his body and began working his material self like a marionette, no longer on the offensive, instigating attacks, but merely responding to Venamis's lunges and strikes. Gradually the Bith understood that something had changed-that what up until then had been a fight to the death seemed suddenly like a training exercise. Exasperated, he doubled his efforts, fighting harder, more desperately, putting more power into each maneuver and blow, and in the end surrendering his precision and accuracy.

The angle being got at here? If Tenebrous was some leagues above Plagueis as his master, over the course of the next thirty years during which Plagueis largely dedicated himself to the furtherance of the Grand Plan, the training of Palpatine and the study of midichlorians (the only serious noted growth in power coming as a result of his breakthrough ritual), it's highly unlikely that he was surpassed by his successor to a significant degree, and instead the gap between Tenebrous & Plagueis should be considered small.

And again, only a TOR phag denies Plagueis' rightful status as a Sith of paramount power. 🙂

#3 Early Plagueis Powerscaling

Which brings us the icing on the cake that puts a cap on this debate. Namely the power scaling that can be begotten off good Hego. So let's revise what Plagueis was capable of in the immediate years, and in some cases immediate weeks, after Tenebrous' death:

1. With only a sliver of his power, he jellied the insides of a humanoid with Force lightning and brought a Force sensitive's blood to boil to the point of nearly igniting her.

Taken from Darth Plagueis

The lightsaber had scarcely left the Muun's grip when Wandau flew from cover to bring the attack to the Muun, triggering his blaster as ceaselessly as Maa Kaap was still doing. This time, though, the Muun merely stretched out his right hand and absorbed the bolts. Traveling up the length of his arm and across his narrow chest, the energy seemed to fountain from the hand awaiting the return of the spinning weapon as a tangle of blue electricity that hissed from his tapered fingers, catching Wandau full-on and lifting him to the ceiling of the hold before dropping him to the puddled deck in a heap, as if his bones had turned to dust.

Taken from Darth Plagueis

A fire ignited in her eyes and her body went rigid as Plagueis began to trickle lightning into her. Her limbs trembled and her blood began to boil. Her hands grew hot and were close to being set aflame when he finally felt the light go out of her and she crumpled in his grasp. Askance, he saw one of the Iktotchi's Twi'lek disciples racing toward him, and he abruptly let go of her hands and stepped away from her spasming body.

2. Moved at such speeds as appear like lightning, speeds which a droid capable of tracking blaster bolts was left struggling to process.

Taken from Darth Plagueis

The contest took them backward and forward through the trees, across narrow streams, and up onto piles of rocks that were the ruins of an ancient sentry post. Plagueis took a moment to wonder if anyone at the fort was observing the results of the contest, which, from afar, must have looked like lightning flashing through the forest's understory.

Taken from Darth Plagueis

The Muun's reaction to the barrage of bolts that converged on him required almost more processing power than the droid had at its disposal. By employing a combination of body movements, lightsaber, and naked right hand, the agile sentient evaded, deflected, or returned every shot that targeted him. Slowly surrendering energy, the bolts caromed from the deck and bulkheads, touching off alarms, prompting a switch to emergency illumination, and unleashing cascades of fire-suppressant foam from the ceiling aerosols. No sooner had the Balosar and the Dresselian entered the cabinspace than hatches sealed the corridors, preventing any escape from the melee. Only 11-4D's ability to calculate trajectories and react instantaneously to danger kept it from being on the receiving end of any of the numerous ricochets.

3. Causing a disturbance in the Force on Naboo with his sheer presence, triggering freak cold weather and a series of seismic events.

Taken from Darth Plagueis

Later it would be said by Naboo and Gungan alike that they couldn't recall a colder winter than the one that followed Hego Damask's autumnal visit to their world. The rivers and even the falls below Theed froze; the rolling plains and tall forests were blanketed three meters deep with snow; plasmic quakes rocked the Gallo Mountains and the Lake Country, the Holy Places and the undersea city of Otoh Gunga; and many of the egresses of the underwaterways that hollowed the planet were blocked by ice floes.

The point being that though many would be willing to dismiss this as a coincidental anecdote designed solely for dramatic effect, that's simply not logical. The Thames is not going to suddenly freeze over tomorrow, or next year, in fact that only used to happen a several centuries ago, during a major global cooling period. Likewise an extreme and unnatural weather event such as this could only have occurred by during a sustained cycle of climate change, which Naboo was not in the midst of to our knowledge, leaving Plagueis' presence as the only alternative cause.

This being without mentioned the earthquakes that came with it, entirely unrelated to a temperature drop, but just happened to occur regardless. Which only further beggars believe that this could all have happened by sheer coincidence, the chances of which are simply very low.

Which leaves us with a Sith Lord capable of causing a dramatic Force disturbance that produced tangible results on a continental, if not planetary scale. This is easily beyond the capabilities of some of the most powerful Sith, and replicated only by the strongest of beings like Palpatine and the Sith Emperor. Tenebrous is a league above this, which when paired with his superiority to his master, who rent a hole in the fabric of the Force, firmly establishes him as a being of considerable cosmic prowess.

Conclusion

So let's review:

1. Banite scaling is not the only thing that supports Tenebrous, nor is it all about Bane, but nonetheless establishes him as a Force wielder of immense power, above the likes of Maul, Dooku & Vader, and far more comparable to Caedus, Revan and Krayt.

2. There is strong evidence to suggest that due to neglected training, a considerable girth existed between Plagueis and Tenebrous at the point of the latter's death, indicating a strong proximity to Plagueis in his prime. Arguably establishing Tenebrous above the aforementioned tiers.

3. Plagueis' pre-prime feats, which include one of a largely unprecedented and cosmic level, reinforced his abilities and firmly establish Tenebrous' position among the highest echelons of Sith, alongside Sidious, Valkorion and the rest.

You should also mention Ramage as a point of comparison.

Also his feat consistutes to performing several Dooku-esque feats at the same time, casually. In a novel that's far more subdued than most of the overexaggerated media like TOR or TFU.

But yeah, great thread. 🙂

You forgot to add in the fact he can shoot red Sith lightning, too.

Thanks DC.

Originally posted by Emperordmb
You should also mention Ramage as a point of comparison.

Good thread

You are still alive!

Edit:

Originally posted by Beni
Maul, Dooku & even Vader tiers, who've found themselves challenged by comparable, and in some cases inferior opponents (i.e. Qui-Gon, Savage, Kenobi, Ahsoka etc.)

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Sufficient certainly to establish him above the Maul, Dooku & even Vader tiers, who've found themselves challenged by comparable, and in some cases inferior opponents (i.e. Qui-Gon, Savage, Kenobi, Ahsoka etc.), and certainly don't massively exceed most, if any, of the aforementioned feats.

TFU Vader disagrees uhuh

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Thanks DC.

What did he do. 🙂

Ramage is substantially more powerful than Jax (as he falls near the end of the Banite line, much more practiced with those abilities than Jax, and Jax only took a small portion of his Force knowledge so Ramage has much more than those abilities at his disposal.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
[b]And blaster bolts? Sub-sonic speeds in some sources

Faster than that Beni.

Originally posted by Emperordmb
Jax Pavan learned some abilities from Ramage's holocron that allowed him to outmaneuver Vader at one point via time manipulation, and conjure illusions that Vader was incapable of dissipating.

Ramage is substantially more powerful than Jax (as he falls near the end of the Banite line, much more practiced with those abilities than Jax, and Jax only took a small portion of his Force knowledge so Ramage has much more than those abilities at his disposal.

Originally posted by Ursumeles
You are still alive!

Edit:

🙂

Good job, Beni. The people who put Tenebrous below the likes of Revan and even below are plain retarded.

Originally posted by TenebrousWay
Good job, Beni. The people who put Tenebrous below the likes of Revan and even below are plain retarded.

Anyway, nice job Beni. Good read.

Originally posted by TenebrousWay
Good job, Beni. The people who put Tenebrous below the likes of Revan and even below are plain retarded.

Yep, you aren't the least bit bias regarding Tenebrous at all. 😂

[...]

Anyway, I applaud Beni for being the first person to actually make a solid case for Tenebrous. Really give the bottom feeding debaters here something to latch on to.

Excellent thread Beni.

Just want to clarify though that in Gerard's to the speed feats you mentioned the droid was able to calculate the trajectory of the blaster bolts but once they're fired in a certain direction that trajectory is set while a sentient like Plagueis movies in unpredictable patterns that have to be reassessed constantly.

Also why didn't you mention Plagueis's present leaving a Darkside taint on a planet that Palpatine sensed from across the Galaxy?

Originally posted by Zenwolf
Faster than that Beni.

Yeah, they're moving around hypersonic. Lightspeed is an outlier.

Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
Just want to clarify though that in Gerard's to the speed feats

Originally posted by TenebrousWay
Good job, Beni. The people who put Tenebrous below the likes of Revan and even below are plain retarded.