Revan, based on his two consecutive wins against Malak, who was being powered up by an entire race of force sensitives at the time.
Jacen Solo, from what I've heard, has been directly stated as the strongest Jedi alive by the LotF books (with the exception of Luke of course), which includes Kyp Durron, who supposedly could manipulate miniature black holes with ease, and getting closer to Luke each day.
Yoda, Jacen, Revan, Dooku, or Mace, if you're interpreting based on "power". If you mean by "best" as in the most "faithful" or whatever, then Revan, Jacen, and Dooku are automatically gone.
Yes, I mean pure power and saber skills. Like, overall the best, but without counting being faithful or intelligent or anything which has to do with that
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Qui-Gon, he knew Anakin was the chosen one, and he in the end learned the greatest power of all, which is much more impressive than swinging a saber really fast.
1: What power was that where does it say that is there in canon proof to that?
2: QUI GON got pwned......can you spell S-U-C-K
3 i like qui gon hes a good guy has good saber skill but not the best in the world or galaxy
Yoda FTW
Note : Yoda is one of the few Jedi Council Members to ever die of OLD AGE in his time and times past........Can you recall Jedi Council Members dieing of old age? in like the sith wars or during bane's life time or anyone past just tell me
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1: He means becoming a Force Spirit.
2: By Darth Maul. There are few who wouldn't go down to Maul. Also, to be fair, Qui Gon learned a lot from Dooku, was the best duelist Obi Wan had ever seen, was a hero in the Stark Hyperspace War, and was on par with Windu as of TPM. Also, he had the power to shut up Jar Jar with a touch. That itself is quite an accomplishment.
3:Agreed, I was just giving Qui Gon credit where it was due. He is not the second most powerful by a long shot.
Yoda is one of the top contenders for second best, but there's also Jacen and Kyp, too.
you can't just measure power by lightsaber skills, and the fact that Yoda could spin really fast, b/c learning how to become one with the force is greater than anything Yoda did, and Qui-Gon is the one that taught Yoda,Kenobi,Anakin how to do this.
I fail to see where James is doing that at any point. In terms of dueling prowess with a blade, Yoda surpasses Qui-Gon by a huge margin. When it comes down to the Force, again, Yoda simply is leagues more powerful, and has a greater mastery and control over it. In terms of overall knowledge? Once again, Yoda takes the cake.
It's rather idiotic to say simply because Qui-Gon learned one technique that Jedi were performing like clockwork in the days of old makes him even so much as a contender for the 'Second Best Jedi'. Otherwise, Vodo Siosk-Baas, Andur Sunrider, Qu Rahn, and the like could be considered for the spot.
The fact of the matter is that the ability had been around for centuries before Jinn discovered it, and it's largely irrelevant if he was the first known in the prequel era to learn it, or teach it because it has no bearing on his personal power (as weaklings such as Andur were able to utilize it), and it means absolutely nothing. He pales in comparison to Yoda is all aspects related to strength. One certain technique puts him above the likes of Yoda (who eventually was taught the power anyways)? Not only is that probably the most ridiculous thing I've read today, it's downright absurd.
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"The ability to speak does not make you intelligent." - Sagacious Jedi Master Qui-Gon Jinn.
, if it was such a nothing power why did Yoda,Kenobi and Anakin have to be taught it?
And the original post was not about who is the most powerful its who was the best? And Yoda as a jedi unconditionally supported a corrupt republic, and Sidious, for years, b/c the jedi had always done it that way. Qui-Gon atleast questioned things and did not just do what was percieved right by the council.
I know its very easy just to say Yoda, and if it was power Yoda would be very high, but put a little more thought into it.
I'll take note that you didn't directly address my points.
Will you do me a favor, and explain to me how who's the teacher, and who's the learner correlates into this discussion? Oh? What's that? There is no relevant relation?
It doesn't matter if Qui-Gon was the one who taught Yoda, because in the end, he still learned it. More importantly, again, one ability does not put character x over character y. Especially in this case, where character y has been taught the skill we're (well, I'm) debating about.
By your absurd logic, anyone who educated another being with a certain technique is greater than the one who they taught it to. Which is fallacious, and untrue, therefore you have no point.
I didn't say it was a 'nothing power', you dolt. I said it means absolutely nothing when taking a comparison of personal power, because weaklings like Andur "I-get-my-ass-kicked" Sunrider were able to utilize the ability.
Learn2read.
So did Obi-Wan "Epitome of a Jedi" Kenobi. Your point holds no water, as virtually all the Jedi did, as well.
Relevance?
No one even so much as knew Darth Sidious had been a Sith Lord, it's not like he waltzed into the Council chambers, and declared war. He strategically manipulated the Republic, and the Jedi.
This has absolutely no bearing on anything in terms of being a Jedi; whether in regards to power, or what have you.
Wow! I guess this means Obi-Wan Kenobi isn't the definition of a Jedi. You think being a rebel, or nonconformist equates to one being a more suitable Jedi? That's ludicrous.
Your reasoning is rather shoddy, to say the least. The assertions you're making are stupid, for lack of a better word.
Actually, it's not.
And when did I ever proclaim Yoda as the second strongest Jedi? I didn't, so please don't twist what I'm arguing, kid.
You'll notice that I'm only entertaining your posts in regards to Qui-Gon being more qualified than Yoda (or everyone, rather) based solely on one power, not that Yoda is undeniably the 'Second best Jedi', or anything of the sort.
Would you mind putting any thought into what you're typing?
Firstly, the TC specified what he meant by 'best'. Simply because you're too blind to notice, doesn't mean I'm at fault here. Secondly, even if you want to encompass what it means to be a Jedi, Qui-Gon still isn't in the number two spot. Thirdly, you're an idiot.
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"The ability to speak does not make you intelligent." - Sagacious Jedi Master Qui-Gon Jinn.
Last edited by Advent on Apr 24th, 2007 at 01:43 PM
so you think Yoda would have just figured it out? Maybe that means Qui-Gon was more in touch with the force.
yeah and how many people will say Kenobi is the second best jedi. They did serve a corrupt republic for years, b/c that was the way it had always been done, they, the council, refused to accept change, which is what Lucas has said the prequels were about, when Anakin and the jedi would not change it all cost them. Qui-Gon always questioned things if he felt they were wrong, and went against the council often, if he was alive i doubt he would have just gone along like they did, no questions asked.
Debating with you is like talking to a little child, you claim your opinion as fact and if somebody disagrees with you, you insult them.
Again, I'll take not that you did not directly address my points.
Before I begin, I'll just copy and paste what I previously wrote, in addition to a rebuttal.
Try again.
No, not necessarily.
But again, even that's not pertinent. I'm trying to understand how one technique could place someone above the majority of force users in terms of power, or even what it means to be a Jedi.
You're not acknowledging the facts of which I'm bringing forth. It does not matter in the least bit whether Qui-Gon was the first to discover it in the prequel era, or ever, because it has no bearing on personal power. Let's take another force power: Force light. Yaddle knows this skill, yet Yoda doesn't. Is Yaddle above Yoda? Hell no.
For the sake of the argument, I'm merely going to assume that we're talking about who represents the Jedi best, or something of the sort. Now, why is Qui-Gon above say, Andur Sunrider? Andur was able to achieve the same state of oneness with the Force that Qui-Gon did, yet he came centuries before your god did.
How does becoming a Force ghost make him a 'better' Jedi than Yoda? Explain this to me, which you've yet to do.
Non sequiturs are now acceptable as responses?
That doesn't follow at all. Qui-Gon Jinn learned a technique, that was eventually taught to Yoda, anyhow. It perhaps would hold merit, had Yoda not been able to successfully learn such a power, but he did. Even then, I retract my statement, because a single skill does not put one being over another. Is Kyle Katarn more powerful than Luke Skywalker, because of the exotic variaty of force powers he has? No, he's not. For your words to be correct, that would have to be true. Since it isn't, they're not.
That's besides the fact that a weakling, who was killed by a handful of weak mercenaries, was able to grasp the same ability. So, that alone destroys this "point". Try again.
In regards to his power? None, but that wasn't what I was saying.
In regards to him being the "definition"? A lot. Janus, for one (the real one). Me, for second. And those two opinions account for a lot.
He did what even Yoda, Vodo, and many other venerable and respected Jedi could not do, he let go of his attachments. He was arguably the most humble Jedi of the entire Order, and strongly upheld the code itself. He was one of the most, if not the most, acceptable candidate for being what it means to be a Jedi. Which really has little to nothing at all to do with your prowess in battle.
Would you take a look at what you actually wrote? You're basing Qui-Gon's higher rank because he was defiant, and "questioned things", whereas Yoda, and company followed the Republic, even though they were "corrupt"? Hint: Qui-Gon still plead his allegiance to the Republic, and served the Jedi, and still Anakin always was uncertain about the Jedi way, is he now the "epitome of a Jedi"?
Short answer: No.
Your logic is extremely faulty. Try again.
Why are you explaining something that holds absolutely no water?
So, he's a 'better' Jedi because of this? Wow. Huzzah for your capable reasoning abilities.
One of the best debaters (sometimes considered the best) currently has a mentality like that of a small child? That speaks well for the forums.
It's also quite hypocritical of you to even make such a statement, considering you've continued to base Qui-Gon supposed superiority over Yoda, and everyone else for that matter, based on a single technique, and the fact he was rebellious. Even when direct evidence from my end disproves such a thought.
Can you please show me where I've stated an opinion as 'fact'? Everything I've stated thus far is nigh indisputable, save for my comment about Obi-Wan, which is an opinion; although, it certainly holds truth behind it, and isn't an illogical deduction.
Despite the fact I clearly provide viable evidence to back up my assertions, and whenever someone 'disagrees' with that (for whatever the reason may be) - I continue to prove them wrong? You act as if I make claim x, and debater a disagrees, I go off on a degrading spree.
This is not the case, and it never has been.
I find absolutely no fault on my end for making rude remarks towards my opposition due to that, and the fact that despite reason being thrown in your face, you continue on your 'KWAIJOHN JIN BESTEVAR!!!//!!ONELEVEN!" campaign.
Now, let's turn the tables, and I'll pass judgment on you from what I've seen. You: 1) fail to address the majority of points directly, even then it's a one liner that has no proof behind it, 2) make ridiculous assumptions, or assertions based on your own idiotic illusions.
There's a reason no one gives a shit what you think. This is it. Try again.
__________________
"The ability to speak does not make you intelligent." - Sagacious Jedi Master Qui-Gon Jinn.
Last edited by Advent on Apr 24th, 2007 at 08:36 PM
Apr 23rd, 2007 08:49 PM
, if it was such a nothing power why did Yoda,Kenobi and Anakin have to be taught it?
