You call a fighter - good or bad - when they fight on equal 'ground'.
__________________ RealistRacism: "Sheevites, much like the Banites, were meant to increase in power with each member. From Lightsnake to Gideon to Azronger, this was supposed to be the case. However, knowledge must've been lost in some kind of Gravid-like incident, as Az turned out to be a mid-tier debater with a sub-par track record, sh!itting all over Tempest's legacy. Sad."
All these sources love to spank his butt - when it's not even in Palpatine's character to be an absolute weapon master. He even makes this remark by saying that Sith outgrew past the use of lightsabres.
I don't know what's worse: Palpatine's illogical wank or Valkorion's excessive wank?
__________________ RealistRacism: "Sheevites, much like the Banites, were meant to increase in power with each member. From Lightsnake to Gideon to Azronger, this was supposed to be the case. However, knowledge must've been lost in some kind of Gravid-like incident, as Az turned out to be a mid-tier debater with a sub-par track record, sh!itting all over Tempest's legacy. Sad."
No. It is in Palpatine's character to be a brilliant manipulator and Force user.
__________________ RealistRacism: "Sheevites, much like the Banites, were meant to increase in power with each member. From Lightsnake to Gideon to Azronger, this was supposed to be the case. However, knowledge must've been lost in some kind of Gravid-like incident, as Az turned out to be a mid-tier debater with a sub-par track record, sh!itting all over Tempest's legacy. Sad."
__________________ RealistRacism: "Sheevites, much like the Banites, were meant to increase in power with each member. From Lightsnake to Gideon to Azronger, this was supposed to be the case. However, knowledge must've been lost in some kind of Gravid-like incident, as Az turned out to be a mid-tier debater with a sub-par track record, sh!itting all over Tempest's legacy. Sad."
By the time Yoda fought Sidious - their ability to wield the Force was severely weakened.
''sides that; that's lightsabre skills - not universal combat skills. That's the main point about Sidious' wank.
__________________ RealistRacism: "Sheevites, much like the Banites, were meant to increase in power with each member. From Lightsnake to Gideon to Azronger, this was supposed to be the case. However, knowledge must've been lost in some kind of Gravid-like incident, as Az turned out to be a mid-tier debater with a sub-par track record, sh!itting all over Tempest's legacy. Sad."
I was talking about him being a Mary Sue in the universal arts of combat. He may, well know all lightsabre forms, but that doesn't mean (he should) know/s different types of combat(plus gun skills)
Props to Yoda for fighting on 'equal ground' with Palpatine despite his Force abilities were being hindered.
But - as far as I recall - the lightsabre contest was in Yoda's favor because Sidious quickly changed his lightsabre attacks to Force attacks.
__________________ RealistRacism: "Sheevites, much like the Banites, were meant to increase in power with each member. From Lightsnake to Gideon to Azronger, this was supposed to be the case. However, knowledge must've been lost in some kind of Gravid-like incident, as Az turned out to be a mid-tier debater with a sub-par track record, sh!itting all over Tempest's legacy. Sad."
There's all your posts in this thread up to your reply to me besides the video. You refer to lightsaber skill numerous times.
As well as the direct chain
That is purely talking of lightsaber skills. Don't move the goalposts.
Basically the Savage Maul fight doesn't count as skill because he was faster than them. And the Yoda fight doesn't count as skill because in your mind Yoda was weakened (while still being faster) and Yoda was winning?
Which still leaves us with Sidious fighting well for a long period of time against Yoda (a longer lightsaber fight than a lot of Star Wars battles for that matter). A faster combatant. So, how is this not a great display of skill?
Not to mention they had a pretty extensive lightsaber duel in an area that heavily favored Yoda. You would need some good hard facts to prove Yoda was weakened in a way to impact his dueling. You would then need to explain how him being weakened makes his speed advantage any less. So Yoda is slower than he normally is (in your mind), how exactly does that take away from the fact that he is still as fast or faster than Sheev?
And you'd need to explain how his speed in lightsabers isn't actually his lightsaber skill as well. What's next, Yoda isn't actually very skilled because he's faster than everyone? That is his fighting style.
Fact is Palpatine's skill with a saber allowed him to combat a faster opponent. Yoda could have been suffering from Sickle Cell and as long as he's still faster than Palpatine, that is the relevant part. You tried to take away Sidious' showing because he was faster than the Maul sisters. Yet you still do everything in your crabby little claws to make Sidious look bad when he himself does incredibly well against a faster opponent. Can you see the issue here?
1. It was explained in ROTS novel and throughout a few other Legends materials - that Sidious was hindering the Jedi's abilities.
2. Force speed doesn't mean lightsabre skills. Otherwise Flash is a greater martial arts fighter than Bruce Lee because he is faster.
3. Yoda was not faster than Palpatine in ROTS. In fact they were evenly matched.
4. When Palpatine saw he couldn't win against Yoda in lightsabre combat - he resorted to his use of Force abilities.
5. No. It wasn't a draw in lightsabre combat. Otherwise he wouldn't switch to Force abilities.
6. Palpatine was 'barely' surviving in that match. It's impressive that he held his own against Yoda - however that doesn't credit him with the title of GOAT. Especially when that duel was pretty short.
__________________ RealistRacism: "Sheevites, much like the Banites, were meant to increase in power with each member. From Lightsnake to Gideon to Azronger, this was supposed to be the case. However, knowledge must've been lost in some kind of Gravid-like incident, as Az turned out to be a mid-tier debater with a sub-par track record, sh!itting all over Tempest's legacy. Sad."
Post the statements that show he was hindering the combat abilities of the Jedi in a way that weakened someone like Yoda. Because the implications of this are way worse than simply stalemating a weakened Yoda.
"He wasn't equal to Yoda in skill, he was simply depowering all the Jedi in the Order." Oh Jeeze, how bad does that look for Sidious!
And that would be a relevant discussion if you could divorce his speed from his skill. Otherwise you have no base at all to judge him off of. It's the exact same thing as arguing that Yoda isn't skilled because of how fast he is. They are skilled enough to be near perfect in lightsaber skills with this "increased" speed. And they are skilled enough to have a lightsaber duel with each other as well.
But yes, contrast a real life person with Flash. That's a fair comparison. Nevermind the fact that Flash can be as skilled as they want him to be, but you're using someone like Flash who you presume to be sloppy as a basis. Can you point out examples of Sidious' lack of skill and technique to help your comparison? Can you point out anything that would lead us to believe Sheev is sloppy like you assume Flash is?
Though that comparison again doesn't exactly help. Sheev isn't skilled, he's just like Flash... way faster than his opponents and thus he can beat them in a duel... ouch.
Plus a lot of Bruce Lee's hype is exactly from his speed. Most of it I'd wager. He's not any more "skilled" than any professional boxer, he's just faster than a lot. But you using him as a pinnacle for skill is cute. Or do we flow back into speed and skill complementing and furthering each other?
You mean the tiny guy that was flipping around at high speeds while Palpatine was fairly "planted" in comparison isn't faster? He was jumping between lightsaber swings... Very well though, all that does is lead us back into the main point; they are close in skill level. You calling them evenly matched doesn't help. If they were the same speed, then how was Sidious able to fight on par with Yoda on a tiny podium? How is this not a skill showing? By all means this fits your description of what skill should look like. We took the speed out of the equation and Sidious can more than hold his own with Yoda. Why is this not a skill showing?
Yes, why on Earth would Sidious use all of his abilities in a fight to the death? You said it yourself that he's more of a force wielder than a duelist. Ask yourself why a force wielder would want to distance himself from a lightsaber battle on a tiny podium when he could safely hurl large heavy objects from afar. Even if he was wearing Yoda down and winning the lightsaber duel, the risk is still greater than simply chucking objects at him.
I never said it was a draw, though what we've seen on screen and the novel certainly do paint it as such, but I recall some statement where it said he was disarmed, which I never looked for the source (in the Dark Horse Comics, later published by Marvel, Sidious was shown blasting Yoda off the platform while still having his own saber). All I said is he did incredibly well in an unfavorable position. Something that following your logic in this thread should be something you would applaud.
And that duel was an all out 40 second duel where neither looked better and some happened off panel. Which is more than what we can say of most onscreen duels. I bet the attacks lobbed in that instance number in the top 15 of lightsaber duel attacks in animation and movies. It was enough to gain a measure of skill.
So why isn't Sids vs Yoda a great skill showing? Does Sidious even have any good showings to you? What is his most impressive skill showing in your opinion?
And, yet he loses in lightsabre combat against a newbie Dark Empire Luke Skywalker on his flagship who barely defeated Vader because Vader was holding back.
Bruce Lee was a popular example.
Main point was that one who is faster than another doesn't prove they have superior combat skills.
Palpatine:
-loses against Windu
-barely competes with Yoda
-loses against Luke
Heck, even in TFU - when you encounter Palpatine - he is only making use of his Force abilities.
__________________ RealistRacism: "Sheevites, much like the Banites, were meant to increase in power with each member. From Lightsnake to Gideon to Azronger, this was supposed to be the case. However, knowledge must've been lost in some kind of Gravid-like incident, as Az turned out to be a mid-tier debater with a sub-par track record, sh!itting all over Tempest's legacy. Sad."
Last edited by Freedon Nadd on May 1st, 2018 at 04:37 PM
If anything - most Legends material depicts him as a Force wielder and not lightsabre combat expert - and rightfully so.
__________________ RealistRacism: "Sheevites, much like the Banites, were meant to increase in power with each member. From Lightsnake to Gideon to Azronger, this was supposed to be the case. However, knowledge must've been lost in some kind of Gravid-like incident, as Az turned out to be a mid-tier debater with a sub-par track record, sh!itting all over Tempest's legacy. Sad."
Apr 28th, 2018 06:40 PM
