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If He Be Worthy - ID VS BEATBOKS
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Damborgson
King of the Damboys

Gender: Male
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If He Be Worthy - ID VS BEATBOKS

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And Lo'! There began a battle unlike any other!

Welcome to the first match of the quarter finals.

3 Post Limit

OP

Rebuttal

Ending Post

-----------

Judges

Rage.Of.Olympus

Philosophia

Smurph

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Location:

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DEADLINE: NEXT SATURDAY 03/24/2018


__________________

-Abhi Killer-

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Old Post Mar 18th, 2018 04:51 AM
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Damborgson
King of the Damboys

Gender: Male
Location:

quote:

"Id" wrote on
Shaman X-Man + Mjolnir (Aka Smash Bro)


Why X-Man + Mjolnir
So looking at this as a game of exploitation, as to see who can squeeze the most value from Mjolnir and have the most efficient combo. At plain sight X-Man's only tool to unlock the hammers secrets and powers would be through "psychometry" .....HOWEVER! things have changed. With the revelation that Mjolnir is indeed sentient changes EVERYTHING including how this game can be played. Which I think is fucking great. Think about it, Nate Grey possibly thee most powerful Telepathic character in the Herald Tier list deemed worthy of Mjolnir which is now considered sentient or having a mind of its own...go up against other characters with sentient hammers.... pure shenanigans!

This is not preptime. Nate can unlock the secrets of Mjolnir and learn how to wield it as good as Thor or Jane just by holding hammer. Through the use of a combination of Psychometry and Telepathy Nate going to learn everything there is to learn about Mjolnir, and becuse Nate is such a powerful Telepath it is done instantly.

The following scans prove Mjolnir is sentient and has a mind of his own.
https://i.imgur.com/CB1XiMj.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/MqGPkTk.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/gy7NLXK.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/u4xn57b.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/vCtwSGP.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/Nz7Rg8b.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/B43MUNr.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/NSmXWGT.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/QBEZYvH.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/8kfbl2T.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/UuxqX6B.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/BX9B50M.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/5lFlcVi.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/6WrxpiC.jpg

The following scans prove Nate can apply Psychometry on inamite objects and living entites.
https://imgur.com/a/NESBb
https://imgur.com/a/kX7Jk
https://imgur.com/a/cDGQ1
https://imgur.com/a/aKtnE


Nate has over 300 diffrent ways to gain wisdom.
https://imgur.com/a/QIZs5

Nate can flash the memory to instantly learn how to wield weapons.
https://imgur.com/a/FyxrO

Though contact Nate gets up to speed on everything. Oh snaps!
https://imgur.com/a/AUDS0
https://imgur.com/a/driZ0

The Plan (Smash Time)
Now that I have established I can wield Mjolnir as good as Thor and Jane, it goes without saying I should be able to accesses the enitre history of Mjolnir feats at my finger tips.

Nate will gear up with the same golden Psi Amor he gave Hulk which allowed Hulk to beat back Thanos. Said armor will greatly amplify my physical prowess.
https://imgur.com/a/ZXGJ0
https://imgur.com/a/C61kY
https://imgur.com/a/nqAkL

My psionic blasts are going to be augmented thanks to the generous 100x multiplier Mjolnir has gifted me.
https://imgur.com/a/CKHN3

As point of refrence. Nate was about to casually wipe out asia uncosiously half a world away. Now imagine same casual blast directed at Hellstorm 100x over.
https://imgur.com/a/DCGNC
https://imgur.com/a/2ay5F

With a combination of Future Sight and Telepathy there is nowhere Hellstorm can hide.
https://imgur.com/a/JH7ZF
https://imgur.com/a/JL1xD


Disarming Hellstorm
This is my surprise gift for Beats. When I find Hellsotrm I am going to disarm him of Mjolnir. To both Hellsotrm and his Mjolnir they will remember the time when Hellstorm was unworthy PSYCHOSOMATICALLY. His Mjolnir will reject him instantly.
https://imgur.com/a/oQZyO

Surprise! With his Mjolnir disabled via unworthiness I will send it away and pound Hellstorm until there is nothing left.


__________________

-Abhi Killer-

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Old Post Mar 18th, 2018 04:52 AM
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Damborgson
King of the Damboys

Gender: Male
Location:

quote:

beatboks wrote on
Daimon Hellstrom "Son of Satan" Intro

As Daimon isn't all that well known I should probably start with a bit of an intro to him.

Strength

https://static.comicvine.com/upload...+of+100+men.jpg

Base for Daimon has the strength of 100 men. Lets say your average man is 150kg strength (fairly reasonable I'd think since the world record for weight lifting is 264kg) this makes him about a 15 metric tonner (at BASE)

Since when his dark soul is released he is further enhanced by 10

https://static.comicvine.com/upload...he+draws+on.jpg

https://static.comicvine.com/upload...th+ten+fold.jpg

Yes that's right like Hulk, Daimon gets stronger when angry and his darksoul comes to the fore. now this of course only JUST brings him to the very bottom end of class 100. He is after all only a low herald level character.

It's not of major importance because honestly Daimon isn't a brawler but should this fight come to the physical he is more than capable of mixing it up that way.

durability

Blunt force

https://static.comicvine.com/upload...br /> phere.jpg

His darksoul can absorb the impact of a fall from thousands of feet.

Explosions

https://static.comicvine.com/upload...n%2B%281%29.jpg

https://static.comicvine.com/upload...n%2B%282%29.jpg

Energy in general (far more important when facing someone like Nate Grey)

https://static.comicvine.com/upload...+this+power.jpg

https://static.comicvine.com/upload...his+power+2.jpg

Even without Mjilnor he can eat up energy like a sponge. Adding Mjilnor makes energy attacks a complete non event to me.

Speed

https://static.comicvine.com/upload...0+1+2+speed.jpg

Notice how in the first panel the biker thug's wrist shows the lines you would see when pulling the trigger finger and yet Hellstrom from a dozen or so feet away threw his trident and struck him before he had finished doing so. He's no Flash but certainly has sonic level reflexes.

soul Fire

https://static.comicvine.com/upload...of+soulfire.jpg

Can harm creatures of fire and destabilize realms

https://static.comicvine.com/upload...of+soulfire.jpg

can melt steel binds without harming the hands they are around.

https://static.comicvine.com/upload...Bfire%2Baoe.jpg

https://static.comicvine.com/upload...l%2B%282%29.jpg

is a great AOE attack

Force fields

https://static.comicvine.com/upload...B%2B%281%29.jpg

he can throw basic ones up pretty quick. these of couse wont stand long against the level of attacks in this tourney. But he is with enough time capable of creating shields that will.

https://static.comicvine.com/upload...ps+dormammu.jpg

A force field that could contain the Hood who was at the time possessed by Dormammu. this required Dr Strange to distract the Hood long enough for Daimon to create it.

https://static.comicvine.com/upload...t%2B%284%29.jpg

and one that can contain Blackheart. in this case after the Fantastic four created the distraction.

healing power

https://static.comicvine.com/upload...+from+death.jpg

literally brought Profeet back from the dead without even knowing he had the power to do so just subconsciously

https://static.comicvine.com/upload...aling+touch.jpg

heals with a touch. the potential is there to heal his own injuries if required. He's never done that but then never had the injuries that would require it either.

Darksoul protects from mental attacks

https://static.comicvine.com/upload...+against+tp.jpg

when his darksoul rises (his full demon self) if protects him from mental attacks Several more instances of this).

other powers
he has several other abilities. Spells that allow him to

- shrink things
https://static.comicvine.com/upload...ink+spell+2.jpg

the Monster in his hand was a few panels earlier towering over the NY skyline.

- alter time and time travel (obviously not important in a tourney)

https://static.comicvine.com/upload...hanged+time.jpg

https://static.comicvine.com/upload...time+travel.jpg

create shadow duplicates.

https://static.comicvine.com/upload...om_vol_2_41.jpg

control the elements (earth, wind, fire, LIGHTNING)

https://static.comicvine.com/upload...s+the+earth.jpg

https://static.comicvine.com/upload...s+lightning.jpg

THIS is why Daimon get's the Thunder god status denied most.

quote:

beatboks wrote on
I was going to go load scan after scan showing how Daimon benefits from Mjilnor.

Instead (to get things moving along) I'll just brief over it and get on to the opening of battle.

Boons from Mjilnor

that others don't recieve.

1. As shown in part 1 and as stated by our host in the tourney sign up thread Daimon get's full Thunder God status.

2. Mjilnor has been shown more than once able to perform magic. Daimon unlike all in the tourney save Loki knows magic. This allows him (and Loki) to use this part of Mjilnor's capability with far greater skill. The Spells that Daimon has been shown to use will have much greater power behind them.

3. Mjilnor enhances Thor's resistance to mental attacks. It has allowed him to resist Horus (skyfather), Moondragon, and Emma Frost ) http://i.imgur.com/VEauUPH.jpg_

4. Daimon has vast experience wielding a talisman of power like Mjilnor. His own trident has many of the same properties. As such wielding his version of Mjilnor will be second nature. He will be more adept and quicker in it's esoteric uses than any other tourney combatant (that includes Loki).

that all get

5.Due to the energy that Mjilnor contains basic simple energy things that Daimon does will have more power behind them. Those force fields for example that he throws up as fast as a snap of his fingers. This of course applies to all in the Tourney as just about everyone has experience in energy manipulation

Battle opening Salvo

Daimon throws up one of his quick shields powered by Mjilnor.

He then shrinks Nate down to the size of his finger. This makes anything Nate can do of much less consequence. I already Showed Damion shrinking but Thor has used Mjilnor to do the same to Hyperion.

https://static.comicvine.com/upload...yperion.jpg.jpg

this is a perfect example of how Daimon has actual experience doing the things Mjilnor is capable of and would be better adept than most at using these abilities. Not only was Hyperion shrunk but contained in a force field he couldn't escape (as will Nate Grey be).

this alone would count as incapacitation and a win but I will not rest on my laurels

Daikmon creates hundreds of shadow duplicates to both protect him and ready to attack should Nate free himself from the shield. He then begins the spell needed to make the much stronger force field that contained the Dormammu possessed Hood and Black heart.

He also uses his dimensional travel to port around the battlefield randomly as further protection from my adversaries attacks should he miraculously free himself from his cage.

All while using my Thundergod status to fill the force field with lightning and a raging storm (with the power of a world wide storm)

http://i.imgur.com/oUPMW0v.jpg

as well as soulfire

https://static.comicvine.com/upload...Bfire%2Baoe.jpg

seering attacks that due to my adversaries reduced size are of vastly more "comparative" force than if he was full size. every attack doing 100's of times the damage it would to a full size Nate. At Nate's current size the force of his TK is comparatively vastly less. He is less able to deal wit these attacks and the nature of my battle means he has zero chance of even mounting an attack before he has been shrunk and imprisoned.


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Old Post Mar 18th, 2018 04:54 AM
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beatboks
ready for the loony bin

Gender: Male
Location: Australia

Post II

Countering Swiss cheese argument

Id’s argument is so full of wholes I don’t really know where to begin.

“Sentient Mjilnor”

In Id’s own scans we see the “lord high librarian” (the guy MOST in the know, apparently) tells Jane that maybe once, EONS ago it was alive. This sort of contradicts the whole idea of a sentient hammer now.

Let’s let that slide and assume for a moment that the Uru mallet actually is alive.
1. What evidence do we have it is an intelligent sentience that Nate could use ???
2. better yet what feats do we have for this “sentience” using the power of Mjilnor???

Id would like us to believe that his Psychometry somehow unlocks the knowledge to bring every big feat of Mjilnor to the table but even IF there is a sentience within the hammer we have no evidence that it knows how to wield the esoteric capabilities of Mjilnor.

Those were done by the conscious minds of the various wielders of Mjilnor (we've seen their thought panels doing it for decades), each of which used the mighty hammer very differently.

The best he can claim is that he knows how to do what the “living storm” did in it’s fight with Odin in his scans. I fight it LOST.

No limits fallacy Psychometry
That brings us to whole number 2 in his Psychometry scans.
1. The first link is broken I assume (all I saw was some girl doing her make up in a car window).
2. The second doesn’t show anything of note.
3. The third shows that Nate quite clearly DOESN’T get very detailed information. He saw the last couple of days (in what appeared to be minutes) and still was making suppositions as to what those images meant. “the boy must be a mutant” “A PSI like me” these aren’t even DEFINITE learnings.
4. His alleged “instant knowledge” scan was of a hand gun. Seriously are we truly being expected to believe that learning how to use a hand gun that has a trigger and MAYBE a safety switch is the same as being able use the thousands of different applications Mjilnor has been used for over almost 6 decades of print???

Poor start to battle

Id has admitted that he has no prep, that this ALL he has said transpires ON THE BATTLEFIELD during the battle. He didn’t even think to put up a shield or do anything to protect himself WHILE he used his Psychometry to know Mjilnor thoroughly just got straight to it.

So by the time he has some LIMITED knowledge on how to use Mjilnor’s more esoteric abilities I’ve already shrunk him, encased him in a force field (one that is 100 times stronger than the ones Daimon throws up at the snap of his fingers according to Id’s own scans), and hit with BOTH a world force storm and an AOE soul fire attack. Said Soulfire attack ALSO by Id’s own evidence is 100x more powerful than Daimon normally does.

I mean seriously people I already shown how quickly Daimon can act. Not to mention he shrunk that monster so quickly those around him had to ask what had happened, and that was WITHOUT Mjilnor enhancing his energy by 100 times. Not putting up some type of defence before wasting time using Psychometry was a major gaff. One that ensures you lost before you were ever able to try and make me unworthy with your psionic attack.

Complete Wasted write up to this point

It then becomes obvious that Id knows full well his “sentient Mjilnor” and “Psychometry” wont work because he does absolutely NOTHING with it. After going to the trouble of using the sentience in Mjilnor to learn all about it what exactly does Id Do with what he has learned?? He makes a psionic attack just Like Nate has always done. He goes to all the trouble of loading the scans to show something that he then completely fails to employ. Instead all we get is Nate Grey same old same old with energy amped by a factor of 100.

Worthiness of Mjilnor

If your going to claim your going to make Daimon remember a time he was unworthy, then the burden falls on you to present an example of this.
Worthiness of Mjilnor is all about honor. Rage and anger don’t make one unworthy, if they did that Warriors madness Thor wouldn’t be able to wield Mjilnor now would he. Honor is about knowing and doing what is morally right, and in this Daimon is always worthy.

https://static.comicvine.com/upload...05+-+page+7.jpg
https://static.comicvine.com/upload...5+-+page+12.jpg
https://static.comicvine.com/upload...5+-+page+13.jpg
Here in Defenders 105 we see Daimon at an all time low. He returned to hell with his father issues ago (months on 616 Earth) to save the defenders from his father. He was tormented and they tried to break him. But despite months of torment in hell STILL he chose the to do what was morally right. He chose to act with honour.

Then in a Hellstrom v1 story ark Daimon sets out to return escaped souls to hell. He does so for 2 but judges three as undeserving of their fate and deserving of mercy

https://static.comicvine.com/upload...8+-+page+17.jpg

so he chooses to protect them and plead their case with the tetragrammation
https://static.comicvine.com/upload...39+-+page+4.jpg

he battles the hordes of hell all through purgatory to reach the Tetragramation
https://static.comicvine.com/upload...39+-+page+9.jpg
https://static.comicvine.com/upload...9+-+page+14.jpg

to the point where he unleashed his full dark soul (full demon self) for the very first time.
https://static.comicvine.com/upload...9+-+page+18.jpg
https://static.comicvine.com/upload...9+-+page+19.jpg

and still with his full demon soul unleashed he fought for what was morally right, what was honorable. Against the very supreme power itself.
https://static.comicvine.com/upload...0+-+page+17.jpg
https://static.comicvine.com/upload...0+-+page+19.jpg
https://static.comicvine.com/upload...0+-+page+20.jpg
https://static.comicvine.com/upload...0+-+page+23.jpg

Remember this is the Mjilnor of which Hellstrom is worthy of, so just as warrior madness doesn’t make Thor unworthy so will it be for Dark Soul Daimon.

The exclusions

Judges the fact is even if Id could find scans showing Daimon in a state unworthy before, they are of little to no value to him, for two reason.
1. He has to give proof that this type of attack is going to even affect the SON of Satan. Remember to achieve this he has to

A) Get through the shield I erected around him at the onset of battle when I shrunk him
B) Get past the psionic resistance Daimon has
C) Get past the ability of Mjilnor to simply absorb energy attack (of which psionics is one) and return it a100 fold
D) do ALL this while enduring a world force storm and a soul fire attack
E)Overcome the vastly reduced power output he will have in his shrunken size.

Spiderman has the strength of a spider but what spider can lift 30 tons?? If Nate is shrunk to an inch is size from his 6 foot height this makes him 1/72 his size comparatively the power output just over 1 and 1/3 of what Nate normally dishes out. His shrunken Mjinor makes his shrunken form nary a wory since Daimon;s output is still at times 100.

2. If he is successful he ends up dealing with Daimon’s full dark soul unleashed. While not at 100 times his normal power output it’s still a vast amp over what he would be facing in a standard Daimon and more than enough to demolish shrunken trapped Nate.

Old Post Mar 20th, 2018 02:45 PM
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"Id"
The Man of Tomorrow

Gender: Unspecified
Location: Diablo Corps

Recap: The End is Near
Just to reiterate. I am taking advantage of my psionic powers to establish a link between Nate and Mjolnir, and thus squeeze out all the knowledge & power the mallet can offer Nate. Given that it is now confirmed Mjolnir has an sentient mind of his own, and Nate's telepathy are vast....like cosmically vast. This should not be a problem at all and would link up the moment Mjolnir is held....meaning instantly.

The moment the bell rings, I create a psionic armor that was potent enough to fight Hulk and beat back Thanos. And charged in the direction of Hellstorm. Again exploiting the fact Mjolnir has a sentient mind, I pull a feat from the pages of Dark X-Men, and disarm Hellstorm by making them both remember the time they where unworthy "Psychosomatically". Thus sending his Mjolnir away, and follow up with a savage beating.

With Hellstorm rendered unworthy. It is going to be hard for Beats to argue against the fact that the gap in physical strength is to wide for him to reach. On top of my energy attacks benefiting of supercharge thanks to Mjolnir generous 100x implication.
The expectation I am setting up for the end of this match, is is the horrific violation taking place in the form Daimon in seared pieces flesh bludgeoned to death at the hands of my Smash Bro.

So lets get on with this circus. Same old debate style. Deny my prep works, glorify your own, and contradict yourself along the way. Pure beauty.

Why the Combo Works: X-Man + Mjolnir
This combo works specifically well in this tournament due to the key plot revelation in the recent Thor book. Which is that the mallet is sentient, and is used to explain why Mjolnir is no longer following the commands issued by Odin, or Thor. As well as acting on its own even when Jane is in possession of it, to the point that it SPEAKS to Jane.
This is fantastic in this tournament setting because it creates a point for telepaths such as X-Man to exploit. Nate can do what he does best when he mind links onto anyone. Read minds and extract information. Psychometry simply serves to facilitate the hole processes due Mjolnir also being an item.
Ill back it up.
Mjonir Speaks to Jane farther reinforcing it is alive.
https://imgur.com/a/P1kxV
Psychometry: Contact with an object tells you its whole story, suggests if future even.
https://imgur.com/a/TZUN7
Telepathy: Nathan learns the history/life experince of Moira
https://imgur.com/a/tYk2R

The end result is simple, I can justify why I am able to use Mjolnir esoteric. Beats on the other hand gave no justification as to why Daimon can do the same.

You dont have Prep, I dont have prep, No One has prep
I love these jabs. Same debate style everyone uses. Hur Hur "Your plan does not work, but mine does." You will see the same thing done by other contestants in in the following matches.

As explained earlier, I don't need prep-time to unlock the hammers secrets. They are open to me just by holding the hammer thanks to my vast psionic powers. The funny thing is despite being able to. I am not using far to esoteric abilities from Thor. And my plan is as simple is they come. Apply a mind whammy and smash you to bits.

However YOU dont have any prep either, and absolutely NO! justification as to why you would be able to pull of feats from Mjolnir other than simply because. Yet you want to:
Let your darkside take over
Conjuring a force field for yourself.
Shrink Nate.
Hold Nate in a force field.
Create shadow duplicates.
And than conjure a spell to create another force field.
Only to conjure another a world class storm.

All of this in the opening bell....

Rebuttals

quote:
His alleged “instant knowledge” scan was of a hand gun.

That was an exmpale of him flashing someones memory to gain knowladge. But nice dodge of him as a Shaman and how he learned decade worth of history in Dark X-Man.



quote:
Said Soulfire attack ALSO by Id’s own evidence is 100x more powerful than Daimon normally does.


Yeah your not benefiting of the 100x multiplier. Your character can pick up the Hammer...thats it. But your character does not have knowledge or history of using Mjolnir amping properties. Simply being of magical or mystical orgin does NOT justify the fact. Maybe if you had say an ability like say "Psychometry" would be different case . Burden of proof falls on you to prove how he would be able to learn or know how to use Mjolnir beyond just being able to hold it.


quote:
If your going to claim your going to make Daimon remember a time he was unworthy, then the burden falls on you to present an example of this.


Holy Shit. You are worthy by magic of this tournament. You want me to point out a time when Daimon was unworthy of being Thor or holding Mjolnir? EASY his entire run and appearances in Marvel comics. [csm]smurph[csm]


Rounding UP His Intentions
His uses of his plan are cut in half due to not justifying how he learn to use Mjolnir. On top of the fact I applied a mental whammy to render him Unworthy of Mjolnir. Leaving only Daimon to fend with his own abilities.

1 - Entrap Nate in a force field: This is useless: Nate is a teleporter able to move through realities as well as time and space.
2 - Shrink Nate: Again Useless. Nate has complete control over his body. He created a faux body for himself after reforming from having his essence broken down to sub cellular level across the Earth.
3 - Create Duplicates: The effectiveness are not shown in panel, by all means he could be dividing his strength amount his clones or they are simply not strong at all. Regardless he has forced Idaris to both merge and split them up in the arc Fearful Symmetries.
4 - AOE Attacks: Not only Nate psionically curve explosives, he would tank them just fine thanks to his psionic armor.

End result is clear. You are disarmed, and outmatched.


__________________


Old Post Mar 23rd, 2018 05:05 PM
"Id" is currently offline Click here to Send "Id" a Private Message Find more posts by "Id" Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote Quick Quote
"Id"
The Man of Tomorrow

Gender: Unspecified
Location: Diablo Corps

This is the End
First off special thanks to Host and Beats for being part of this geek tourney. And I also want to thank the judges for taking their time to read my replies.

Beats made a special focus on X-Mans ability to make a mental link with Mjolnir and how unlikely it is for Nate to pull feats from. Three short points.

  • I have read his opening post along with the others. There is no preptime for anyone. Yet my opening post seems to simplest one so far. There is nothing complicated so far. Yet Beats wants to hammer the skewed fact despite his post being much more involved.

  • The bases of this combo is relayed on the fact that Mjolnir being sentiment. Its a key plot point in the recent run of Thor. Because of the fact, drafting a potent telepath makes an obvious choice to exploit and maximize the uses of Mjolnir. Despite the fact I didn't really on heavy Thor feat. It comes to a great surprise that Beats sums up his argument with "But you cant! But you wont!". In my experience these arguments are made out of fear to minimize the impact or the effectiveness my Combo has to offer.
  • Beats arguments are contradicting in the sense that, the same reasons applied to Nate can be thrown at Hellstorm. Why does Hellstorm have all this time to muster up spells and shields? How does Hellstorm know how to use any ability of Mjolnir? At the very the introduction post serves a reason as to why Nate would be effective with Mjolnir...Beats is coming up empty-handed for his own.

Enough of that lets move on.

Disarming Beats of Mjolnir: Unworthy Hellstorm
Above all else X-Man comes in handy due to his Telepathy. I am sorry but resistance alone is not going to be enough. You need flat out Immunity, and those characters that have telepathic immunity are far and between. The threat of telepathy endangers not only Beats but everyone in the tournament. His suggestive thought makes physical trauma come into reality. And its not far fetched Thor became unworthy because of what was whispered in his ear....but Nate can make anyone become unworthy because he can implant that thought deep within the subconscious.

  • It does not help that Nate is a telepathic monster. His telepathic powers have seared through a wave of telepaths on Earth.
    https://imgur.com/a/cxGw0
  • His telepathy is potent enough to connect and reform a fractured psyche from across realities.
    https://imgur.com/a/Qb02S
  • If you think Mjolnir by adding some extra level of mental protection. Think again! Not so long ago Thor was turned into deranged rock star character complete with physical manifestation because he was convinced as so. Hail Satan Anyone?!?!
    https://imgur.com/a/FBzfB


There is no doubt in my mind Daimon would fall victim to Nate's telepathy, and hammer time by Smash Bro Nate.


(please log in to view the image)


__________________


Old Post Mar 27th, 2018 04:12 AM
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Damborgson
King of the Damboys

Gender: Male
Location:

Beatboks' Final Post thumb up

Sorry about that judges, KMC is being particularly difficult right now.

---------------------

quote:
This is not preptime. Nate can unlock the secrets of Mjolnir and learn how to wield it as good as Thor or Jane just by holding hammer. [/quote ]

[quote] The moment the bell rings, I create a psionic armor that was potent enough to fight Hulk and beat back Thanos. And charged in the direction of Hellstorm.



So which is it?? Are you armoring up and attacking me or psychometry learning about Mjilnor??

Oh that's right

quote:
Deny my prep works,


But by BZ forum rules there isnt any prep AND you stated as much in your opener. You cant get it both ways just because it suits you.

Not instant, Not everything_

quote:
Through the use of a combination of Psychometry and Telepathy Nate going to learn everything there is to learn about Mjolnir, and becuse Nate is such a powerful Telepath it is done instantly



Its just such a shame your evidence doesnt support "instantly" or "everything there is to learn". A few recent days over minutes is not everything and not instant. Even the catching up on things and gaining wisdom scans we see Nate asking "what have they done" and being surprised by being "found hiding in time". Every single scan shows something that undermines Id's whole concept of instant complete knowlwdge. Hense there is an amount of time. Might be small but exists.

Of course then we have your new scans, one_ that shows nothing but hearsay (which we never accept) and doesnt even show Nate using Psychometry. In fact saying it was just as easy to learn the highest listed price. Another showing that he gets some of Moira's memories in the time it takes to hold a conversation. Psylock even tells us Moira is beating him (talking him to death). What exactly is that supposed to prove??

That is completely excluding the fact that I've yet to see evidence that the sentience in Mjilnor even knows how its wielders have done what they have with it.

Kilawog and Kyle wield a power ring completely different to Hal so TP scanning Hal wouldnt give you the ability to use the ring how they had. THAT would be EVERYTHING there is to learn.

It doesnt work because you havent provided feats that supoort what you want to do at the level and time you say. Not one single feat of this sentience wielding the power of Mjilnor beyond propelling Jane to the library and it talking.

Great so basically Nate has learned how to run away. 🖒 Good to know.

missed some pretty big points

quote:
However YOU dont have any prep either, and absolutely NO! justification as to why you would be able to pull of feats from Mjolnir



Why exactly would I need prep?? In case you missed it EVERYTHING I did in my whole battle was something I showed Hellstrom do without Mjilnor. I never claimed any special knowledge of the Uru mallet becasue I never used or needed any. All I did was use the fact that Mjilnor amps the energy it wields by a factor of 100. I was going to post the scan you did in my second post but didn't have to.

Oh but that's right

quote:
Yeah your not benefiting of the 100x multiplier. Your character can pick up the Hammer...thats it. But your character does not have knowledge or history of using Mjolnir amping properties.



So the forum rule of basic knowledge is invalid?? Either that or Hellstrom must have lived his life in some whole with no contact with the outside world.

I mean its pretty standard knowledge that Thors hammer absorbs and redirects energy. Added to which Daimon has wielded his trident his whole life that also absorbs, amplifies and redirects certain forms of energy.

https://static.comicvine.com/upload...+his+powers.jpg

Daimon's netherainium trident drains energy from creatures of hell. Since that is what he predominantly fights he uses that quite a bit. I never really expected anyone in the tourney to have an issue using Mjilnor's energy manip since all do in some way.

quote:
Maybe if you had say an ability like say "Psychometry" would be different case



Daimon actually has several abilities like psychometry, I just didn't see the point of wasting time on them as they weren't needed. One such abilityis devination.

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads...-devination.jpg

The overlooked

quote:
Entrap Nate in a force field: This is useless: Nate is a teleporter able to move through realities as well as time and space.



Last time I checked so could Bkackheart, the Hood (on his own) and every lowly minion of Dormammu. Didnt help them.

The Crux

The sad part is if Id had simply put up his psionic shielding that he used against Hulk and Thanos out of the gate BEFORE he chose to use his psychometry his plan would have worked and it may have been a shut out.

Because he didnt it became a quick draw and those moments of hesitation on the battlefield using Psychometry to know Mjilnor cost him the win. There is simply no way he can launch his attack having learned all he claims to have learned before he has been struck by my opening salvo.

1. I've shown Hellstrom shrink a large momster so fast he was asked what happened.
2. I'veshown him act in the time a nerve impulse moves from the wrist to the finger.
3. I've shown him throw up shields in the snap of fingers time.tjete is NO DOUBT that the shields he normally does this quickly wouldnt hold agaimst the psionic armor attck shown, but in this battle I wield mjilnor and all its energy combined with the ampimg factor it would have on Daimons. Let us not forget that Thor himself has thrown up shields as quick thay could cut the power of Cyttorak off from Juggs.this is almost equal if not above Daimon's stronger shields.
4. Said shields are above anything Nate has escaped. Thay have also cintained superior dimensional travelers.

What is to be overcome

Id hasnt shown his attacks breach a shiekd of the strength a Mjilnor eielding Hellstrom can make. Hie dies he even launch this atyack to make me unworthy?

He claims he can escape because he can dimensionally travel but all thise shien held by could as well and with greater scope.

He's alledgedly easily going to deal with simultaneous world force stirms AND AOE soulfire all ehike trying to break a containment that holds more powerful beings so he can attack me with psyionic aemor form. For the record I've no doubt that by the time he is shrunk and contained he will have gained enough knowledge with his TP etc to wield Mjilnor well - THAT his evidence DOES support).

Id made one simoke flaw in an otherwise great strategy. He failed to think of the quick draw. That IMHO will cost him dearly.


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Old Post Mar 27th, 2018 11:23 PM
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Damborgson
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Beatbooks vs. Id: Id convinced me more. Beatbooks imo didn't make a strong evidence argument as to why Mjolnir is not sentient enough for Nate Grey to interact with it. If he is Worthy, Mjolnir would subconsciously fed him information that he needs (See Jane) and with the scans Id presented, I am convinced, there is enough overlap that as a Worthy wielder, he could use it tap Mjolnir for knowledge. This was a fun fight, I never expected Damian Hellstorm to be that powerful. Great match up by both! thumb up

Rages verdict : ID


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Old Post Apr 3rd, 2018 03:35 AM
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Damborgson
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quote:

Philosophía wrote on Apr 2nd, 2018 02:06 PM:
First thing first - why did both of you spend a considerable chunk [to say the least] of your debate arguing something that the rules have already made clear?

You don't need to use "Psychometry". You didn't need to argue that your opponent's characters don't have the knowledge to use the hammer. Because this was already taken care of, by Damborg, in his first post:

-No "thunder God" specific abilities still leaves the rest of Mjolnir's potent arsenal to be added to your character. And for the purposes of the tournament, if you've seen Mjolnir do it, so can your character.
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f77/t651256.html

Basically, what either of you [as a real life person] knows Mjolnir can do, applies to the character too.

With that out of the way...

ID's plan

a).use his powers to find out everything about Mjolnir -- that the rules state he already knows. He wastes time here.

b). put psionic armor on himself = thumb up

c). use the hammer to amp his psionic blasts = thumb up

d). Make Hellstrom unworthy.

This is clever. But there's a couple of problems here. First, Damborg didn't specify any change in the characters. The characters aren't suddenly all a copy of Thor's personality that can be reverted back to their 'initial' state. They're the same they always were but, for the sake of the tourney, the hammer considers them worthy. So the worthiness itself, as a character trait, doesn't exist (Absorbing Man wields Mjolnir, ffs) that can be 'erased' or 'reverted'. Nate doesn't even know what to look for to bring "Hellstorm" back to. Who's to say that would make him unworthy, in the current circumstances?

So I don't think he can.

Beatboks plan

Presenting a general overview of Hellstrom.

I don't see beatboks multiplication based on statements as straightforward as he does, but fair enough, he is strong. He does a good job of showing the general 'range' of his physical abilities.

It will most likely not get physical in here, though.

There's two things that are very relevant:

- durability, and while he has some good energy durability feats and shields, I can't see them standing up to Mjolnir-amped Psionic blast.
- tp defenses, and while there's something there, Nate is on a different level. He didn't show scans of Mjolnir itself protecting against mental attacks. The scan he did show is specifically of Emma looking inside of a 'God' - nothing to do with Mjolnir's protection.

The fight

Since Id spends a good chunk trying to read a book he already knows, Beatboks will certainly get the first attack in.

He tries to:
a). shrink
b). trap Nate in a forcefield while at that size.

This is quite a good tactic. And it would work on almost everybody in this tourney..except Nate.

Nate can both teleport and reform his body. You can't trap him, and you can't affect him for long.

Once he gets past the initial attack, Telepathy/Psionics will beat Hellstrom. I have this hilarious image of Nate using Mjolnir to multiply his psionics output, and then Beatboks uses his Mjolnir to double-multiply the psionics he received, who then sends it to Nate who also uses Mjolnir to triple-multiply the psionics and so on...like a hammer-based ping pong match. But I digress.

Winner: ID


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Old Post Apr 3rd, 2018 03:36 AM
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Congratulations, ID you are the winner ! If I get a 3rd verdict ill post it as well.

Good job to Beatboks as well!


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Old Post Apr 3rd, 2018 03:37 AM
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beatboks
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Congrats Id

Best of luck in the future rounds

Old Post Apr 3rd, 2018 05:57 AM
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Digi
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I was asked to judge, then basically finished it before I saw Id had already won. So...

As per my norm, I'm going to be writing things out as I read through the match. As such, opinions stated early in the judgement could be contradicted by those later on. I also had a question about knowledge of Mjolnir, but I don't think it affects this match, I think it was answered above in Phil's ruling, and I'd prefer to just get this out since the match is already decided.

Since this match is decided, I'll spare the tension and add a 3rd vote for Id. But notes are below:

- Id's writeup was a bit odd. I thought combatants were granted full knowledge of the hammer, so spending so much time unlocking it was unnecessary. Even if I'm wrong, I'm more or less allowing both combatants intelligent use of Mjolnir's abilities in my ruling, so long as it's within the hammer's power.
- I see Phil touched on this in his ruling as well.
- I'm also a touch skeptical of Nate breaking Hellstrom's link to the hammer, but we'll see (edit: this was never revisited in enough detail to make it credible).
- Id did display Nate's full power, and used the 100x scan, which is always a nice touch (it was one of the earliest Thor scans used in tourneys, and it stupid OP).
- Boks, you gotta stop treating writeups like a respect thread. The parts on durability only serve to emphasize that Nate would win in a brawl. 1-2 scans as needed is fine, but if you're < your opponent in an area, divert attention elsewhere.
- More about who's the worthiest or could unlock Mjolnir fully, which amounts to filler given the rules. It can be tough to remember everything, but given the time you guys have to put into writeups and rebuttals, you owe it to yourselves to know each and every crevice of the rules.
- Hellstrom was always going to have to use magic and trickery to overcome the power disparity. He tried a bit with things like shrinking, but was countered with predictably solid counters like teleportation.
- I do believe Hellstrom wouldn't be taken down by telepathy. But given Nate's best feats, it also shows that it would likely affect Hellstrom greatly. Points were shown on both sides, and this was one of the better-debated aspects of the fight imo.
- Lots of critical comments above, but take it with a grain of salt, and in the spirit the comments are given, which is that I'd expect judges to tell me where they thought I f*cked up, and would appreciate the perspective, even if it's not the kindest writeup. You guys both know your sh*t and presented credible strategies and scans. But frankly, this was a sloppy match for you both. Boks, you gotta go right for the magic stuff he can't counter (and make sure KMC doesn't cut off your scans, a couple of which didn't work), and Id, I expected more preemptive defenses against magic. You overwhelm him believably, but it was more of a blunt strategy than I expected, and as broken as that 100x scan is, it won't win in more tightly-plotted matches. And you both overlooked a crucial rule that two judges knew about who are only tangentially paying attention to things.

Thanks for the fun read.


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Last edited by Digi on Apr 3rd, 2018 at 10:52 PM

Old Post Apr 3rd, 2018 10:49 PM
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Yeah, I was taking my time with this match, and never got around to judging before Id won. Sorry about that. I have a few notes that I wrote, for what its worth:

- I agree that time was wasted on the 'hammer prowess' debate, although if there was some sort of skill/finesse edge to be gained, I suppose I would have given it to Id.

- I don't think the psychometry attack would have worked, despite a whisper being used to depower Odinson (which is a good point), just because I read the rules as making the 'worthiness' of characters an unmutable trait for the sake of the tourney. I think Damborg should maybe rule on this for future matches though.

- I don't think Hellstrom qualifies as a God of Thunder, at all, even if he's a demigod who has used lightning before (I would rule against Wonder Woman on the same grounds).

- I think more of Boks' write up survived scrutiny than Id's, which swayed me towards Daimon.... but frankly, this is a match that was probably won in the drafting stage.


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Old Post Apr 3rd, 2018 11:07 PM
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