Now that it's well established skill can beat power, how does base Goku do against the two in the Buu saga?
I think he can take them.
__________________ What CDTM believes;
Never let anyone else define you. Don't be a jerk just to be a jerk, but if you are expressing your true inner feelings and beliefs, or at least trying to express that inner child, and everyone gets pissed off about it, never NEVER apologize for it. Let them think what they want, let them define you in their narrow little minds while they suppress every last piece of them just to keep a friend that never liked them for themselves in the first place.
Skill only beats power in Super, to explain how Goku who is out of energy can beat someone 100x stronger than him, and also to make Roshi relevant.
That being said, it depends on if you believe something from the Daizenshuu that Goten was as strong as Gohan, then they would easily win in ssj, also Goten and Trunks tend to work well together as a team. And they were stronger than 18, who was definitely stronger than Base Goku..so.
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Boo-era? Yeah, SSJ Trunks & Goten stomp the living shit out of base Goku.
1.) The boys gave #18 trouble in their base levels -- and that was when they were neutered by wearing Mighty Mask's oversized costume, and also knew they had to hold back as not to significantly harm/kill her. Despite these glaring disadvantages, however, #18 still shit her pants when they actually powered up to SSJ and launched a blast at her: https://i.imgur.com/neXMw0b.jpg https://i.imgur.com/aVlT1pV.jpg https://i.imgur.com/20KsVZF.jpg https://i.imgur.com/34futI6.jpg
#18: "You've gotta be kidding me... That speed... That power... Are those twits really THAT good!?"
2.) Even Piccolo appeared awestruck by their max powers as SSJ -- the shocked expression + nervous sweat are indicative of such: https://i.imgur.com/01jVq0s.jpg
3.) SSJ Goten appeared to be overwhelming SSJ Gohan's defenses during their brief sparring session, until Gohan took flight(which Goten couldn't do at the time): https://i.imgur.com/rg1539x.jpg https://i.imgur.com/yg607jg.jpg https://i.imgur.com/fuW3cfU.jpg
*Additionally, the Daizenshuu explicitly states that Boo-era Goten "posses battle power not the least bit inferior to even Gohan."
7.) There is also a title page from the manga which states that the boys were the most powerful beings on earth(excluding the adult Saiyans, who could access higher levels of SSJ than them): https://i.imgur.com/iXn8UMl.jpg
ie. SSJ Trunks (slightly)> SSJ Goten > Boo-era Piccolo > #18 >>> base Goku.
*And keep in mind, all of the above occurred BEFORE the boys trained in the RoSaT.
__________________
"I am tired of Earth. These people.
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Unfair to compare Gohan kick against Trunks. Since, buu was knew Gohan attack was coming and brace it, while Trunks kick took buu out without him noticing.
and base Goku would school those kids. Mr. Popo himself was able to slow those two down, filler or not.
Incorrect. Gohan's kick caught Boo completely off guard as well: (please log in to view the image)
The Popo scene is non-canon filler. Fact is, base Goku would get utterly stomped by either of the boys individually. Both of them together makes this spite of the highest order.
__________________
"I am tired of Earth. These people.
I am tired of being caught in the tangle of their lives."
All the way back in early Dragon Ball, Mr. PoPo was taking Goku to school after his first win against Piccolo, and Goku claimed he wasn't all that strong. It was all skill.
__________________ What CDTM believes;
Never let anyone else define you. Don't be a jerk just to be a jerk, but if you are expressing your true inner feelings and beliefs, or at least trying to express that inner child, and everyone gets pissed off about it, never NEVER apologize for it. Let them think what they want, let them define you in their narrow little minds while they suppress every last piece of them just to keep a friend that never liked them for themselves in the first place.
Besides the little text there, I see nothing that supports that.
Boo-era Piccolo would at that point easily be > #17 on his way to first form cell.
Do the kids have some crazy showings? Sure. But against non serious opponents, not to mention Gohans kick against Buu was from a far closer range than Trunks' sky diving miracle kick. After having received some heavy damage from Buu as well.
I'll take the manga over the Daizenshu personally ( ) but it doesn't matter. Piccolo is stronger than Goten and Trunks, as shown when the fusion time expires for Buutenks. Kaioshin is stronger than Piccolo, per Piccolo's own statements. Base Goku and Vegeta are stronger than Kaioshin, per Kaioshin's own statements (and the daiz iirc). So, long story short, Goku beats the piss out of the kids, be it through strategy or brute strength.
*This is Boo-era base Goku -- back when he was still weaker than 4th form Freeza. He doesn't stand a chance in hell against the boys, skill be damned.
Yes indeed. By all accounts Trunks was slightly more powerful than Goten, who was equal to Gohan according to the Daizenshuu. However, that is just raw strength/power.
Obviously SSJ Gohan would still beat SSJ Kid Trunks in a fight every single time, though. Gohan is still a MUCH better fighter, after all, and Trunks isn't more powerful by a large enough amount for it to bridge the gap in skill.
Good, because the manga doesn't contradict the Daizenshuu here at all.
That is because when the boys de-fused within Boo, they split up into their individual BASE levels -- we saw this when Goku and Vegeta rescued them: (please log in to view the image)
Of course Piccolo is > two base-level Saiyan children, lol.
__________________
"I am tired of Earth. These people.
I am tired of being caught in the tangle of their lives."
Last edited by Galan007 on Nov 28th, 2017 at 03:34 PM
If Buu knows how to replicate all of their techniques, it also stands to reason that he knows how to tap into their Super Saiyan power, so I don't buy any notion that Toriyama was making the point "Hey guys, by having Buutenks become Bucciolo, I am only suggesting that Piccolo > Base Goten/Trunks." Nah, no way.
After the fusion timed-out, Bootenks reverted into Booccolo(which makes sense because the boys each went back to their BASE levels, and obviously Piccolo > base Goten/Trunks.)
I've got a million of 'em, but you should try clearing your plate first before talking about dessert.
Excuses is a term I'd use to describe pure and absolute guesswork. Guesswork like this notion that the boys were in their base state at the time Buutenks reverts to Buucilo. Guesswork like this notion Buu is actively swapping his victims in and out of their suppressed states in order to tap into their power as opposed to simply having the power like Cell. All guesswork. All baseless. And all meaningless to our conversation. The only thing we know is that the author took the time to have Buu take on Piccolo's form the minute Gotenks fusion time expired. And again, it's a bit too much of a stretch for me to believe Toriyama was using that scene to make the point of "Hey guys, by having Buutenks become Bucciolo, I am only suggesting that Piccolo > Base Goten/Trunks." Just not how he operates. Same reason he doesn't bother to have anyone "power up" to fuel the genki dama.
Last edited by Dark-Kenshin on Nov 28th, 2017 at 11:30 PM
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