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Home » Star Wars » Star Wars: Episode IV, V & VI » The truth behind Jedi vanishing at death!


The truth behind Jedi vanishing at death!
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Darth V
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To return to the subject, about Jedi vanishing.
Some of my friends ones talked about that. Their theory was, that a Jedi had to prepare himself, before he died (to do that vanishing trick). Yoda was old and he knew he was dying. Obi Wan proppably knew it was his last trip when he met Luke, Threepio and Artoo in the dessert. And he sertenly knew when he confronted Vader. Anakin/Vader and Qui-Gon wasn't prepared! They first knew they would die, when they were already badly injured.

Could this be it?

Old Post Feb 17th, 2001 10:18 PM
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Dim
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Okay, I'm gonna pull this thought way out of left field. What if Disappearing is something new to the jedi..what if it's a new development in their evolution with the force.. It could happen..I mean most Jedi aren't concieved by midi's either are they?..

Or of course maybe it's a bit of Sith knowledge that they figure out..


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Old Post Feb 18th, 2001 12:18 AM
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queeq
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Vader didn't disappear at death, so no Sith trick there. Sorry.


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Old Post Feb 18th, 2001 03:29 AM
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Ushgarak
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Hang on. Vader DID disappear at death. Otherwise he wouldn't have been in ghost form at the end of ROTJ, which also knocks the surprise theory on the head, I'm afraid.

As for some form of new evolution, that is entirely possible. The whole disappearing trick is meant to be an Obi-Wan/Yoda plot for the next two episodes anyway, so it will be something mysterious.

Here is the simple list of facts that we know:

1. Obi-Wan did it, at a point when he wasn't even wounded so it can be done at will.
2. Yoda did it, when he was critically ill.
3. Vader did not know it was possible (which annihilates the Sith-trick theory).
4. Yet Anakin was still able to do it when he died, presumbaly making him the third ever Jedi to do it (unless someone like Windu does it first).
5. Qui-Gon does NOT do it even though he had plenty of time, nor did anyone expect him to

Oh and Queeg, seeing Qui-Gon was dying at the time, I think getting Obi-Wan to do the job for him was the best solution available at the time. If he had had eight hours dying time to impart some more vital wisdom on Obi-Wan I'm sure he would have done, but needs must.

And Yoda's decision to NOT train Anakin may be HIS big mistake, so Yoda may be in the wrong there, and Qui-Gon in the right.

Besides, ultimately, Anakin came good in the end. So Qui-Gon WAS right, and there's really no other way to see it.


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Old Post Feb 19th, 2001 06:05 AM
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Admiral Kettch
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Anakin does not disappear when he died. Disappearing and reappearing in ghost form have nothing to do with each other, unless his coming back was a fluke. Such as Yoda bringing Anakin back in ghost form to appear to Luke as a reward.

Old Post Feb 19th, 2001 11:29 AM
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Dim
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Actually how do we know that he didn't disappear?...he might have.. As for Yoda..I don't think there's much to suggest that you can pull a trick like that..and it doesn't seem like something GL would want to suggest.IMVHO..OC.


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Old Post Feb 19th, 2001 07:45 PM
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queeq
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Ushgarak, are you pulling me the "What I told you is true from a certain point of view" line on me? laughing out loud

Vader did not disappear, he was burnt up. After that he appeared as a ghost. It may be a reference to a pruging fire. I reckon the same might happen to Qui-Gon. This disappearing and burning thing is one of the things Lucas will explain to us in the enxt two episodes. So that covers Vader.

As for Qui-Gon's mistake, I think at this time, that Qui-Gon might have been the only one really capable of training him. He was the only one who really believed in him and was moivated to see the prophecy fulfilled. He should have known better, but hey, he was dying. If he wasn't we wouldn't have had the OT or the PT. laughing out loud


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Old Post Feb 19th, 2001 07:49 PM
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Ushgarak
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It was a little 'point-of-view"-esque, wasn't it?

I'd like to state for the record that I am absolutely certain that the disappearing and the ghost form is directly linked. It always seemed pretty obviousd to me, and I am surprised that some people don't think so. So I take Anakin's appearance in ROTJ as direct evidence that Vader disappeared inside his suit, shortly after he said his last words to Luke.

If they ARE two seperate things, then they are BOTH mysterious things that none of the Jedi know about, that Obi-Wan and Yoda will discover during episodes II and III (and I hope I don't have to justify that again). Rather more credible for them to both be the same thing, yeah?

As for Qui-Gon... oh, I don't know, I'm just very sympathetic to him. Dying ruins anyone's perfect plan, and I don't see whty he should be judged for it. And I just don't see why, if it's a balance thing, he doesn't get to disappear and Obi-Wan does. Obi-Wan did hell of alot worse than hi, after all.

That's a nice signature pic thing, Queeg.


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"You've never had any TINY bit of sex, have you?"

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Old Post Feb 20th, 2001 02:42 AM
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JediOasis
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Anakin DID disappear shortly after he died. In an interview RM said that Luke was burning the Vader suit but Anakin was not inside.


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Old Post Feb 20th, 2001 06:00 AM
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queeq
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Well that's EU then. We don't SEE him disappearing. So far the movie statistics speak against it: two die,disappear and are not burned and two die, don't disappear and ARE burned.

thanks for the compliment Ushgarak, but all honour should got to Milady Dim. She made it.


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Old Post Feb 20th, 2001 06:57 PM
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JediOasis
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But I'm pretty sure if the Executive Producer of the PT says that Anakin did disappear then I am pretty sure it happened. I don't think its something that he would have "guessed" on cause that wouldn't have made Lucas to happy.


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Old Post Feb 21st, 2001 01:45 AM
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Ushgarak
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If RM said it, it's almost certainly true.Like I say, I thought it was pretty obvious.

GL really put the cat among the pigeons when Qui-GOn didn't disappear, didn't he? He's probably very happy at all this speculation.

In retrospect, it was pretty obvious there was going to be a mystery to it, though. From the moment Alec Guiness said "Strike me down and I will become far more powerful than you can possibly imagine", GL told us that the disappearing trick was an unheard of thing.

Even if he did make up Obi-Wan's death on the spot.


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"We've got maybe seconds before Darth Rosenberg grinds everybody into Jawa burgers and not one of you buds has the midi-chlorians to stop her!"

"You've never had any TINY bit of sex, have you?"

BtVS

Old Post Feb 21st, 2001 02:52 AM
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queeq
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I agree that it was unheard of. So where would Anakin have learned how to do it. Probably not even Palpy was able to do that. But, hey, GL said the disappearing of the KEdi would be explained in the PT. And as RM, well, he wasn't the Exec of the OT. And I honestly doubt that GL ever wrote Anakin's diappearing in the script. It is probably a twist he makes now to make it work. But I stick to what the movies show and they quite distinctly show Yoda and OB1 disappearing and not Anakin. It also sounds a little silly to burn an empty costume, besides I have to check but it does look kind of filled.


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Old Post Feb 21st, 2001 08:06 PM
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JediOasis
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Yeah, but wouldn't Luke have had a little bit of trouble dragging his very large father up the ramp while the Death Star was being destroyed, and then putting him on top on the burning funereal pyre? He would have burnt the suit for symbolism. It marked the end of the Sith Lords when the suit became nothing more than ash.


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-Noel Gallagher

Old Post Feb 23rd, 2001 04:31 AM
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queeq
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I don't know. He did a good job supporting him to the hangar. Dragging him on board the shuttle with a little force power should pose no problems.

As for dragging him off, I'm sure he would have some help from other rebels. After all he was a Rebel Commander.


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Old Post Feb 23rd, 2001 05:25 PM
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Gundark
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I think when Luke landed on Endor, he landed away from where everybody was, built the funeral pyre and burnt the suit. THEN joined that nauseating Ewok celebration. I don't think he would have wanted anybody at all to see him dragging Vader's body or suit off the shuttle, let alone ask for help. I mean, can you imagine the look on the rebels faces ? Vader was their worst enemy next to the emporer for a LONG time. They're not gonna jump to help just like that cause Luke asks them. They'd be like, whoa, what the heck is this now ? It would be too much for Luke to explain, too soon. AND I still think Luke managing to get to the hangar by himself, let alone help a dying Vader, after that force lightning attack is UNBELIEVEABLE !!!! And nobody between the throne room and the hangar stops or
says anything to Luke or Vader ?????? This whole scenario just eats me up. I find that whole ending sequence to be so frustrating...and then pile those goofy dancing Ewoks on top of it. GACK !!!!! I think the whole end to ROTJ should have been different. Or at least better explained.


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Old Post Feb 23rd, 2001 08:40 PM
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queeq
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Not explained, please, not explained. Never explain.

But it is a little strange, I agree. But then again, when the whole station is blowing I think you could care less about the guy you feared most who's having fun with his new found son.

And about Vader, well, we don't SEE him disappear. That's it. IF we see Qui-Gon again in the PT, I am sure Vader didn't disappear.


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Old Post Feb 24th, 2001 04:33 AM
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Ushgarak
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But we DO see him in ghost form, and we have every indication that the two are linked!


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"We've got maybe seconds before Darth Rosenberg grinds everybody into Jawa burgers and not one of you buds has the midi-chlorians to stop her!"

"You've never had any TINY bit of sex, have you?"

BtVS

Old Post Feb 24th, 2001 05:24 AM
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Dim
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Yeah..it seems pretty much a given at this point.


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Old Post Feb 24th, 2001 10:36 PM
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queeq
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We don't know that. The burning might be like another form of purge. Like when you've not become one with the Force totally, you need to be burned to reach that status. That's why I said, if we see Qui-Gon as a ghost again, I'm pretty sure that's what the fire is for.

And again, we see TWO Jedi disappear very explicitly and we don't see that happening to Vader. There clearly is a difference.


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Old Post Feb 25th, 2001 04:45 AM
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