Wanda was Driving the Chaos Wave into other Realities, like when it hit OtherWorld (please log in to view the image)
"it is the End ... of ALL that is ... of ALL that will Ever be"
THIS SAME Chaos Wave is referred to as "Scarlet Witch's Reality Warp" in the Official Handbook Of The Marvel Universe v5 2006.
In THREE separate Bios
1. "During the Scarlet Witch's 'House of M' Reality Warp, Jaspers Reformed alive merged with the Fury" (please log in to view the image)
(excerpt from the Official Handbook of the Marvel Universe)
2. "Mad Jim Jaspers has also returned, brought back to life by the Scarlet Witch's recent Reality Warp" (please log in to view the image)
And as I presented above, it was the Chaos Wave that manifested Jaspers 616 from another Plane. (he was dead)
Gender: Male Location: somewhere within time & space
More conclusive PROOF that the Chaos Wave was Wanda's Power.
(from the Official Handbook of the Marvel Universe 2006 Saturnyne bio) (please log in to view the image)
"She (Saturnyne) was later present on Otherworld when Dimension-616 was Engulfed
in the Scarlet Witch's Reality Warp ...
Saturnyne showed little hesitation in suggesting destroying 616 to Prevent the Warp SPREADING"
Here is that scene On Panel,
Satynyne talking about the Chaos Wave or as the Official Bio puts it,
the Scarlet Witch's Reality Warp: (please log in to view the image)
"Your Dimension is a Cancer, bringing Devastation to Branes ALL ALONG the SIDEREAL STRING ...
Sparing Yours condemns the REST"
"If the breach is not sealed, the Chaos Wave will continue to expand,
maye I forgot something but wasn't meggan harnessing some of the powers from the beyonders? you know beings that can destroy and recreate the omniverse ore something like that?
The chaos wave which leaked across into other dimensions is referred to as the Scarlet Witchs reality warp because she was the one responsible for it, it was her actions which brought it about. That is made clear on panel. The fact that it is referred to as the Scarlet Witchs reality warp in the bios IS NOT evidence that she generated it directly or that she controlled it when ON PANEL she has no knowledge of it, makes no mention of it and its actually stated it was caused by a dimensional tear. The handbooks complement what occurs on panel, they are not a substitute for an on panel account. On panel you are completely unsupported. As such you or anyone are completely unjustified in presenting it as something that is within her repertoire to just conjure up to use as a weapon.
As stated by Roma the wave was caused by the dimensional tear:
i.e theres a trans temporal tsunami, so quite clearly there has been an alteration thats breached the dimensional walls.
She gives the reason for the chaos waves existence as being the dimensional tear that the Scarlet Witch unknowingly caused.
NOWHERE in the House of M main title is the chaos wave mentioned. In no comic title ever or any official publication ever is the Scarlet Witch shown to have directly generated, let alone controlled the dimensional wall eroding phenomenon that was the chaos wave.
NOWHERE in 616 is the Scarlet Witchs reality warping powers shown to manifest as a dimensional wall eroding anomaly. In 616 her powers allowed her to reshape the Earth to fit her vision. The chaos wave didnt alter causalitys laws to bring about someones vision, it eroded dimensional walls causing the reality within to collapse into chaos, causing nothing to make sense:
The wave was of a different nature to the Scarlet Witchs manifestation of power in 616 and it had a different effect on reality.
Unless you can show a chaos wave-like manifestation in 616 during house of M generated by Wanda which did the same things as the chaos wave and was of the same scale, then you are once again completely unjustified in presenting the wave as something Wanda is capable of generating directly and controlling when:
a) Its of a different nature to her manifestations of power in 616 and had different affects
b) Its not mentioned in any Marvel publication as being directly generated or controlled by Wanda ( The Chaos Wave being called Wandas reality warp in a handbook as aforementioned is insufficient as it can simply be referring to the fact that she brought it about which IS the case)
c) Roma the omniversal guardian actually states that the Chaos Wave was clearly the result of a global alteration ripping a hole in 616's dimensional wall.
With all that in mind whilst the wave was brought about by Scarlet Witch as a side effect of her reality warping in 616 as illustrated clearly by Roma, there is no evidence on panel that she could generate the wave at will to use as a weapon. Also even if she could the wave was only a threat if it was allowed to run riot. If confronted it could easily be stopped by merely closing the dimensional tear that spawned the wave:
As such wielding the wave certainly doesnt make someone above the abstracts as when confronted directly it takes far less than abstract level power to stop it and it certainly doesnt make Wanda beyond the abstracts not only for that reason, but also because theres no evidence she generated it directly or controlled it anyway.
The second time she warped reality is in reference to the "No More Mutants" event. That was her warping reality for the second time, ending house of M but reverting reality to its previous status with the exception of a dramatically reduced mutant population.
In those same Exiles issues it was stated as i've shown that the amount of reality 616 that she warped was actually just the Earth.
Exiles 72
"The House of M reality has once again been revised. The Exiles were forced to withdraw leaving Beak and Angel to face, whatever fate has befallen EARTH 616"
This global scale reference came AFTER your scan and it highlights how ambiguous your "reality 616" quote is. The amount of reality 616 isnt defined in your scan from Exiles 71. It is a statement open to interpretation, understand that. My scan from Exiles 72 verifies what interpretation is correct, she directly applied GLOBAL changes.
Reality 616 was engulfed by Wandas reality warp. Its just a shame for your argument that it was only Earth 616 as defined by the Exiles comics your scans come from and by Roma the omniversal guardian with her reference to a "global alteration" That same instance is the one the handbook refers to when it says "dimension 616 was engulfed" and on panel, the reality warp was stated to be global. Your evidence provides the locale, mine the scale directly affected.
Thanks to your habit of reposting all i need do is post a link to your own thread in which i swatted aside a virtually identical Wanda HOM argument quite thoroughly:
On top of that saying "all of reality" is an ambiguous, inconclusive statement and unless defined by conclusive art or further description cant be used as conclusive evidence to prove your point, when it itself is inconclusive.
All of reality for what? Wheres the defined scale. We know she didnt warp the entire multiverse, yet the lines so ambiguous someone without knowledge of the event could interpret it so.
All of the universe? That line can be interpreted so and yet no scale is determined so that too is not definitive and still a possibility.
All of Earths reality? Another possibility as the sentence has no scale, however when you look through continuity you can also see that the scale of the warp has been defined and various times on panel:
"The House of M reality has once again been revised. The Exiles were forced to withdraw leaving Beak and Angel to face, whatever fate has befallen EARTH 616"
Scale of the warp is defined as global and of being confined to the world, earth 616. No ambiguous open to interpretation "she transformed reality", "she did this to all reality" BULLSH*T
Show me a scan saying that she transformed the entire universe into House of M or this is pretty much done and dusted.
I think all of what GS shows there, and in this thread again, highlights his crippling self-confidence issues. I mean...GS, seriously. Do you have to beat your chest and shout "i won!!"? And, funnily enough, only you and only you are proclaiiming this fact.
I could understand if everyone was trumpetting this...ya know, everyone was going "OWNED!" but it's just you and it seems childish.
But, this entire argument happened in this thread everyone. Check it out.
__________________ "No, when Luke uses anger he turns into Stevie Wonder at batting practice."
I have no issues im just highlighting the fact that this issue has already been argued to death, all of Mr Masters points have been countered and yet instead of waiting for new evidence to be published, or presenting a new argument based on stuff already out, hes reposting the same old argument i've already handled as opposed to actually countering some points.
Do you exist merely worship Mr M or during your time here do you actually debate?
I'd love to see you and Mr M have a one on one debate. Be an interesting and quite surprising thing to see.
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May 29th, 2007 10:47 PM
