If Will and Liz had problems, don't you think that Elizabeth and Jack would have problems? There was barely anything for Will and Elizabeth to 'sweep away'.
Once Will understood why Liz kissed Jack, that problem was solved. He never stopped loving her, and obviously he trusted her, "Maybe he does know what he's doing". Will says that when he finds out Jack helped Elizabeth become King of the Pirates.
Elizabeth was never so angry at Will that she was no longer in love with him. Call her 'problem' with him more like a minor irritation and slight disappointment.
Everyone says that Will put Elizabeth up on a pedestal, but it seems the same is true of Elizabeth. She expected Will to be non-piratey. She expected him to always be honorable, to never behave selfishly. She finds out Will is just as human as she is, and it startles her and disappoints her.
There was no rush; Will and Elizabeth NEVER stopped loving each other. Quite honestly, and I know many here would disagree with me, the relationship that would have needed the most healing is J/E, and to me that seemed to be an insurmountable problem, at least in terms of romance.
And I know the 'Sparrabeth' dominated DMC because of the over-whelming heat, however, the moments between Elizabeth and Will were wonderfully poignant and hot (read, Jail scene and Reunited on the Beach scene), from the sad exchange of smiles at their ruined weddings to Will's hurt and angry look when Liz gets into the longboat, to Will offering to bring Jack back...their relationship had developed so much in between CotBP and DMC that it was really lovely to see.
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I didn't care for their relationship. I liked the scene when Will got stabbed. How Liz was so upset. Maybe if Will wasn't so blech and Orlando wasn't so blech. Maybe if Johnny played Will and Jack. haha
Ah, I thought of a perfect replacement for Orli.. If only I could turn back time.
Even though I'm asparrabeth shipper,it doesn1t mean I don't like Will and Liz.I just simply think life is not as simple as that.What I miised in the movie was that neither Liz and Will,nor Liz and jack solved their problems.Liz and Will simply swept problems under the carpet.I know love is an important thing,but in a long distance relationship not solving their problems doesn't work.Believe me,I'm a married woman.And it was a stupid thing of the writers to separate a young married couple for ten years.That's unbearable,unhuman and cruel.If in the end they would live happily ever after i would have been ok with that,but this ending...
Gender: Female Location: Drinking rum with Jack in a dingy
i agree with ditte3 and iheartpocky, the relationship again was just too sappy.....i didn't find it to mature and develop as they claimed......
I will always believe that their was more development and depth to Jack and Liz......you all say that liz and will have an understanding that goes beyond words...but so does Jack and Liz..and jack and liz have chemistry and their little flirty scenes and spats were alot more interesting that anything that ever transpired between liz and wil
and being a married woman too.....i can tell you ....lust and chemistry goes alot further than just sweet and pure love.....
but, hey it's only the movies...and after all, a Disney Movie...so for us to expect anything more than that...well, they were just doing what was right by them......to take that risky plunge of going with jack and elizabeth was just too much for them to handle......
and I have to come to terms with the fact that Johnny himself didn't really want Sparrabeth......he was just fine with Jack being Jack and sailing away in a dingy all by himself....and I've known that all along..but i couldn't help hoping i was wrong.....
So, again, Kudos to Willabethers...you are the ones who long to see AWE over and over again.....while i spend my time watching sparrabeth on youtube and reading fanfiction, cause that's all we will ever have.....
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Gender: Female Location: Drinking rum with Jack in a dingy
and Surreal....i will bow to you...you are right with the fact that Will and Elizabeth never stopped loving each other...but in all of my statements and arguements i never claimed that they stopped loving each other..i always knew that Liz loved Will..but I just thought that she also loved Jack and i guess being the historical romance junky that I am...I saw Will as the sweet childhood boy who lived next door that the heroine has loved her whole life...until she is swept off of her feet by the debonair stranger that comes into her life...and then she finds out that there is more to life than what's right next door.....
And I felt that Liz and Jack had that more lustful adult love that is so much more stronger in the long run.....
and yes, I agree..Will loved Elizabeth so much he was willing to go back and get jack if he thought that was what would make her happy....but yet in AWE he more angsty about it like "when we rescue Jack"...."how can i trust you"....he just seemed more bitter and jealous than the way he appeared at the end of DMC....and that's why I use to think that in the end.....Will would set Elizabeth free...that he loved her enough to let her go instead of impregnating her and leaving her to raise a child for 10 years all by her onesy....as jack would say.......and I'm not saying set her free to be with Jack...just left it wide open as whether in 10 years she would still be in love with Will or find that there was more out there......that's all i'm saying...
But i guess if I was a Willabether I would be quite pleased and happy with the way the trilogy ended...because it's very final...very done.....especially the after credit scene......but it makes me wonder if there is anything for the two of them in a POTC 4..probably not..and since both actors have said they may not be interested in doing any more Pirate movies...that is probably why disney did it that way......
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I don't think he would go get Jack just for her. He was just asking her that. I think they were about to get into it but Tia cut em off. He might would play it off as "Yeah its for elizabeth" But all he really wants is the Pearl so he can free his father.
I'm still not getting these so-called problems Will and Liz apparently 'swept away'. If you pay attention in AWE, you can see where Will and Liz work out their very small problems.
Even Jack and Liz have some closure. Their 'romance' is dead at the beginning of AWE, so there's not much to do there, but by the time the Brethren Court roles around they are obviously a lot more comfortable around each other. Time and tide. Not everything has to be spoken aloud, some things just get settled on their own.
As for seperating Will and Liz, it happens all the time in the military. Granted, most couples aren't separated for ten years, but even so, I don't think Will and Liz spent all ten years apart.
Bet by three months they were already working out how to see each other more often. Will does not seem surprised to see Elizabeth waiting for him with a child, does he?
But I thought happily ever afters were so Disney and lame? Isn't that one of the main reasons you didn't like Will/Elizabeth in the first place? They were too typical?
This curse makes them unique in Disney history, I think. The female and male both become powerful members of their society (in this case, pirates and sailors), with Liz becoming Pirate King and Will becoming a captain of a spiffy supernatural ship. They don't get a happily ever after, at least not right away. They are vastly different, which is why Sparrabeth was embraced right? 'Cause the 'good girl goes for the bad boy' has NEVER been done before.
I guess Sparrabeth is rather typical after all then. I'm not dissing Sparrabeth, mind you. I'm just pointing out that for all that you seemed to think it was exciting and new and 'dangerous', it really wasn't.
Will and Elizabeth's romance has plenty of lust (If it weren't for these bars, I'd have you already), the way they touch, the way they argue, the knee nuzzling while Will's hand wanders up her thigh and (at least in my imagination, based on her expression) finds that one special spot...
They have the lust. They have the love. They have that fire, desire, passion, trust, joy, pain, anger, sorrow, just enough discord to make things interesting, and most importantly, the capacity and ability to change and accept each other.
I think their love is pretty darn mature. I'm not married, probably will never get to it, but if I had to choose, I'd pick what Will and Elizabeth have.
Well that's somewhat unfair. Will didn't exactly get her pregnant and leave her alone on purpose. He didn't have a choice. He asks if Elizabeth will wait for him, and he would accept her answer no matter what. She said yes, but even so, she had the freedom to change her mind if she wanted. Will didn't MAKE her do anything.
Maybe. Maybe he's play Sao for a fool as well. Based on Will's character, I don't know how much he's willing to allow Jack to die all over again, especially if he thinks Elizabeth is in love with Jack. Besides, is Will's reasons for wanting the Pearl back any more selfish than why Jack wants the Pearl?
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I hated the first shreek so much why did they have to make another 2! It was sooooooooooooooooooooooooo bad!
Any way yeah... i'm in the hamptons on a credit card machine (dollar pound exchange good but hell your computer rentals are expensive!) so yeah that's why i've not been here for ages but I thought i better come back to remind everyone WILLABETH IS THE BEST!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
And I got this really cool book that is called "bring me that horizon" and it's got loads of pictures and there's another one that is solid pictures. But my reading is like 10 year old so my sister said "If your going to buy stupid books like that..." OMG it's such a cool book! How could she say that! Yeah did I say this book is about the making of the filmssssss! Yes all 3! There is this amazing double page of Johnny holding DJ's heart! and a funny one of Keira filming the opening to dmc laughing her head off at the abandonned wedding! It's so cool! I already said that like a million times well actually only 3 or 4 but you get what I mean?
This is what happens when I go offline I get withdrawal symptons and type loads and anoy everyone! I should shut up! BYE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
(ah lightening!) Why is there no lightening in potc? P.S anyone got the book? Unfortunatly there are no willabeth (or sparrabeth) pictures in it.
Gender: Female Location: on the dingy with dear ol' Jacky
I agree...mostly anyway!! I agree that WE never stopped loving eachother...I agree that they trust eachother more than ever.
I think the ending was perfect for them. Maybe not for me cause I wanted JE but it was the perfect WE ending. When they are appart they can grow to love eachother more. I don't agree that Sparrabeth is typical and not 'dangerous' though...but that's an entirely different story.
Another point is that...well about Elizabeth wanting Will to be non-piraty...I think that ties in to Sparrabeth. Don't get me wrong! I'm not bringing JE into this and saying that it's a bad thing that it ties in to JE.
Just the opposite...it made WE stronger. I think if Will did some selfish things in COTBP or the beginning of DMC Elizabeth wouldn't be as disappointed but...one of the reason Elizabeth would never stay with Jack is that she didn't want a man as selfish as him. (even though a part of him is a good man but that's still another story)
She loved Will because he would always act in her benifit and after finding out that he has his own agenda sometimes she finds that she loves him no matter what he does..
That made WE stronger I think. Elizabeth understood that 'good', 'bad' or 'noble' don't play into the relationship anymore.
I must point out though that the slight turn off here FOR ME was that... Will and Elizabeth don't know eachother. After a year of being together they don't know eachother....but they do now and the relationship is ok.
When I asked about the WE problems...I didn't mean they still have problems. I was simply asking WHEN the turning point for them was and I do agree that on the sandbar everything started to be okay again...I loved that Elizabeth was desperate to stop Will from stabbing the heart but she figured the plan out and played along.
WE's good...I put my personal ideas aside (because that is YET AGAIN another story) when I say it's a strong relationship.
Sorry for rambling AGAIN just had to be said!
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Freedom...
It seems more selfish to me. I don't know. Will seems like he would do anything and actually sacrifice people for it.. whereas Jack wouldn't let anyone, at least his "friends" die over it. And, he's already given it up once. Will just acts... mean! hehe idk..
Well, we don't know if Will had an alternate plan to then save everybody, because things spun out and beyond his control after a certain point. It is quite probable that he had something in mind to rescue Jack later, or at the very least, he was hoping something would come up. Like Jack, I think Will was making everything up as he goes, so there is no solid plan except to get the Pearl and hopefully everything will fall into place.
I have to disagree with the idea that Will and Elizabeth didn't know each other. They did, and they still do. However, DMC pushed them to do things neither one really believed themselves to be capable of.
Elizabeth killed a man -- a friend, no less! Even SHE couldn't believe she'd done it. She couldn't deal with it, with the guilt and the terrible knowledge of what she'd become. She had to make it right.
Will misread all these signs and thought that Elizabeth loved Jack, so he did something he never thought he'd be capable of -- betraying those he's fought beside, and Elizabeth. Will is so loyal though his plans sort of falter, because he's not quite as able to do certain things and damn the consequences.
What I'm trying to say in a round about way is that Will and Elizabeth knew each other, but in desperate circumstances they both discovered an ugly side of themselves and each other, and that's what shook their relationship.
A soldier once told me that people really don't know what they are capable of until their lives or the lives of those they care about are on the line. And it's true.
I suppose I should clarify what I meant by 'non-piratey'. Elizabeth had a romantic vision of what pirates were, and in CotBP, she was a bit disappointed to discover that most of them seemed to be exactly what James had told her.
She expected Will to always be that romantic pirate, to be the unselfish one, to be good and just and wonderful and all that. She didn't expect him to betray the others, and she especially didn't think he'd betray her.
So by non-piratey I really just meant that she expected him to be a good guy who only did piratey things for the best and most noble intentions.
Although I do agree that Elizabeth was peeved that she was no longer a number one priority for Will. THAT must have stung.
Also, I don't want the impression to be given that all mention of Sparrabeth is evil. It's not. I like Sparrabeth, but I'm more fond of it without the mention of the Kiss of Doom. Blech. No matter how hard you try, you will never convince me that it was a moment of pure and wonderful passion between two loving people (which is what I like my kisses to be). It was just an all-around wrong kiss and I will never ever like it.
It's a breathtaking fanfic. It has some delightful Jack and Elizabeth interaction (no romance, sorry), but it's about Elizabeth dealing with those ten years.
Lots of Will, Will the third, a bit of Barbossa, and some of our other favorites make an appearance. It's wonderfully done and I think it really does justice to Elizabeth's character.
There's a dragon, the Fountain of Youth, sex, silly moments and a big fight between Will and Elizabeth that ends in an amusing way. Read!!!!
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I'm a little bit confussed as to Will thinking she loved Jack? I mean we all saw the way she screamed in singapore and basically saved his life, then the way she was so upset when she realised that he thought she loved Jack. And HELLO SHE SENT JACK TO THE LOCKER!!!!!! She can't possibly love him if she sent him to the locker!!!!
Surreal 44 I agree with the thing about Elizabeth not being his 1st priority anymore and she must be a little bit peved but I think what would have hurt more was when she realised he'd have to chose between her and his father. That part almost made me cry because bootstrap thought he'd chose Elizabeth, but you could tell Elizabeth was confused and totally unsure as to what he'd do because everything was so manic!
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There was barely anything for Will and Elizabeth to 'sweep away'. 
Jul 2nd, 2007 09:57 PM
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