I hate the idea of people/ fans editing films like TPM. The film is there if you dont like it fine, but dont go thinking the world of youself by editing it into what is good for me(talking about the fan or whatever he is). No the edit thing is crap, havent seen it and wont see it either. I dont go fixing on Mona Lisa so why should this person have the nerve to edit TPM. What a f*****g jerk.
I think this fan just showed how it COULD have been. Otherwise a lot of us are just very concerned if GL has lost it. For TPM'DOES contain flaws that the OT doesn't have. And this time GL had no restrictions in any sense and then he just doesn't really make it up to standards. That's sad.
THis guy showed me that TPm wasn't too bad, there were just a few too many cringe moments and a few scenes that were ONLY eyecandy and served no real purpose.
There is also this weird difference between film and art. Film at this level is not JUST art, it is also a commercial commodity, a product. And when a product is not up to standard it requires modification. Yes, what this guy was perhaps bad, but obviously no one at Lucasfilm had the guts or the authority to convince Lucas that not everything was up to standard. This guy, as a devoted fan, made his own way to let the creator of his favourite saga know how it could have been. And from a cinematographical point of view, he certainly DID improve Lucas, whether you like it or not. He did not gain any financial benefit from it, he just did it in his own time.
Therefore it is very comparable to people who make SW fan art using pics and photo's from Lucasfilm. Do these people try to show GL sucks? No, they show their devotion to their favourite saga to make variations of a theme. And sometimes, who knows, someone comes up with a better design for a poster. Is that bad? Is Lucasfilm infallible? I think not.
I am getting so tired of saying this that my fingers can just fly across the keyboard without me even thinking, SW's is George Lucas's films, what gives anybody the right to start interfering with them, all six of the films can only be judged when they are all finished, there are no doubt parts of the other films that do not need to be included but they are, just because the tpm doesn't move aong at 100 mph whats the problem...
There is no problem!
__________________ why would birds want to have sex with bees ??? surely the birds would get stung and the bees would get eaten?
This is why some people didn't like TPM. When a lot of people went to see Episode 1 they didn't want to see a film AS GOOD AS the OT. They wanted to see THE OT. Then they got upset because Lucas gave us something new, with new characters and ideas.
Some of the biggest complaints about TPM were things like NO Han Solo type character, Padme wasn't fiesty enough, Maul didn't have enough lines, No dialogue during lightsabre battles, battledroids weren't as cool as Stormtroopers.
And the best of all - No need for a comic character because the OT didn't have one.
Well this wasn't the OT!!!! It was a new film set in a different time from the OT. Comparing TPM to the OT is pointless. In TPM the Jedi are supposed to talk funny. Remember Hans "Where did you dig up that old fossil" line from ANH. He'd never heard anyone talk like Obi-Wan before. That's because Obi-Wan was from another time. A time we're seeing now in the PT.
Trying to edit TPM so it was more like the OT proves that this guy has no idea about SW and the story it's trying to tell.
And the OT does have flaws, just like TPM.
He finances these films himself, he's commited to making another two, he employs hundereds of people to work on them, he is one of the most respected filmakers there is. But you think he had no restictions? He had the same restrictions as he did when making ESB and ROTJ.
This is what REALLY pisses me off. TPM could have also been a tough, violent John Woo style action film. Someone could edit TPM and include blood, more Jedi dying, Anakin swearing and acting tough, the Trade Federation killing innocent people, and countless other things that would have made TPM more popular to an adult audience. Some Star Wars fans would like this. But then they're not really Star Wars fans. They have NO IDEA what it is meant to be.
First off, I was talking about FLAWS!!! Not about certain story elements that the OT had and TPM hadn't. I don't care about that. But TPM was considered by a lot of non-fans as a simple shallow story, which it was NOT! But they way it was told, hidden by a thousand subtleties, it takes effort or devotion to get it all. But that's just for fans and when you get it you wonder if it couldn't have been told a bit better.
Other flaws are pace, lousy dialogue, very lame corny humour (two poop jokes!!!) etc.
Second, GL had no restrictions worth mentioning. By the merchandise alone he made profit on making the movie, no one even needed to go see it in theory. So, screw the "financing out of his own pocket"concept, he KNEW he was going to cash in big time. And he did.
So money's no option, and it was with at least ANH and ESB. And then he had all the technology at his disposal for the first time SW making history to make the film in the way he envisioned it in the 70s.
He also had all the time he had. He could have thought about it for almost 20 years. He definately started thinking about it in 1996 when he was making the SE's. The fact taht he is not a great writer made him almost too late with his script, but one would expect a GREAT script then. Sadly, he did not deliver a GREAT script.
So were ARE the restrictions.... I see none.
Thirdly, about the style. You can say whatever you want about the TPE, byt the style and atmosphere is in synch with SW. It is not something TOTALLY different. It is just AN alternative (IMHO a streamlined) version of what was there. No Johnny Woo, no Sam Peckinpah or even Spielberg style. Very SW, just a tad shorter and without the cringing moments.
You see, most people have this who hate TPM have this weird idea that the OT was perfect and had no flaws. You're saying the OT didn't have lousy dialogue?
"Watch you mouth kid or you'll find yourself floating home"
"travelling through space isn't like dusting crops boy"
"scruffy looking nerf herder"
"may the force be with you"
What's the difference between this and TPM? ABSOLUTELY NOTHING! It's just that some people weren't willing to accept anything a little different from the OT so then the started crying when TPM wasn't what they expected. Tough. Don't watch it. Watch something else. But don't re-edit the film and then swap the real version for your crappy thing at your local video store. That's what this guy and his friends did and that's how he got caught.
How selfish is that?
Someone goes to there video store to rent TPM and the end up with this rubbish that he's made. This guy wasn't talented, he was just a selfish little fanboy with a chip on his shoulder.
And there were cringe moments in the OT as well. The only SW line that's ever made me cringe was when Luke says "but I was going to toshi station to pick up some power converters" and Owen says "you can waste time with your friends when your chores are done". But I still wouldn't even consider editing the films to MY liking. Star Wars isn't mine. It's George Lucas'.
Are you honestly saying that Lucas had no restrictions so he didn't have to make TPM up to standards?
Queeq if you want to watch TPE then fine but I thought it was laughable.
Absolutely. And I'm pretty sure that TPM had more cringe moments than the entire OT. And then there's the restrictions-thing again. What he wrote then was when he was young, this is almost 25 years and three SW films and three SE's later and he STILL doesn't get it right.
Now the replacing of the video cassettes is just stupid, I do not approve of that. But let's look at this from another angle. It was Lucas who decided to develop a non-linear editing system in the 80's called Edit Droid. Later that was purchased by AVID and we all know how broadly used that is these days. And how many variations have been about. A tool for Lucas to make his films better. So in a way, he has given US the tools to make films better. Not just out own, but also his.
And when you think the TPE is laughable, you can think of it on the principle. But you can't deny this guy knows how to edit, because from a professional point of view it was well done. And I do think I have some expertise on this field having edited over 50 programmes including documentaries, skits and drama. That's what I am being paid for.
It doesn't bother ME either! I love it. It's great Star Wars dialogue. But TPM has that as well.
He doesn't get it right? IT'S HIS FILM!!!!!!!!!!! He can write whatever he likes. He created this story, this galaxy so how can anyone say "he didn't get it right"? It's HIS world. It's fanboyism at it's worst. People think Lucas has to make what THEY think is right. If you think like that then you're probably going to hate AOTC and Ep3 as well.
This is Lucas' Galaxy. How can YOU say that it's not right? There are plenty of things in all four films that I don't like or would have done differently but I can't and wouldn't want to change them. I would have had a completely different story in TPM than the one Lucas gave us. But I still love TPM. If you don't like what Lucas does then don't watch it.
Can the other people who don't like TPE back me up here?
I just don't feel safe unless I have a gang behind me.
I took it Queeq was talking about the script. The only parts of the TPM script I don't like are the opening dialogue between Obi-Wan and Qui-Gon and Shmi's lines (but then I didn't like the character). The rest of it I thought matched the OT. Maybe not in humor but definatley other aspects. But then you're dealing with very serious characters so it has to be more serious.
I even thought the TPM script did some things better than the OT, like the JC scenes showing who the Jedi were.
But it wasn't anywhere near as bad as some people make out. You only have to look to how much Ep1 is quoted everywhere to see that.
Yes, I WAS talking about filmmaking: storyline pace, editing, redunancy. Not about the SW world. I would never touch that, I love it too much.
And it's official, on the TPM DVD McCallum AND GL say that there were NO restrictions creatively on making TPM. GL could make ANYTHING he wrote down, his own words, KJ.
And let's face it, Lucas realised not everything worked that great in the end. I do think the huge amount of effects may have taken him off focusing on the story a bit. Why else hire Joanthan Hales?
That's all part of the plan. And I like it, because it's different. In the OT the Jedi were kind of one dimensional. They were wise and good and that was it. In TPM we saw them being quite secretive and a little nervy. They were far more interesting than in the OT where they were just "the good guys". They had a lot of worries so they were serious. In ESB all Yoda has to worry about is making a good pot of sludge for his dinner so he's funny.
Oct 11th, 2001 09:07 PM
You see, most people have this who hate TPM have this weird idea that the OT was perfect and had no flaws. You're saying the OT didn't have lousy dialogue? 
