Fair enough, though we're trying to keep observer comments to questions only...not arguments/opinions. But you can use any of this in your decision if and wehn you vote in the poll.
Wildstorm Captain Atom came into contact with part of "The Void", presumably enhancing certain powers. here's the deal with that.
1. Any reality-altering powers and/or time traveling Cpt. Atom may have gained from the merge are banned.
2. In general, since this was a temporary enhancement, it may not be allowed.
3. However, is it clear whether or not the Void enhanced Atom physically?? If not, then feats of strength/speed/skill/etc. from his Wildstorm showings are acceptable. Most of his energy powers and strength and such existed before his WS showings, so unless it is explicit that The Void enhanced these as well, they can be presumed to be valid showings.
It was temporary with Atom, just a short-lived series. Spartan's had his Void-merge for close to 3 years now in the comics....long enough to consider it his "basic power set".
It's like deciding on 'standard equipment'. It's rarely set in stone, but you have to draw the line somewhere or else fanboys would have, say, Slade bringing flame throwers and condensed nukes to every fight.
Captain Atom states that "Just a little trick that Quantum boys taught me". This is while Captain Atom was normal. He has been taught how to use his powers to time travel back and forward. He also states "It's been a long time since I've done this", so he's done it before. The comic clearly says that he can timetravel under his own power. Time is part of the Quantum Field.
His void powers weren't triggered until the very end of the series. What were talking about happened in #7 of 9. He even states that it's just an old trick he learned awhile ago. Nothing we've used is illegal for this match.
__________________ Poppa's comin home to sling some dick.
Fair enough...but matter manip and time travel are banned anyway, not just for Atom but for everyone. I just wanted to clear anything up before it became an issue.
However, if they talk about overloading Captain Atom so he jumps forward in time for the "BFR" victory, naturally we are going to discuss the fact that he can come back in the present time. Just to let you know.
__________________ Poppa's comin home to sling some dick.
Voluntary time travel has been banned since early on. That hasn't changed. Cpt. Atom has never shown time travel abilities ever until his Wildstorm showings. If you choose to use WS Cpt. Atom feats as evidence, it is assumed that a BFR argument for his opponents is valid (whether or not it would actually work is another question best left to the judges). Leo/Kahn would only be using energy to facilitate the proposed BFR, thus their strategy isn't against the rules.
BFR's by conventional means (strength, flight, energy, etc.) have been considered a legitimate argument since the beginning of the rules we created initially. The only things that were banned were using techniques such as dimension-hopping, teleportation, or time travel (on the part of the agressors) to facilitate BFR.
There are three main points I would like to take the time to clear up.
To begin with visible light is already able to travel in and out of Magneto's shield. This can be seen in the fact the shield is transparent and, consequently, Magneto and other characters can see each other when it is up. We are merely taking advantage of this fact as the X-men have done before:
The first shows that bright light can penetrate Magneto's shields and blind him, and the second proves he can not control a blinding burst of light as it has been claimed.
Keep in mind that the nova flash created by the Surfer will be much brighter than the flash off of Gambit's card or from the other character both of which blinded Magneto and forced him to drop his shield in the above scans. The first shows that bright light can penetrate Magneto's shields and the second proves he can not control a birst of light.
But to be honest I can't quite understand the logic behind our opponents statement that Magneto's shield will protect him against any possible attack. What if we attack him in a way he could NOT have imagined or in a way in which the other team did not cover in their prep time or attack plan? It is plainly obvious to anyone that Magneto's shield allows in visible light and he can be easily blinded by it.
Secondly, I know some of the judges might be wondering if Magneto would simply be able to deflect the light as it comes in. We feel the answer to that question is "no." For Magneto to use his powers and affect objects in the physical world he must first think to use them like most mutants.
Now what does that mean for the fight at hand? Specifically, that the Magneto will not be aware that the nova flash from the Surfer is coming until the light strikes and burns out his eyes as the attack is traveling at the speed of light. For Magneto to be able to either block or affect the light in any way, he would have to have faster than light reflexes. He simply doesn't have the reaction times needed for him to divert or affect the nova flash in any way. Simply put before Magneto can even think about using his powers, his human eyes are already burned out from the visible light passing through the holes in his shield in the manner already described.
As for these scans: http://img66.imageshack.us/img66/62...sphotons0ki.jpg http://img81.imageshack.us/my.php?i...photons24qd.jpg
here is this description of the entire series: Dazzler showed up at the Xavier Institute asking for help against the wrath of Age of Apocalypse inspired X-Babies. Arriving on Genosha, Magneto reflects Dazzler's attack and seemingly incinerating her. It was actually all a diversion, Magneto's attack was aimed only at a hologram giving Wolverine enough time to impale the evil mutant. Alison left the team after Magneto's defeat.
All Magneto "killed" in that scan was a hologram Dazzler which renders those scans almost entirely moot as none of holograms are attacking him in this fight. For all we know Dazzler could have made the hologram's "attacks" bounce off Magneto on purpose. Besides the hologram did not use the same method of attack that we are. Although it is interesting that he couldn't tell it was a hologram...
Lastly we would just like to submit this scan in reference to whether or not Magneto has complete control over every thing that enters and exits his shield.: http://www.killermovies.com/forums/...;postid=5811537
Obviously, he wants to keep the air in but he cannot. I think this clearly dispels the myth that Magneto can control everything that that enters and exits his shield.
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Now I know that both sides have spent a considerable amount of time on this issue, but I don't want the judges to think that Magneto's blindness will determine the outcome of this fight in any significant way. That is only a part of our overall plan that and the order of our attacks is important to keep in mind. What the nova flash will do for our team is to hide the actions of our team, allowing them to create Galactus-fooling holograms of themselves, and allowing them to turn invisible (see our opening post for the scans proving this is possible). All of which will take a few seconds at the very most. After which the now invisible Surfer will fly at light speed, shrinking down to the Microverse, and penetrate Magneto's shield quickly killing him soon after.
Also any attacks that the other team can actually get off in the first seconds of the fight will be targeted harmlessly at the holograms.
Now I believe Darkcrawler may have been slightly confused about what exactly the Surfer is going to do as in his last post DC claimed that the Surfer is going to "turn himself into a photon." We never said such a thing. What we said was that the Surfer will become smaller than a photon, not become one. Leo has already explained how at this size Magneto's shield could not affect him. Also given the fact that he shield already allows in visible light the Surfer will easily be able to enter the shield (assuming it is even up at this point). Do keep in mind that the Surfer will be traveling at the speed of light so there isn't any possibility that Magneto could "detect" him in any way. Before the first nerve synapse in Magneto's body fires, the Surfer will already be inside of the shield.
However if you want more options we are happy to obliged.
*The Surfer could just render his body electrically neutral and enter the shield.
*Here Bishop, who is several rungs below the Surfer in terms of energy absorption, is able to absorb the energy from Magneto's shield and redirect it back at him to Magneto's misfortune: http://www.killermovies.com/forums/...;postid=5813980 http://www.killermovies.com/forums/...;postid=5813998
The Surfer, who has absorbed energy from entire stars before, would have an even easier time absorbing the electromagnetic energy from Magneto's shield.
*The Surfer could just transmute all the air inside of the shield into hydrochloric acid
*Or he could just bind Magneto will nonferrous material: http://www.killermovies.com/forums/...;postid=5814024
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Now to deal with the issue of Captain Atom. I wish to clear up an issue with which version of Captain Atom is being used in this fight and how that relates to feats claimed by Batdude.
Gentlemen, if you're so certain that time travel (which has been banned and is consequently an illegal power btw) is really is a part of "silver" Captain Atom's power-set, and you're so sure there really IS no difference between the Wildstorm Atom and D.C. Atom, all you would need to do is find a scan of silver Captain Atom voluntarily traveling through time. The void provides time traveling abilities and reality altering abilities. He was given the Void sliver at the beginning of the series. How can we fairly allow a Void-enhanced Atom who shows time travel abilities he has never shown before WITHOUT the Void, be allowed in this debate? Who knows WHY Atom said what he said? Fact remains he hasn't SHOWN the ability before, and you can't claim he has it without proof. Regardless, as was mentioned already, said ability would be illegal in any event.
In short he would still be effectively out of the fight. The fact is that Captain Atom's "weakness" in regards to absorbing too much energy has been a key component of the character for decades. And the examples of relatively small, nuclear bomb scale explosions overloading him are just too numerous to discount no matter how much my honorable opponent wants you to.
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In closing, our opening attack will be traveling too quickly (at light speed) for anyone on the other team to block, it will enter Magneto's shield for the reasons stated (the fact that visible light is already allowed in is chief among them), and the Surfer traveling at light speed will then follow the light from the nova attack into Magneto's shield and kill him. All this is happening while Maxima is proceeding against Captain Atom as Leo has already described while Hal takes on Morg. Keep in mind that Hal will easily get the drop on Morg as he is invisible and Morg will be attacking the holograms. Bats and DC have yet to prove in any way that morg has cosmic awareness of any kind to see through the illusions OR to sense an invisible Hal.
Soon Captain Atom will be double teamed and overloaded which leaves Morg against all three members of our team. (keep in mind that our team will be invisible during the whole fight). Thank you for your time
__________________
Carl - "No, the real point is: I don't give a damn."
Carl - "This line, here? Line of Death. You cross it, and your freedoms no longer exist. Um-kay? Have a good day."
Last edited by TheKahn on Jul 11th, 2006 at 06:52 PM
KMC Community Forums
Jul 10th, 2006 07:54 PM
Just to let you know.
