@S66: I started typing my Revan vs Dooku essay but it got boring. So do you just want to actually debate it, or would you prefer me making a little blog about it?
__________________ "There is only Revan. Only he can shape this galaxy as it is meant to be shaped."
It doesn't matter. Just put what you typed, unless you deleted it. Just type what puts Revan that far above Dooku, and what I don't agree with, then I'll address whenever I can.
BTW, do you place Revan above Dooku as a swordsman?
__________________ "The power of the dark side is an illness no true Sith would wish to be cured of" -Darth Plagueis
Deleted. Let's just put it this way: do you think Dooku is more powerful than Marr / Shan / Protag / Protag Companion / Beniko combined?
Revan's not a "swordsman," so I don't really know. SOR Revan always uses the Force with his lightsaber, even in the simplest things like chaining lightning to the blade to make it more dangerous. Revan's never, ever, going to engage Dooku in a straight-up duel with no Force involved, so such a hypothetical situation is irrelevant. If it did unfold? They should be around the same level, with Revan's battlefield experience and superior Force augmentation making up for potential inferiority in technical mastery.
__________________ "There is only Revan. Only he can shape this galaxy as it is meant to be shaped."
Are you asking me if Dooku can defeat them? You don't have to be more powerful than the combined power of an entire team in order to win or to give them a challenge. I can give you plenty of scenarios--Dooku scenarios. To answer your question, no, but neither is Revan.
Wait, what? So you're saying Dooku's skills won't matter because of Revan's ability to multitask and shoot lightning from his blade? You have a gif of him doing that? And how consistent is this? Saber dueling is relevant to Revan otherwise he wouldn't even wield one. But that's why we are trying to establish how far above Dooku Revan is. If they are on the same level, then fancy feats like that would require more concentration and effort. It's the same way Maul wouldn't be able to torture Kenobi with TK while simultaneously crossing blades with Dooku just because he did so with a much weaker jedi. We'll just leave sabers alone for now, but you can add in skillful uses of the force, because that's what that is.
__________________ "The power of the dark side is an illness no true Sith would wish to be cured of" -Darth Plagueis
And no, Ant, I'm not discounting scripted events, if that's what you're thinking. I acknowledge that they are put in the game (beyond the players control) for a reason: to show the player what he is up against. But the fact of the matter is, it's hard to accept what doesn't make sense, for the same reason I no longer use the scripted event with Dooku damaging a huge plate form (on which he was fighting Windu and Kenobi on) with his lighting and then surviving falling in lava. But he did fight Mace and Kenobi. Such powerful attacks from Revan in which powerful force users are struggling against, yet non force users are surviving it. Am I to believe that Dooku is supposed to be two shotted by that? If it were the other way around, would you accept that? That's why I've always argued that scripted events within game mechanics can't always be accepted as full truth. How did Revan lose, and how did they all survive, especially non force users (or did any)? Now the part at the beginning is more of a cut scene, and happened exactly as depicted.
Is that fight what you are basing your opinion, or something else. Just be flat out.
I'm too sleepy, so maybe I'll get on by tomorrow and see what you got, or your counter argument.
__________________ "The power of the dark side is an illness no true Sith would wish to be cured of" -Darth Plagueis
Last edited by Dominis on Oct 4th, 2015 at 06:34 AM
Registered: Oct 2014
Location: France/Rezée (near Nantes)
Revan always use the force, to boost himself or lightsaber style... He is not a dude with a light saber, he is a dude with a light saber and the force, he can get creative with his force powers...
Look at all the force powers aviable and try to imagine what you can do, imagine the mooves the tricks the counters attacks. + If Satele can catch up a light saber with tutaminis, why not Revan? Especialy with is Sith/Rakatta gear. Immagine the unarmed combat possibilities that such things open....
Imagine all the possibility that Jar'kai combat can give you when you are gifted with TK. Imagine the benefit it give to be able to be able to switch back and forth between shien grip and regular grip.... Imagine the benefit of this during an attack.....
Anyway SoR Revan while using some interessting TK + light saber combinason still just to much blunt for me in term of light saber combat....
Even if I find stupid the "Dooku can take the entire omniverse if it is lightsaber only." I admit that Dooku can take the lightsaber part, but remember it is not a stomp.
I wasn't asking you anything that warranted a response besides "true, I concede," which is still what I'm going to pry out of you, but you're going to be stubborn so let's have some fun with it.
These are the type of telekinetic attacks Revan is going to unleash in battle against Dooku:
(please log in to view the image)(please log in to view the image)
Notice how Revan's releasing blasts that apply to all of the members involved. If he would do, say, a concentrated attack solely on one opponent (i.e. Dooku), do you think Dooku would resist / tank such an assault while the team couldn't? The answer's obviously no given Dooku's not close to as powerful as the combined might of Satele Shan, Darth Marr, Darth Nox / the Emperor's Wrath / or the Hero of Tython, their player companion which could be like Scourge or Khem Val, and Lana Beniko. Revan's going to instantly overwhelm Dooku's defenses with the type of telekinesis he said above. Even if Dooku manages to live through it, he's going to go down soon after as Revan unleashes more of his powers onto him. It's a battle against time that will forever favor Revan.
Secondly, I ask you how Revan isn't more powerful than this time. I would say telekinetically raping the team multiple times and then placing them in suspension which would have killed them makes it pretty obvious he's more powerful. Like I said, he was only defeated since the protagonist was spared thanks to the intervention of Revan's ghost (who also aided in the freeing of the other trap companions such as Darth Marr). Without him, the team would have lost - badly.
I'm lumping this all together as a red herring / "nope" / "please go back to English class." I dismissed the notion that pure lightsaber skill should be compared because it has absolutely no relevance. Revan's absolutely going to use the Force with his lightsaber, hence why he is such a dominating combatant. Hence why comparing a direct lightsaber to lightsaber comparison on the character is stupid. Instead, reference simply "combat abilities" in general, for it's going to prove better at comparisons. That being said, I'll play your game.
For the time being, I'll say Revan is better at Dooku in purely lightsabers as well.
My argument would be that his praise from his former master, Kreia, as having mastered all forms of combat to where he no longer needed the Jedi Order should be enough for a sufficient technical defense against Dooku's mastery at Makashi. His vast superiority in the Force (see above), and his overall raw power (being greater than Darth Nihilus), will allow him to augment his attributes (speed, strength, accuracy, etc.) to where it's greater than the Count, giving him an edge. We saw firsthand in the Revan novel he could casually augment his accuracy to perfection, and in Shadow of Revan he's moving fast enough to keep up with eight-man strike teams of the galaxy's greatest warriors in the Temple of Sacrifice and the Forgotten Terrace. His battle precognition will also be pretty ****ing useful in a battle like this. His battlefield experience across the Mandalorian Wars, Jedi Civil Wars, and against insane strike teams during the Galactic War will prove an additional edge over Dooku. Also, his ability to use the Force to Teleport will allow him to escape situations that may otherwise prove lethal.
That being said, Revan does things like chaining lightning or Telekinesis to his attacks, like I said many times now. For example, during the Temple of Sacrifice operation, he overcharges his lightsaber with lightning, allowing him to then release it as powerful rays. He obviously does the common Force push and whatnot throughout each attack, making him all the more unpredictable and harder to come close with.
Why do you type so much? That being said, since I'm great and know all things, and you know nothing, I'll give you a piece of my knowledge:
Why didn't the non Force-sensitives die? Well, they were going to. In fact, slowly. When Revan did his uberawesomesauce Telekinesis, he trapped them in a Force Whirlwind and slowly pounded them to death with the Force. It was described as "[Character] is slowly being destroyed by Revan." So they would have in fact die, just they were freed before that happened.
The next question is as follows: how did they live, and how did the protag escape his uberawesomesauce Telekinesis? Well, to put it simply:
His Force Ghost.
I'm not going through the plot or anything, so you should be aware there are two Revan's floating around and everything. His Force Ghost is pretty powerful, capable of affecting the physical realm to teleport strike teams, affect wildlife, and teleknetically move bridges. He also interfered with the fight. This is made undeniably obvious because, when Revan does his "Force Destruction" move, echoes are seen throughout the battlefield. They are able to counter Revan's power and neutralize it. The orbs are of the light and dark, and are used to counter the opposite side respectively. Like, Revan trapped the likes of Darth Marr in pure light side energy while he trapped Satele Shan in pure dark side energy. The orbs, which are basically described as "fissures" of spirit Revan's power, can counter it (which makes sense since they are both Revan).
If spirit Revan was not there, he wouldn't have saved the protagonist from the Telekinesis or supplied portions of his energy to free the other companions from physical Revan's hold. With such, the team would have all died.
tl;dr: Revan's raping Dooku with the Force. If Dooku manages to close the gap, Revan is well equipped to handle, if not best the Count, in a duel through a combination of superior attributes, comparable mastery, and greater experience. If he's ever losing, he can use his Force Teleportation to escape and reclaim lost ground (like we saw in the Temple of Sacrifice battle) far faster than Dooku can. Such an act would allow him to try to utilize Telekenesis again. The notion Revan isn't going to fight smart is silly given he's the greatest strategist in the Star Wars mythos. Even his "I'm dumb" moments are pretty intelligent if you think about it.
__________________ "There is only Revan. Only he can shape this galaxy as it is meant to be shaped."
Oct 2nd, 2015 04:40 PM
