those feats prove that batman is faster than your average human being and i never claimed otherwise.
however having an elite level of speed is not going to save him from getting dogpiled, he can be fast but he wont be fast enought o react in 6 different directions at the very same time and then get jumped.
what i understand from his fight with the mob is that batman has a chance to win if the mob doesnt know how to fight and doesnt utilize actual fighting, however he can easily lose if that mob simultaneously attacks him and doesnt let him maneuver.
batman did well vs that mob but first of all there wasnt 50 people over there probably 20.
second of all they werent trying to fight him they were standing still and trying to shoot, all he had to do is get out of the fire line and take them out.
after he took a good portion out the other portion was somewhat of fighting him with no use.
however if the 50 thugs will simultaneously attack him and just dog pile him i dont see him doing much, he cant react that fast and keep fighting which 2 guys hanging on him and other 2 punching his head its just not possible for someone with his stats.
it was not my intention.
i wanted to see if people can think logically enough and understand that beyond the fact those are just thugs, the numbers do affect things.
no batman is not a bullet timer.
batman has peak speed which is beyond of a human, however he is not a bullet timer, every street leveler and his grandma has feats of avoiding bullets, that does not mean they are faster than a bullet nor can they match their speed with bullets, it means they are faster than the trigger press and can get out of the fire direction.
people statues to batman? really? is that why guys two face or catwomen or atc atc atc are able to fight him and sometimes supress him?
i find it kinda funny you are trying to make batman some kind of superhuman.
when he faced someone with enhanced speed and reflex in the name of deathstroke, we all saw how inferior his stats are compared to someone with real super human astats.
and lets not forget deathstroke has very low level of super human stats to the point they are described as enhanced, probably slightly above wolverine.
so please tell me something, by your logic and the things you believe, how many thugs would it take to defeat batman in a H2H confrontation if they attack and fight him simultaneously and actually using real fighting?
The inverse ninja numbers efectiveness rule also applies to thugs. Bats wades trough the first 20, puts in an effort taking down the next 20, the 10 remaining becomes a challenge and last thug standing puts up a pretty good fight one on one. Bruce wins in the end.
i understand and respect your opinion and your points which are valid as they are actually showing him dealing with such situation.
however i just pointed out there is also a high possibility of such a mob taking him down.
but how many thugs you think it would take to defeat him? is it a matter of numbers or a matter of batman tiring out eventually?
Its a matter of tiring him out. He will drop his guard, or he will kick that much too slow, then he'll get hit, but he can probably tank quite a few hits, before he goes down.
So for example, against the 50 thugs, maybe he'd get tagged ten times (just an example, I pulled that number out of my ass). But he'd be able to continue fighting having been punched ten times.
Numbers dont after THAT much, because like in the movie 300, there will be a choke point where superior numbers won't be able to help. Maybe its a literal choke point (so Bats is in an alleyway, or standing on a chimney) or it might be a figurative choke point ( the surface area of Bats, combined with the reach of these thugs).
Take a look, for example, at starving people when they're handing out food packages from a truck. The people at the back won't even get a look in, because the people in front are in their way. All they'd be good for is pushing.
but such a strategy can be pulled off only if he is using the neck bottle strategy from 300.
such strategy means for example he enters a room and then beats the crap out of the 1 - 2 who follows him thru the door.
however the whole point of this thread is can he do it in an open field where 50 thugs just jump on him from all directions.
Hence why I said figurative (surface area of Bats, combined with their reach).
I mean, are you envisaging Batman stands there and they dogpile him? Then after he gets piled on, he does nothing to the guys on top of him? What would the guys on the top of the dogpile then gonna do to him, when he's separated by layers of guys?
It'll be easier I think if you just wrote up the scenario you think would happen, and provide scans of when Batman was overwhelmed by normal unpowered thugs. Because I have.
same thing i can ask you, why do you think the guys on top of him wont do anything? you think they are just going to lay on top of him and do nothing? what happens in a street fight when such amount of people jump someone? they will kick his head, poke his eyes, hold his arms and legs pinning him to the ground he wont be able to move and only will get stomped.
if the 50 guys get him to the ground he is done.
Because they can't reach him. How long do you think their arms are? Say five guys pile on him. Then another five. then another five. Howbig do you rthink Batman is???
Also, I have shown you his one hit, instantaneous pressure point attack. Hence, the guys directly above him would be dead weight and wouldn't be doing anything. They can TRY to hold his arm, but unless al of them have decent leverage and a decent grip (which is unlikely, as they would be limited, only 1 or so guys would be able to grab each arm and hold it in a sufficiently tight grip to prevent him from moving. And that is even assuming an average thug has enough strength to hold Batman, which, as we have all agreed, is way above average humans. Hell, he's even above peak humans, some of the crazy stuff he's done.
Think about it. One guy, with his arm curled around mine, can hold me pretty effectively. 4 guys wouldn't be able to do that - it's physically impossible - my arm isn't that long. 4 guys would be able to have a hand on me though. And if I had Batman's level of strength? 4 hands holding me is easy to twist out of.
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Oct 22nd, 2013 02:30 AM
