EVANGEL94's Final Slugfest Tournament: Round 2-4; Digimark007 vs Darthgoober
All tournament participants must vote. Do not abstain. Non-participants/regular viewers must have 1000 posts on KMC forums to vote. Voting is not allowed until the first 10 hours of the match has elapsed.
First things first, Digi’s spying is not going to do him a bit of good. Surfer’s Cosmic Awareness will pick up Digi’s attempts to spy. After that it’ll be child’s play to use my Reed Richards template in conjunction with Surfer’s powers to create a device capable of somehow interfering with any “spy” techniques Digi uses. I don’t happen to have a scan of such a device just yet (I’m still looking though), but I feel that it’s a logical enough extrapolation of the character’s abilities for the judges to buy it anyway. Though if necessary, I can post enough scans to prove that Reed can build a device to counter pretty much ANYTHING.
So with that done we’ll move on to phase two of my prep. Just like last time I’ll start a rinse and repeat process using the combined abilities of Reed Richards, the Fixer, Hank Pym, Mar-Vell, the Silver Surfer and the Super Adaptoid to create a whole army of Adaptoids to do my bidding. For those interested in the details, here’s a link to the Round One post with an in depth description of the Adaptoid creating process for those that are interested http://www.killermovies.com/forums/...28#post10280528
But since my opponent this round is Digi rather than Trick, I don’t feel like being quite as generous with my time estimation, so we’ll look at that a little more closely.
So if we do the math, that means that the entire process of creating an adaptoid is going to take 20 seconds TOPS, and that will result in a significantly higher number of adaptoids at the end of my prep, as I’ll now demonstrate.
Of course the Super Adaptoid making QUITE that many while “in character” is a bit of a stretch, but we know for a fact that it’s totally “in character” for him to create one for every person on Earth… http://img139.imageshack.us/img139/...sv129009el5.jpg
…so Digi will be facing somewhere between 5 and 6 BILLION adaptoids total .
Now I know the battlefield seems a little small to have that many beings on it at first, but keep in mind that Hank Pym is one of the people’s who’s template I’m using during the creation process so I should have no problem fitting them all… http://img411.imageshack.us/img411/...ers04511ie3.jpg
And since that should just about do it as far as prep goes, my team will revitalize themselves with the Nega Bands, assume the appropriate templates for battle, and activate any force fields or other defensive measures they have available. As far as what templates, just to keep things simple we’ll say that 3 billion will retain the powers of the Silver Surfer, and the rest will take on the properties of every possible combination of abilities that the adaptoids have access to. As for the abilities that’ll be mixed and matched between them, here’s a list of virtually every template the Adaptoids have access to…
Jarvis
Captain America
Goliath-
Hawkeye
Wasp
Thor
Ironman
Hercules
Quicksilver
Vision
Scarlet Witch
Beast
Mar-Vell
Thing
Fixer
Mentallo
Dr. druid
Machine man
Spiderman
If anyone doubts my characters having those templates, I have scans proving they’re available.
100,000 adaptoids will be keeping everyone in mental contact with each other and coordinating the battle and another 100,000 will be working as “guards” for them and my reserves. When the fight starts, 1 Billion of my “Surfer Adaptoid’s” will hang back and use Surfer’s powers to replenish the numbers of any adaptoids that are destroyed by the opposition. That means that I can make up to 1 billion adaptoids every 20 seconds if necessary. I’ll be hanging back too(using the templates of Captain America, Mar-Vell, and Vison) coordinating the battle with my adaptoid reserves.
When the bell rings, we start with the very basic strategy of using cosmic awareness to pick up info on our opponents, then blasting off at top speed and unleashing Hell in our opponents in every conceivable manner(just use your imagination).
The Doctor opens a portal through which we can spy. Thor is intimately familiar with both Surfer and Adaptoid, and can brief our team.
I can, using this power (which I paid for), respond to goober’s prep with more of my own in my next post or two. As before, the plan is not to need it, but it would be wasted points if I didn’t use it at some point, so the option remains open.
Step 2: Up To Speed
Brief rundown of my past match, and overriding strategy:
The Doctor can create anything he needs to with inorganic matter manipulation (which is legal), and we can mine the resources that are Reed and Lex’s inventions/possessions to do so.
Via a telepathic link, Habib can create any of the tech needed in mere moments. 15 minutes is far longer than we’d need (a few minutes, at most, to transmit the devices and functions to the Doctor’s psyche). Keep in mind that while it is matter manipulation, the Doctor doesn’t need formulas and atomic structures like, say, Firestorm. The matter manipulation responds to his thoughts, and produces affects according to his (and by extension, Reed’s and Lex’s) instructions. The next section will detail exactly what we’ll be building, and how we’ll implement it.
Also, any tech does not count as a power boost, as it is extrinsic. This has been confirmed.
…
Before moving on, I promised I’d clear up something for goober. The issue was between matter manip. vs. reality manip. which is what goober thought The Doctor did. This is not the case.
Other scans corroborate these, but I hope this makes my point, since I’d rather not spend more time than is needed to justify myself.
But the important this is this: if he “thinks” a door into air, he’s simply thinking “air” and the molecules respond accordingly, rather than Doctor spelling out the atomic sequence. This is why he is simply a matter manipulator, but is at the top of the manipulators’ class because of its instantaneous nature (except in obvious exceptional situations involving other matter manipulators or tricky case like the one posted earlier)
The suit allows Luthor to combat Superman. The glowing barrier is an energy shield capable of withstanding Kal’s punches and heat vision. It also grants him enough speed to combat Supes. Both important attributes that will negate my team’s initial weaknesses.
Now, is the suit > Superman? No. If goob is interested, he can dig up the issue and post the end of the fight where Kal beats him down. But he took punches, gave them, matched speed and strength with Supes, etc. It legitimately puts a person at a herald level, which is all I need to ensure basic protections for my team.
Also, Lex fires some energy into Mjolnir for future use.
The scans speak for themselves. I’m building it, then firing it at them.
Step 4: Battle Plan
The Galactus-busting weapon won’t be pointed at space, but forward at the battlefield. We’ll be on a far end of the battlefield, behind the weapon and slightly off to the side of it.
But a Galactus-busting blast is >>> an exploding giant monster, you say. Quite true. One, we’re behind the gun, not directly in the blast (goober is though). Second, there’s more. The only thing outside the forcefield will be Mjolnir, which Thor will extend just outside of it as he stands just inside. He soaks up residual energies: http://img152.imageshack.us/my.php?image=absorb1iu0.jpg
…making The Doctor’s work easier.
- Doesn’t matter how much goober builds. That kind of blast will end his whole team.
- There will be no chance to copy my team with Adaptoid, or alter the weapon we have created with any of Surfer’s powers.
- Even after all of that, he’s still facing 2 people in Superman-level suits, Thor, and a 3rd guy in the battle suit (Doctor) who’s also the tourney’s final word in matter manip, psi, and tk departments.
How will goober react in his debating to the Galactus-busting gun? There’s a few options. Let’s look at them.
1. Intangibility: dealt with in the writeup
2. Surfer’s Speed: First, it will be firing as the match starts. There won’t be a chance to react. Second, take another look at the scans of the weapon. Once it gets into space and takes out 20% of the Galactus ships, try to imagine how wide the blast is compared to the shot of Earth. It’s easily miles wide. Now, our battlefield is limited quite severely…an indestructible bubble 10 miles in diameter. In other words, there’s nowhere for them to go. The blast would engulf pretty much everything, and we can swing it back and forth with merely a thought to catch anything that the blast may have missed.
This is also why I’m prepping my own shields and energy absorb with Thor, because with such a limited space, a lot of the energy will get back to us even though we’re not directly in the blast’s path. But my team is prepared for it. Goober has no such advantage.
3. Energy Soak: Hehe. Surfer can’t begin to hold this kind of energy. Hell, he was overloaded and turned insane from a microscopic fraction of the sun one time (in or around the Infinity Abyss saga). This kind of blast would kill him outright. Not to mention that the weapon, in the comic, was stationary, and so could only do a limited amount of damage and only fired once as a result. We can continue to fire as long as we need to.
4. That should cover it. Goober’s a clever guy so there’s probably more to say about this, and more that I’ll have to say in response, but he’s fighting an uphill battle from the start.
Clone Wars (see also: Debunking the Nonsense)
1. I have no problem with the fact that Surfer has matter manip. powers, and also microscopic vision in order to analyze materials he needs to copy. But how exactly would he copy himself (since Surfer/Adaptoid is an amalgam)? He would need to “see” inside himself into the inner workings of his body. It’s like asking me to say why my heart beats. It does, but I can’t analyze it without outside equipment. Surfer’s powers only extend to the extrinsic, and I fail to see how it could possibly apply to intrinsic copying as well.
2. Second, has Surfer ever copied something organic? Ever? And given it sentience and autonomy? And power equal to his own? The scans goober provided as justification fall VERY short of proving this sort of power and control. Tinkering with computer systems and making small objects is nowhere near cloning herald level beings.
By this logic, Surfer possesses the same power as Galactus, since he can create an infinite number of heralds like himself.
And as confirmed by his writeup, all he shows in manipulation of basic suits of armor, and computer data. Possibly handy for Adaptoid-copying, but not to transfer his own powers, and also problematic because of the aforementioned intrinsic copying that would need to take place due to his amalgamation.
3. Third, Surfer’s power is finite. In goober’s plan, he is imbuing each new dupe with equivalent power. But let’s see what happens when he gives even one person power: http://img223.imageshack.us/my.php?...ransfer1io1.jpg
So how is he justifying giving thousands power? By “creating” them instead of “giving” them power. But in that scan, the transfer of power is simply Surfer’s power cosmic taking a different form and being used differently. Creation of dupes is a transfer of his power cosmic into a different form as well. So why does he have infinite ability to transfer this power in goob’s plan? The answer is, he doesn’t. He’d make 1-2 dupes (if he could even do that much), then have to stop or risk diffusing his power into too many hosts.
4. Lastly, half the scans goober showed didn’t even include creation of things via matter manip. They involved destruction or other powers that weren’t even linked (like his scan for “creating” the Nega Bands was to show Surfer merging a guy wearing the N-Bands with his surfboard, and another of him destroying something looking like N-Bands was meant to show us that he could create them). He’s extending his powers way too far.
This plan falls down in numerous ways. Hopefully I've summarized them well.
Spy Vs. Spy
Cosmic awareness of us would amount to spying himself, however subtle it may be, so saying that he’d spy my spying is both false and potentially illegal. I’m the only one that can spy.
But since goober mentioned it, I’d like to use this time to use my spying ability and have Reed make us psi-blockers: http://img218.imageshack.us/my.php?image=17cg4.jpg
…since 1-2 of the Adaptoid templates involve telepathic powers.
Adaptoid Insanity
So let’s say you buy Goober’s prep (you shouldn’t…see the above sections for details). 6 Billion Adaptoids are still relegated to the 10-mile bubble we’re in, and they’d all still be incinerated by my gun, whose spread will engulf the battlefield. They’d be tripping over each other, and killed in the opening seconds anyway.
And the electronic converters are beyond worthless. Who on my team has magnetic powers like Magneto?
1. Absorb it. Let’s keep something in mind here, there are BILLIONS of Adaptoids present and inbetween myself and the gun. Among the abilities of the various adaptoids present are The Silver Surfer, Thor, Mar-vell, and that’s an unreal amount of energy absorption that’s available. Will it destoy many of them, absolutely, but I have more than enough to whether such a loss. If Thor’s hammer can absorb a blast capable of destroying a 5th of the universe, then a million or so slightly inferior copies should have no problem with the blast from the gun.
2. Block it. That’s right, I said block it. Among the adaptoids are a LOT of guys carrying Captain America’s shield, and even more with the abilities to create force fields. Again I may lose a few, but I have sufficient adaptoids to handle such a loss and lets face it, not even a wielder of the Infinity Guantlet could blast through a million “Captain America shields” simultaneously.
3. Teleport behind it. That’s right, just have all the adaptoids with Surfer’s powers teleport directly to my opponents location and not worry about the blast at all. http://img253.imageshack.us/img253/...rsurfer1tl0.jpg
5. Use my “Electronic Converters”. As the scan I posted earlier showed, the electronic converters will reflect the energy right back at Digi.
It’ll of course turn to rain and not hurt them if I use the second teleportation technique or the Electronic Converters, but it’s not going to be doing any damage to me either.
I could go on and on with counters for a single large blast all day, but I think I’ve proven that it’s no problem for something like my army to handle.
“Clone Wars(nice name by the way)”
Did you not catch the part where I talked about all the templates I was taking on before I started the adaption process? You’re not just dealing with the mind of the Super Adaptoid, the guy has the technical knowledge of Reed Richards, Hank Pym, and the Fixer at his disposal, that’s more than enough brain power to build damn near anything from scratch. What’s more, you’re forgetting that the Super Adaptoid was built with an innate knowledge of himself and just how his powers work. The Super Adaptoid was actually MADE to replicate, which is why he was given the ability to create other adaptoids himself… http://img216.imageshack.us/img216/...cxm02905zk3.jpg
Digi I’m not cloning herald level beings, I’m creating adaptoids. An adaptoid without a single template hardly qualifies as “Herald level”, it doesn’t hit “herald level” until I program the templates into it.
See it all breaks down to very simple parts…
1. Create basic adaptoid body.
2. Program Adaptoid templates
As for where Surfer’s powers will be coming from, it’s a simple matter of the first adaptoid I make copying them from me. Once he’s done that, Surfer’s powers can be transferred via programming with all the rest.
As for Surfer creating a sentient computer, he’s never done it to my knowledge. But he has REPROGRAMMED sentient computers several times so we know his power can handle programming that complex…
Reprograms Galactus’s Punisher http://img519.imageshack.us/img519/...rvol3012ti7.jpg
And even if those things weren’t true, I think guys like Reed, Hank Pym, and the Fixer have built enough robots and androids to prove that they know how to do that kind of thing.
I’m not giving them MY Power Cosmic, I’m giving them a COPY of my Power Cosmic. But just to put the issue to rest, even if I WERE directly granting a portion of my Power Cosmic to them it wouldn’t matter because of the Nega Bands… http://img182.imageshack.us/img182/...vel05816tg5.jpg
The scan of Legacy and the Nega Bands wasn’t to suggest that I’d be creating them, I get them anyway from the Super Adaptoid. The Nega Band and Quantum Band knockoff scan was to demonstrate the level of tech Surfer is capable of transmuting. My ability to create the matter for the bodies is amply demonstrated in the scan involving the creation of a complex cosmic weapon from pure energy and the creation of Quasimodo’s body..
Spy vs. Spy
I’m not spying, I’m noticing something that’s there whether I look for it or not. I have no idea of what’s going on with you or your team, all I know is that there’s something like a spy portal in my immediate vicinity. Think about it like this, if you somehow altered changed the color of the sky to pink with poka dots would you call my noticing the sky overhead as being “spying” on you? I’m not actively trying to scan for you or anything, it’s just that Surfer notices when he’s being spied upon… http://img301.imageshack.us/img301/...v3112p02vp4.jpg http://img206.imageshack.us/img206/...v3112p03sn8.jpg
It all comes down to simple numbers, and Digi just doesn’t have enough. To handle the onslaught I can unleash. Surfer’s speed is more than sufficient to react to Digi’s opening blast as Surfer’s shown numerous times…
So with all that out of the way, I’ll take the time to point out some major flaws in Digi’s basic strategy.
That rule alone throws some major kinks in Digi’s plan. First of all it means that there’s NO WAY Lex is going to be giving out some of his best tech to a rival brain like Reed Richards. By the same token, Thor and Reed damn sure aren’t going to be working well with Lex, since they’ll view working with him the same way they would Dr. Doom, with extreme caution.
Beyond the problems his team will be having with each other, let’s keep in mind that this is hardly a situation were it’s “in character” for hero types like Reed and Thor to be making a giant death ray. Against Galactus it makes absolute sense because otherwise the Earth gets destroyed anyway. But barring something like that, there’s no way Reed’s going to risk letting someone like Lex Luthor know how to build one of his own.
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Last edited by darthgoober on Mar 18th, 2008 at 12:49 AM
There aren’t billion (I’ll get to that in a minute) and there’s not enough time to react to absorb all of it.
But you’re missing a larger point. We can fire the gun as long as we need to. Let’s assume that the gun fires and they absorb it fine for the first 5 seconds or so. It keeps coming. They begin to reach their limits. It keeps coming. Eventually you die. It’s just a matter of how soon. I think it would be in the opening moments, but it would only be a matter of seconds, not minutes, for this to happen even in the best scenario.
If it’s forcefields, it’s the same battle of attrition as absorption. The limits of your characters would be reached very quickly. As for “blocking” it, that has to be a joke, right? The sheer kinetic force will annihilate most of your army, not to mention the sheer energy of it. And shields don’t cover the whole body, nor do they protect against a beam that will engulf the entire 10-mile battlefield.
And if I had the IG, I’d turn the billion shields into tear gas, so it would look even more tragic as you cry while your bodies disintegrate.
You must’ve missed the part where my team set up camp at the far end of the battlefield, basically with their backs to the (indestructible) wall. This sort of tactic is precisely why I did that.
Also, the teleportation scan was woefully small. We’re in a blizzard, so visibility is low anyway. All I do is fire the Galactus-buster. You’d have a lot more to do in a short time, and wouldn’t have the chance.
Same problem as before. There’s no “behind me” to teleport it to. We’re encased in a dome and I’m firing toward you from one of the sides.
Nothing about the attack is electric. I’m shooting primordial energy from an unborn universe at you (essentially a Big Bang). Those will do nothing. They aren’t EM converters, they aren’t energy converters. They’re electric converters. Fortunately, I don’t have Magneto.
Clone Wars
Thanks, btw. I thought it was clever too….though I usually try for about 3 clever names a post, and they usually don’t work ( ).
That’s kinda sketchy to be basing an entire strategy off of, don’t you think? He can allegedly “evolve others” into beings like himself, according to that scan. So, one, he’d need “other beings” to evolve (you don’t). Second, evolving isn’t the same as outright creating something. Third, we don’t have any idea how long the process takes, or if he’s ever actually done it. Maybe he has, but something tells me you would’ve posted it if he had, rather than the speculative proclamation that he can.
Fourth, fifth, sixth, Surfer doesn’t have the power to do all this, and most of the problems I mentioned earlier still stand.
…
Now let’s look at each of Goober’s scans, and how he plans on justifying this strategy.
…size added for emphasis ( )
“Reprograms” is a generous word to use here. He fires a blast at its brain and says “maybe he’ll consider himself an enemy if I blast his face.” He does, as PIS must. But Surfer clearly wasn’t even sure of himself, even with reprogramming (not creation).
Again, the computer is already built and he adjusts one crystal-disk thingy in it (not entirely sure what it’s made of). It’s the equivalent of running anti-virus software on your computer and claiming you built the thing. Props for knowing what to hit, but not what you need.
Amusing, but it shows nothing.
Thor > Surfer
That’s not what this section is about (even though it’s true). I just thought it might be fun to annoy you.
Anyway, Surfer…well…his rep is a little too inflated on KMC. He’s the class of the top tier heralds, along with guys like Thor. But like anyone else, he has bad showings. Here’s one (of many): http://photobucket.com/albums/b305/...1988_016_13.jpg http://photobucket.com/albums/b305/...1988_016_14.jpg
…a bright light to disperse a shield and blind someone causes him to need to recover. A low showing? Absolutely. Rare? Not as much as you’d think. I’ll try to dig up more, but anyone who reads enough Silver Surfer knows that he has some awesomely high showings as well as horrible ones.
Keep that in mind as you read what goober does with Surfer…basically turning him into Galactus.
Side thought: all those scans of Surfer moving quickly or making shields (none of which trump anything my team could do in their suits, actually)...anyway, those scans really mean nothing. Speed isn't the issue here, since he has nowhere to go. As stated before, the dome we're in will ensure that the blast from my Galactus-buster will envelope the entire area.
Spying
The scans goober posted do indeed show Surfer detecting someone who is spying on him. This is not the issue.
I bought spying. Thus, I can spy. If me creating a portal to spy means that my opponents can look back, even via cosmic senses, then I in effect bought spying for every opponent I have. Clearly, this isn’t the case.
If it helps, think of those cliché horror films where there’s a witch staring into a cauldron spying on someone, but they can’t see or detect her back. Same idea.
In other words, nobody can loophole their way into spying on me without having paid for it. This aspect of the tourney doesn’t apply to normal comic-book senses and feats, in the same way that the “indestructible” dome surrounding us can’t be harmed by comic-book indestructible materials.
Though I’m not quite sure what goober actually did when he “sensed” me that would make any difference. Let’s say it works and he detects me. I will see them first before they do anything about it, so I’ll still know who I’m facing (they won’t), and my plan never really changed (though I made the psi-blockers as an afterthought). But it’s the principle of it that bothers me more than the actual execution of it.
Short post this time. Just tying up loose ends from post 2.
Characterizations
First, my characters just met and are about to fight. There’s not really time to establish character history and start the little non-trusting soap opera you want to happen.
Second, Reed isn’t giving his ideas to Lex. He’s giving them to The Doctor to build. And vice-versa with Lex. I doubt either thinks the other can reverse-engineer any of it. I mean, you and I saw the Galactus-gun in action and what it looks like. Could you start to build it?
Third, if we’re looking through our spying portal at millions of Adaptoid’s (or at least a failed attempt at making them) it’s very much in character for them to go to such measures.
But this is all dealt with far easier. Behold…
Let me counter Goober’s rule with another one:
That’s all the justification you need. They can and have done everything I’m doing (unlike your strategy) and their lives and loved ones (and fondest wishes) are on the line.
And if we’re REALLY arguing this nonsense, I’d point out that you have comic-dom’s most famous pacifist on your squad.
The Bigger Picture
Is my plan in doubt? No. That should tell you something.
Whether or not it would go exactly as scripted is up to the judges to decide. But the fact is, my strategy is sitting on a solid foundation of established powers. Doctor can make things at a whim with his matter manip. Reed and Lex invent badass stuff. Thor’s a friggin’ stud. Add them together.
And goober’s is speculating wildly. Maybe it would work, maybe it wouldn’t. Either way, I win, but I don’t think the plan works in the first place, and hopefully I’ve outlined why that is sufficiently well.
Digi you seem to be forgetting that there’s going to be a billion more adaptoid created every 20 seconds if necessary. They can move forward in a wave absorbing and getting destroyed but eventually they’ll reach your big gun and smash the thing to bits.
Remember I said EVERY combination of templates that are available? That means all that’s necessary is the adaptoids using the powers of Hank Pym and Captain America and there’ll be more than enough shield to block the blast. And you seem to be forgetting that the thing that makes Cap’s shield so special is it’s ability to absorb kinetic energy, so the force won’t be destroying most of my army.
And I have no doubt that if you had the Infinity Gauntlet you’d transmute the shields, you’d have to because there’s no way you could blast through them all .
Did you somehow set up the gun INSIDE the indestructible dome? I don’t have to actually teleport behind you guys, we can teleport directly above the gun(between the “start” of the beam and the wall) to destroy your little toy.
So Thor(who’s in no way a speedster) is somehow manage to intercept the blast of billions of Surfer’s from multiple angles without a single blast getting though to your gun?
You seem to be under the impression that just because it’s name is electronic converter that it’s limited to electromagnetic energy, and I don’t think that’s the case. I myself interpreted it to just be the name of a device that’s able to reflect any kind of energy back at whoever’s throwing it, which is what I intended to build.
So you’re honestly trying to say that between the transmutation powers and knowledge of the Super Adaptoid himself, the Cosmic Awareness and transmutation powers of the Silver Surfer, and the technical knowledge of Reed Richards, Hank Pym, and the Fixer that the Silver Adaptoid won’t be able to figure out how to create the body of an adaptiod?
I like the way you keep completely ignoring the fact that during the creation process I’ll have the tech savvy of Hank Pym, the Fixer, and Reed Richards at my disposal. It doesn’t matter whether or not Surfer knows how to program a sentient personality because all three of them DO.
Sure it does, it shows that Surfer can mess with computer programming ect. with the Power Cosmic whether he has the technical skills himself or not. But luckily enough for me I have the tech skills of Reed, Hank, and Fixer working right along with that(as well as the ability to summon the template of Machine Man at will) so there’s no doubt that programming the adaptoids will be child’s play.
Again, I’ll be using the Nega Bands to revitalize myself so your scan is COMPLETELY irrelevant…
No I’m not. My plan is only possible because of the COMBINED abilities of the Surfer and Super Adaptoid, I’m the first to admit that there’s no way he’d be able to pull this off on his own.
Again I’m not looking back in any way shape or form, you changed my enviorment when you introduced a spy portal the same way you would if you altered the color of the sky. Super Adaptoid is the type to hate distractions and snoopers so if he sensed something he’d do something about it. If someone buys BFR as an option it doesn’t guarantee that it’ll be effective because the other guys can still teleport back(whether they bought BFR themselves or not) so I fail to see what’s wrong about countering your spying if it’s obvious to my character, especially when it can be dealt with by something as simple as invisibility.
But this isn’t something I’m trying to push all that hard because I can understand where you’re coming from too. I’m more than willing to wait and let Evangel rule on it, because it IS one of the few things I didn’t get cleared with her first. So if it turns out I was wrong about it being viable then my bad.
Sure there is...
Depends, do I have the IQ of Reed Richards or Lex Luthor? Because I know for a fact that I can come up with scans of Reed analysing some of Doom's devices with a casual glace(and vice versa) and I'm pretty sure that I could find scans of Lex doing the same. It's one of the perks of having super human level intelligence.
It WOULD justify it, except for one small part of the rule I already listed…
Wrong. I have the body and powers of one of comic-dom’s most famous pacifist, but his pacifistic mind has been replaced with the mind of an evil inhuman android with goals of world domination.
Sure it is. Would Lex and Reed trust each other enough to let each other in on their inventions….no because despite their motivation in the match they’re still going to act in character(just as the rule says) and they’re not the type to trust each other. NO ONE on your team is really the type to trust Lex(except maybe the Doctor, whom I’m not that familiar with) and because of that you’re whole plan’s going to fall apart before it gets started. Reed and Thor have to much history with Doctor Doom to fully embrace someone just like him.
And you may have covered this point already(sorry if I overlooked it but I was wondering if there’s a scan to suggest that the blast from your big gun has the precision to take down my team without destroying the Earth?
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Last edited by darthgoober on Mar 18th, 2008 at 04:15 AM
So now we're wading into the Galactus-busting gun and assuming you'll overtake me at some point?
Most of your team would be a blood stain on the far side of the dome as soon as we activated it.
You're still not fathoming that the entire dome in engulfed in energy. You're not making an air-tight shield-barrier, and if you use Hank's powers to grow the shield, you'd grow too. Basically you'd have to swallow a Big Bang in order to survive.
...which can be rebuilt instantly. The Doctor has 2 jobs. Energy-converting barrier around the team (see writeup for details), and maintain the gun. You'd have to take my team out in order for this to work.
...which can be moved with a thought telekinetically, not to mention (again) that the energy would simply be engulfing the dome regardless of where you are.
And it's still just using Magneto's power against him. It's of a different energy type, and also <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< what I'm doing. Until something else comes to light, we'll talk. As it is, that thing is useless.
No, that sounds quite reasonable. But the number there is "1" ...my beef is with this 6 billion nonsense, which would take such blinding speeds, that when you're doing something that has little or no proof (see past posts for reasons why his justifications fall short) you might (might) manage it once or twice.
Also, remember that Surfer's power is finite, limited. creation of these things, in such large quantities, would drain him utterly. And no amount of "reprogramming (see also: zapping with power cosmic and hope for the best) will convince me otherwise. Even in the best of all possible worlds, you wouldn't get to a dozen.
You also mentioned creating them during the battle, which is even more laughable.
Mind showing us something Adaptoid has done with the bands? Because thus far, you've used that Mar-Vell scan about 3 times, and it does a great job of showing us what Mar-Vell can do, but not your team. Give him Mjolnir, and would he use it as well as Thor? Hell no. Same with this.
Actually, this begs the question of what Adaptoid would actually be like trying to wield multiple powers in such rapid succession, and without time to familiarize himself with any of it before getting blasted with a Galastus-busting gun. He's never done it before, so my guess is he wouldn't be terribly smooth about it. Or quick enough to do most of what you're planning.
That's it? Hell, Cap was still alive after that blast....and everyone else too. Thor just looked pissed, not particularly harmed. But maybe it was that shield of Cap's, protecting the whole team from a clearly superior energy blast...
Anyway, if I have time tomorrow, I'll dispel a few myths about Thor and justify this statement a little more. For now, though, Thor v. Surfer isn't the issue. My team vs. yours is. And I win that one hands down.
Spying & Characters
I'll deal with both of these at once because neither is terribly important.
As for spying, you heard my justification. Goober is using my spying to spy on me via senses...this shouldn't be allowed. It has nothing to do with character powers but the tourney rules themselves, and the real world fact that goober didn't buy spying but is doing it anyway. As it is, my plan stays the same regardless, and this really doesn't affect the match except to possibly set a precedent for future matches. As such, I'll be asking Evangel for a ruling, but will not debate it further in this match since it doesn't have a direct bearing on the outcome.
And if he thinks I'll be, I dunno, holding back because of some perceived lack of trust, it's just stupid.
Does Tony fear letting Doom see his armor? Does Reed fear Magneto seeing his electric converter? Does Lex fear anyone seeing his battle suit? For goober's plan to have any merit, Lex Luthor, for example, would have to decide that it's more important to keep an invention from Reed, than to wear armor which will likely keep him alive in a battle of veritable gods.
They aren't sharing schematics. Just "seeing" something on the outside isn't enough for anyone, even geniuses.
Oh, and this: They're fighting for their loved ones, and for their fondest wishes. And goober wants you to believe that they won't do what they're capable of. "Let's hold back because it's a convenient argument for goober." Doesn't work like that. He's attacking the source because the plan itself is >> his. Nothing more.
Oh, and as for in-character, even if Adaptoid (the amalgam's mind) has knowledge of Surfer's powers, his lack of experience with them will make all of goober's plan even MORE unlikely.
It’s a definite possibility given the array of powers at my disposal. You have to remember that if the several million or so copies of Thor's hammer are even a 10th as powerful as the real thing, that’ll still be more than enough to absorb all the blast. 1 hammer is sufficient to absorb a blast capable of destroying a fifth of the universe so if the replicas are 10th as powerful a million(just one million mind you) of the original then their combined absorption would be sufficient to absorb a blast capable of destroying the entire universe 20,000 times over(seriously, do the math). And that’s just one million hammers, keep in mind I actually have quite a few more at my disposal.
As I’ve already explained there won’t be anywhere near that much energy present because of all the absorbing going on,
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Do you think that the Doctor can somehow do those two jobs while he’s being assaulted? I have more than enough adaptoids to take out the gun, the Doctor, and the rest of your team simultaneously.
Wait a second let me get this strait, your going to fill the entire dome with energy while moving the gun around, and you’re going to have Thor do an area wide absorption field around the gun to protect it from incoming energy attacks…. how the Hell is that going to work? If the gun is shooting from INSIDE the energy soak(which it would have to be to protect it from incoming energy attacks) then it would mean that Thor absorbs the energy wouldn’t it?
Meh, doesn’t matter because as I already pointed out the entirety of the blast will be absorbed by the hammers of my Adaptoid’s or Thor himself.
I START with 1 remember? After the first one’s built it’s easy enough to replicate.
His energy is easily replenished with the energy of the Nega Bands,
You also mentioned creating them during the battle, which is even more laughable.[/B][/QUOTE]
It wouldn’t be any problem because I assigned a billion to continue making adaptoids rather than fight.
He doesn’t have to use them as well he just has to know their capabilities, and he does. Here we see Adaptoid using Mar-Vell’s powers…
…Adaptoid gains an instinctive knowledge of ALL the powers of characters he copies. He may not use them as effectively in battle, but he knows what they are and how to use them.
I fail to see what adaptoid lacking “fighting spirit” has to do with ANYTHING.
…
He doesn’t have to familiarize himself because communicating info telepathically was an accounted for part of the creation process…
And since my character has complete knowledge of Surfer’s powers…
It’s a simple matter to send knowledge of how best to use his powers if it WAS an issue(and it‘s not).
I agree with everything there except the part that labels noticing a blatant change in the environment as “counter-spying”. But again just because you buy an ability doesn’t mean that it should be a sure thing. We’re allowed to respond to every other purchased ability(such as BFR, Mind Control, etc) so I don’t see why Spying should be any different in a case like this where I’d notice your portal whether I was looking for it or not.
But like I said I KINDA understand where you're coming from, so I'm content to let Evangel rule on it since I didn't clear it with her first
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Last edited by darthgoober on Mar 18th, 2008 at 06:49 AM
…Rival genius’s hate sharing ANY information with each other, especially when they’re on opposing sides of the law.
No I’m attacking the plan because of a specific rule made by the tourney host that you want everyone to forget about…
But even without that rule I’m in the clear because I’ve already shown why I have nothing to worry about.
One problem, the Silver Adaptoid’s Power Cosmic doesn’t come from power copying, it comes from the amalgam…
No matter what the Adaptoids “normal” process for acquiring powers is, he knows how to do everything Surfer’s ever done instantly through the power of the Amalgam. And since he’s using telepathy to pass along that knowledge, every new adaptoid will be able to use them the just as well also.
And I can’t help but notice that you never answered this…
Well both of you are very methodical with your scanning and replying, I'll definitely give you that. Answer me this if you can; given that both write-ups are rather grandiose, let's for the sake of argument, disregard the write-ups for a moment. Simply a straight power to power match up.
If this battle was reduced to Darthgoober's team against Digimark007's team, who would win if nothing significant is done with the 15 minute prep for either side? Both sides just fighting head to head.
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Forever Young...
Last edited by Evangel94 on Mar 18th, 2008 at 07:05 AM
In that case my guy DEFIANTLY wins. As I explained before, the number of templates Super Adaptoid can mimic is limited by his bodies ability to store/channel energy. But since he's now in the body of the Silver Surfer and Surfer's body is MADE to absorb and channel unreal amounts of energy he'll be able to use way more templates simultaneously than Super Adaptoid is normally capable of...
With that kind of storage capacity, I'll have no problem using several templates at the same time if I so feel like it and then I just kick his team all over the battlefield. For instance, I could just access the powers of the Vision, Captain America, and Mar-Vell and utterly waylay him.
Think about it, the Vision's strength and durability increase by thousands of times via manipulation of his density(an obvious multiplication rather than addition) so when it's used on the Surfer's body which has a MUCH higher base strength and durability than Visions I'll be all but unbeatable for even someone with Thor's level of strength. With the combined fighting skills of Mar-Vell and Captain America(as well as having the wonder that is Cap's shield as a weapon) and the speed of the Silver Surfer I can take out most of Digi's team before they even register my presence.
I can take out Reed and Lex before they have time to process a complete thought and then throw the Doctor and Thor off balance with an energy blast capable of creating a black hole...
With them off balance and confused, it'll be no problem for me to take them out quickly via shield decapitation. And that's if I don't copy the Doctor's powers first, which would screw him and Thor even more.
BTW are you going to rule on the spying issue or just leave it for the judges to decide ?
Unfortunately, I'm not good at summarizing(which is why my post are so long winded), but here are the parts of each of our post pertaining to the confusion...
Since I’m currently unable to sleep anyway, I figured I’d cover the outcome of a worst case scenario for my guy. This scenario is of course that my prep was way off and I’d only end up with a couple of adaptoids fighting with me.
Well in that case I’d just be a little more aggressive in the destruction of Digi’s team. With no(or few) adaptoid’s to fight with me it’s a simply matter of teleporting and having one of them attack the Doctor(who’s multitasking as it is I’d like to point out) while I attack Thor with the powers of Thor himself(who I already have a template for), Mar-Vell, and Captain America(as well as the Silver Surfer himself)and keep him from absorbing attacks on Digi’s big gun by any remaining adaptoid’s(who‘ll take it out with a single blast). Lex’s Super suits would easy fall to someone with the powers of the Silver Surfer, who could render the suites primary systems useless with a small application of the Power Cosmic… http://img525.imageshack.us/img525/...98700521ts3.jpg
Which leaves Thor and the Doctor outnumbered. Since Thor’ll be fighting the true Silver Adaptoid(who’s body can access more templates than the new adaptoids) he’s going down within mere moments. Not only am I just as strong as he(since I’m using my Thor template), I’m also MUCH faster since I have either the speed of the Silver Surfer or the COMBINED speed of Captain America, Mar-Vell, and Thor himself, whichever is better. Defensively I’m fighting with the combined skills of Thor, Captain America, and Mar-Vell, and I have the added bonuses of having Cap’s shield and Mar-Vell’s Cosmic Awareness to use during battle. All that adds up to Thor having virtually NO chance.
The 3 or 4 Adaptoids other than myself should have no problem taking the Doctor down since they began their assault while he was multitasking at the beginning of the match. Even if they can’t take him down for some reason(which I find hard to believe since one of their first moves is going to be copying his powers) all they have to do is hold him off until the Silver Adaptoid finishes off Thor(and as we know, that won’t take very long).
And now a quick review of things that Digi wants everyone to forget about, just to keep them fresh in everyone’s mind.
1. Adaptoid creation
A. Surfer can transmute complex devices like the Super Adapoids body in seconds and with ease…
E. If Surfer’s powers WERE based upon his own personal knowledge, the Silver Adaptoid HAS the technological knowledge of the Super Adaptoid himself, Reed Richards, Hank Pym, and the Fixer already and can access the tech skills of Machinesmith(one of the worlds foremost experts on things like robots and androids) in seconds if necessary.
2. Digi’s team and strategy
A. Thor, Reed Richards, and the Doctor WILL know about the villain that is Lex Luthor
B. There are specific rules in place concerning the behavior of our characters
C. Since it’s out of character for them to do so, Digi’s team won’t trust each other enough to actually go through with his prep. Reed’s not going to risk letting Lex Luthor know anything about his super gun and Lex won’t want Reed knowing anything about his super suits.
D. Since it’s out of character for the situation, Reed Richards wouldn’t be building his super gun anyway. Reed’s a consummate perfectionist and safety freak and by the time he finished analyzing the situation decided to go through with building the gun the match will have already started.
E. I’ve yet to see a single scan that suggest that the super gun can be “aimed” at my team without destroying the Earth as well. After all, since we’re surrounded by an indestructible force field if the blast will be directed downward and destroy the entire planet, then there’s no way it would be “In character” for Reed to want to use the thing.
F. If for some reason everything worked out like Digi said and he built and used the gun. I have so many ways of countering it’s not even funny. My “Thor Adaptoids” alone can handle the blast from the thing 20,000 times over.
Digi is quite simply and out manned and out gunned with NO real chance at victory against this kind of opposition.
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Mar 17th, 2008 10:29 PM
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