But has that actually happened? I could say being flayed alive, dunked in a saltwater bath three times a day for as long as you could be kept alive, being chewed on by insects and rodents, having your eyes gouged out, and being forced to eat yourself would be a pretty horrific death. But it hasn't happened.
__________________ Ask me about my "obvious and unpleasant agenda of hatred."
i don't believe in god, so for me it's just the question of belief, whether he's good or bad....
i think, if he exists he's a f*cking jack*ass!
i don#t care, how much he wants to test us and i don't care how much fault this suffering is our own (all of it....), but there are enough people who didn't do anything, who could be very religious and they're life is still a living hell!
either that or he isn't almighty!
but luckily for me,he doesn't exist at all or my hate would ruin my life!
Gender: Unspecified Location: With Cinderella and the 9 Dwarves
Dragged on a hurdle to the place of execution
Hanged by the neck, but removed before death
Disembowelled, and the genitalia and entrails burned before the victim's eyes
Beheaded and the body divided into four parts (quartered).
And that is where ignorance comes into play. Being "religious" does not equate salvation. The Bible gives very clear instructions on how one must be saved. If those "religious" people choose not to follow them...well, nuts to them.
That is a politician's answer--yes or no? I don't do well with answers like that--I assume that you were not intending to be misleading--as, to me, it is like:
"Are some flowers red?"
"Flowers have many different colors."
__________________ Ask me about my "obvious and unpleasant agenda of hatred."
yeah the apaches used ants as a form of torture, many other American natives had other extreme forms of torture that was to see how much pain a man could take. How long did they last after being tortured, yeah and the Iroquois flayed their victims alive so did the Hurons and Abanakis
Gender: Unspecified Location: With Cinderella and the 9 Dwarves
First what about my torture up there?
Second: YOu always say atheists don't want to have anything to do with you so good God and he gives them that after death, but atheist actually would probably like to have something to do with God if he actually existed and we don't want to be separated from God and live with Demons we would either like heeaven too but since I can understand why we won't get that why can't we just stop existing as we (at least I) really wish?
Gender: Unspecified Location: With Cinderella and the 9 Dwarves
well exactly
I wouldn't define bad or good by worshipping god though
and well I am not god so what can I tell him/her what do you say ifd god is an it what I could believe best?
i wouldn't want to go to heaven, if it existed! and i wouldn't like god, if he existed!
because if the prophets or whoever were right, that god is almighty, i couldn't live with the fact, that someone/thing has so much power over me! it is said that he woudln't abuse it, but, well....how could i ever trust someone, having that kind of power over me and everyone?
OK, perhaps that WOULD be worse...but, where Jesus live, crucifixion was worse. And I think it would be difficult to judge either way unless one experienced them both...bleh.
I dismissed that earlier.
They made their choice in life. After death, it is too late for them to change their minds. I'm sure they would like it more, but it is too late for them.
Because, if "the prophets or whoever" were right, God WOULDN'T use it against you. By your logic, going to heaven is the only way that God can have power over you. But what if God *does* exist and He has power over you right now? In the end, does it matter?
__________________ Ask me about my "obvious and unpleasant agenda of hatred."
Gender: Unspecified Location: With Cinderella and the 9 Dwarves
Dragged on a hurdle to the place of execution
Hanged by the neck, but removed before death
Disembowelled, and the genitalia and entrails burned before the victim's eyes
Beheaded and the body divided into four parts (quartered).
Tell me whats in your ways better then being crucified here?
ANd we didn't change our minds its what we want in the first place.
would he take any advantage of manipulating you??
i think you got no other choice than trusting him.... if god exists, you dont know if he already manipulated you. so... theres one other choice... so commit suicide now? you wouldnt... because there are too many people you love and who love you...
what if youd have to decide after death to go to heaven or to die.
wouldnt that be the same as deciding to or not to commit suicide?
so youd hurt all your friends all persons you took into your heart and who took you in their hearts..... just because you dont like the idea of someone beeing able to manipulate you...? you are manipulated by everything you see, everyone you get to know.... and just because 1 person/thing/whatever could do that (and you wouldnt even be able to know that).... youd hurt so many people?
you would go to heaven i think there are only a very few persons (relatively to the mass of human beeings), who actually would decide for death.... though many wouldnt admit to go to heaven in such a situation, they definitely would...
thats my opinion....
Last edited by DuronKiller on Dec 20th, 2004 at 11:15 PM
Crucifixion was a horrible way to kill people... so much so that the Romans would not allow any of their subject or client states to practice it... the only crime that the Romans would allow to be punished by crucifixion was that of insurrection or rebellion against the Empire... in other words, saying you were the Son of God and preaching love just wouldn't get you crucified... and if the Sanhedrin attempted to get anyone crucified, the Romans would have had any such attempt stopped... the Jewish High Priest just didn't have the authority... although he could have ordered a stoning... when crucified, the victim was nailed or tied to a cross, usually but not exclusively a Tau or t-shaped cross, his wrists being secured to the cross-piece, while his legs would have been secured in such a way that he could take the weight of his body on his legs... after a while, the legs would tire, and the person would hang from his wrists, arms spread... thsi constricted the chest, slowly suffocating him... so he would put the weight on his legs again... and so on... a crucified person would be bobbing up and down usually for about two or three days before they died... sometimes a seat was provided for them to prevent them dying, and it was not unknown for a crucified man to last over a week... if the governor of a province thought a man deserved mercy, or in volatile areas such as Judaea where a crucifixion during a holy period could have sparked riots, the victim would have been stabbed through the stomach or chest to hasten the death... so when Jesus is pierced, that can be read as an act of mercy, or an attempt by Pilate to not provoke a riot, depending how charitable you want to be... it was a horrible way to die, and it is documented that Pilate, held to be one of the more ruthless and unpopular governors of Judaea, enjoyed crucifixions....
BGK, I'm going to clean up what you wrote a little . (Forgive me if I mess up the order of events; I'm quite tired.)
Jesus' Crucifixion:
1. Stress and anxiety produce a condition (hematidrosis/hemohydrosis) where the capillaries in the sweat glands burst, causing blood to be excreted with sweat. So Jesus sweated blood.
2. Jesus receives thirty-nine lashes with a whip that has chunks of glass in it. The whip is designed to strip the skin from the victim's back, and, with the thirty-nine lashes, Jesus' rib cage may have been visible.
3. People gather around Jesus, mocking and insulting him, some spitting at him, and they strip him down, ram a crown of thorns on his head, and dress him in a scarlet robe. Now, these aren't your rose thorns; these are long, thick thorns that would have penetrated deep into his head.
4. Jesus is re-dressed and made to carry his cross. His arms are bound to it and it weighs a lot. Perhaps 90+ pounds? Then Jesus has to drag the thing around, stumbling as he goes. Imagine what happens when you trip, cannot use your hands to break your fall, and have a large log strapped to your back? You break the fall with your chin.
5. The nails now come into play. These huge, blunt nails--that is BLUNT; they are not like our nails--get hammered into Jesus' wrists and ankles. What's worse is that the Romans "insert" the nails in such a way that a nerve is struck in the arms, creating an immense pain on top of Jesus' arms being run through by hunks of metal.
6. Now Jesus' cross is stood upright. The straightening of his arms breaks the aformentioned nerves. (Ouch.) And so begins the long, slow process of suffocation.
Crucifixion puts all the weight of an individual on his or her breast. This causes the individual to be unable to breathe without a great deal of effort. The victim must push him or herself up (using his or her now-crippled legs) to suck in air.
People could take quite a bit of time to die in this manner (that's when the punishers broke out the hammers), as the human body has this extremely powerful desire to survive. The victim, never losing consciousness, eventually cannot push him or herself up to take a breath and would have asphyxiated.
Now, imagine being put through all this. The anxiety, the pain of the skin and muscle of your back being flayed, the gouging thorns...imagine each one being done to you. Imagine it in grisly detail, down to your very last scream. Then name a worse death.
__________________ Ask me about my "obvious and unpleasant agenda of hatred."
well let say it is a heaven, and faithful chrisitians are heading there after death. What if they changed their minds then, whats the options for them.
KMC Community Forums
Dec 20th, 2004 05:47 PM
), but there are enough people who didn't do anything, who could be very religious and they're life is still a living hell!
i wouldn't want to go to heaven, if it existed! and i wouldn't like god, if he existed! 
i think there are only a very few persons (relatively to the mass of human beeings), who actually would decide for death.... though many wouldnt admit to go to heaven in such a situation, they definitely would...
. (Forgive me if I mess up the order of events; I'm quite tired.)
