Do you expect a mere profile to explain the ground realities of Valkorion in detail? indeed.
That profile is not wrong at asserting that Valkorion has lived for a millennia; from 5113 BBY - 3950 BBY (1163 years to be precise). However, repeated attempts on his life forced him to shed his mortal coil.
The Emperor created his first Voice after the legendary Jedi named Revan attempted to assassinate him on Dromund Kaas.
Taken from TOR Encyclopedia
What do you think happens when a Force-user sheds his mortal coil? He is (logically and technically) not a living being after that and his formless presence is (logically and technically) a spirit:
Death is not the end. For Sith strong in the dark side, the demise of the physical body will not stop their relentless campaign for power. Such Sith may return as intangible spirits, able to communicate with the living. Among the Sith, these spirits are viewed with caution as well as reverence: Sith entities tend to be powerful, raging at their own demise and seeking revenge, or able to cunningly manipulate the living. The spirits of powerful Sith Lords such as Marka Ragnos, Freedon Nadd, and Karness Murr influenced galactic events and inspired others to evil long after their physical deaths. For this reason, the Dark Temple on Dromund Kaas, which houses sarcophagi of the Sith Emperor's deceased enemies, is as much a prison as tomb.
Taken from TOR: Encyclopedia
Valkorion certainly lived for a millennia but shed his mortal coil after the events of Revan and was (logically and technically) a spirit henceforth. Any living being he directly 'possessed' afterwards, was identified as his Voice.
The Voice is the mouthpiece through which the Emperor delivers his orders. This possessed being sacrifices all consciousness to become a hollow vessel for the Emperor.
Taken from TOR: Encyclopedia
To keep it simple:
A being of unfathomable power and insatiable appetite, he transcended death multiple times, shedding his physical shells as they were discovered, defeated, and destroyed... only to return in another form.
Taken from TOR: KOET
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He now appears to the Outlander as an apparition, offering guidance and harsh lessons while carrying out a master plan that remains shrouded in secrecy.
Taken from TOR: KOET
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In-fact, we have an entire story arc of Valkorion that portrays him as an 'intangible apparition' before the events of Knights of the Fallen Empire; this chapter of his story is officially marketed as Rise of the Emperor.
"He did not assume a physical form or possess a body. And he left as soon as he appeared. None of it makes sense!" (Darth Marr)
Living beings were not able to understand the true nature of Valkorion when he interacted with them as an 'intangible spirit' because they were accustomed to interacting with his Voices and assumed that he too was a living being like them. This was not true.
Since Valkorion had become an 'intangible spirit' and was supremely strong in the Dark Side on top of that, other Force-users attempted to stop him but in vain:
"This is most distressing. Vitiate may be more powerful then any of us assumed. And as he does not appear to have any manner of physical form, he cannot be restrained or destroyed by conventional means." (Darth Marr)
&
The Empire's highest ranking officers and dignitaries are now in a state of heightened alert, and the Dark Council has assembled a contingent of powerful Sith seers to get a fix on the Emperor's presence. When he makes his move, it is believed he will not distinguish between former friend or foe, as they will all eventually become his food and none will remain.
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You continue to surprise me with your recent arguments, Beni. Time for you to stop cherry-picking from the available information and start looking at the bigger picture. Your half-baked attempts to make a point that suits your agenda won't go unchallenged.
Try to digest this:
"When it comes to absolute canon, the real story of Star Wars, you must turn to the films themselves—and only the films. Even novelizations are interpretations of the film, and while they are largely true to George Lucas' vision (he works quite closely with the novel authors), the method in which they are written does allow for some minor differences. The novelizations are written concurrently with the film's production, so variations in detail do creep in from time to time. Nonetheless, they should be regarded as very accurate depictions of the fictional Star Wars movies.
The further one branches away from the movies, the more interpretation and speculation come into play. LucasBooks works diligently to keep the continuing Star Wars expanded universe cohesive and uniform, but stylistically, there is always room for variation. Not all artists draw Luke Skywalker the same way. Not all writers define the character in the same fashion. The particular attributes of individual media also come into play. A comic book interpretation of an event will likely have less dialogue or different pacing than a novel version. A video game has to take an interactive approach that favors gameplay. So too must card and roleplaying games ascribe certain characteristics to characters and events in order to make them playable.
The analogy is that every piece of published Star Wars fiction is a window into the 'real' Star Wars universe. Some windows are a bit foggier than others. Some are decidedly abstract. But each contains a nugget of truth to them. Like the great Jedi Master Obi-Wan Kenobi said, 'many of the truths we cling to depend greatly on our point of view.' "
From Christopher Cerasi
Emphasis mine. Nothing is gospel in Star Wars with the exception of movies or G-Canon content on the whole. The rest is open to interpretation because people (including authors) tend to have difference in opinion and perception of same stuff. This is why we notice contradictions and retcons in published materials even if they all pertain to the same character. Most of the source materials that you tend to cite in your arguments represent the perception of historians or characters about the events in the past. Such revelations can be challenged on the grounds of new content that was not accounted for in an older source material.
Your interpretation isn't more valid than mine so stop pretending to be my teacher in these matters.
By the way, source material classified as Legends is no longer part of official Star Wars continuity. Much of the stuff in it is open to interpretation even more-so then before due to Canon-Legends split. Welcome to 2015.
Last edited by S_W_LeGenD on Feb 27th, 2017 at 04:10 PM
An individual who was identified (and documented) as the Sith Emperor in records for a vast period of his existence, is likely to be perceived as a Sith by individuals in the future UNLESS they had a suspect that there's more than meets the eye in this case. Unfortunately, Darth Plagueis's knowledge of the character in question was limited.
Consider real-world perspective for this matter. If you were a Republican in the past but switched your allegiance to Democrats recently, I will identify you as a Democrat at present. Your past is irrelevant to me unless a reference to it is necessary in an autobiography.
In the nutshell, this entire argument comes down to interpretation and perception.
Do also keep this in mind:
Though the Jedi archives held reports, recordings, holocrons, and data from throughout their history, the archives also contained incomplete information, inaccuracies, half-remembered stories, omissions, and outright falsehoods.
Taken from Star Wars: Core Rulebook
Sorry! This book covers Vitiate's story arc up to the point of Ritual of Nathema only. He (was) an ancient Dark Lord of the Sith during those days.
Same book also describes Ziost but does not covers Valkorion's part in its destruction.
1. In the absence of full account of Vitiate.
2. This revelation is open to interpretation.
Take a look:
Emperor Palpatine, secretly known as Darth Sidious, remains the most powerful Sith Lord and dark side adherent in the galaxy. His power may be unparalleled in the history of the Sith.
The top statement is definitive. However, the bottom statement leaves room for interpretation because the word 'power' is subjective in its meaning. It could be taking into consideration Palpatine's political strength as well.
Last edited by S_W_LeGenD on Feb 27th, 2017 at 04:12 PM
Hm..yet they are used for debates and in RT? Hm...plus Vitiate/Valk is a creation of BW yes? Or at the least just ask the guy who created the character.
The player is pulled into this struggle of two of the most powerful Force users, like ever, in the history of the Old Republic, if not beyond - Revan and the Emperor.
History of the Old Republic stretches from 25035 BBY to 32 BBY in the lore.
If Revan > Darth Plagueis according to BioWare then you can do the math for Valkorion.
Last edited by S_W_LeGenD on Feb 27th, 2017 at 05:13 PM
Right, but the books also establish a difference between the Old Republic Era, which only goes up to Bane's time, and the Rise of the Empire era, which is from then on.
Unlikely. Me coming out of retirement for AP would be like me coming out of retirement for Leg. This thread has all the charm and factual basis of a Trump press conference.
Just where did you get that from? I quickly grabbed my copies of Darth Plagueis and Kenobi off the shelf and they had the Rise of the Empire era starting at 67 BBY. My scanner's broken so I can't scan it for you right now.
BioWare's referring to the game The Old Republic, lol.
Goddamn, Leg, when you try to argue that Yoda isn't the strongest Jedi of all time, because he is only One of them then how the ****ing hell can you argue that Revan > Plagueis, because Revan is one of the strongest Force Users ever?
The player is pulled into this struggle of two of the most powerful Force users, like ever, in the history of the Old Republic, if not beyond - Revan and the Emperor.
@Legend - Do you have the hardback? That probably explains why.
I don't know how the higlighted parts matter, but it's all meaningless in the end anyway because the quote only expresses Revan and Vitiate being two of the most powerful beings in the OR era, not the concrete two most powerful. In no way does Plagueis fall under that jurisdiction.
indeed.
Feb 27th, 2017 04:05 PM
