The more I read forum topics with Revan mentioned the more I learn that lots of ppl hate and underestimate his character...which is veeery sad. Ok I completely understand that there are lots of original Star Wars fans(movies, books..) and when such character like Revan appears and his creators make him soooo powerful and great you cant just agree with this...I saw a lot of **** about Revan, being nothing compared to Anakin, or that Luke much more powerful...but this is very stupid to say, cos as creators of Star Wars Expanded Universe stated that Revan was the most powerful force user of his era (this inc. Marca Ragnos, Exar Kun, Bane, and etc...) and George Lucas stated himself that old jedi were more experienced and stronger with the force...So screw you all who say that Revan is only "a great military tactician" and that Luke pwns him... thats soooo ignorant..(Luke is stronger cos he lived for about 150 years(so we know more about his accomplishments),Revan achieved everything by the time he was 25(26)(- 1 year of restoration) And here is smth about Revans powers and achievements:
- Again, as a Dark Lord of the Sith, Revan is immensely powerful and considered to be one the most powerful of all time. According to another Sith Lord, Traya, he was power incarnate, looking at him was like "staring into the heart of the Force." He was strong enough to cause the entire Jedi Order to tremble. He was able to activate and take control of the Star Forge, a powerful Dark Side artifact, and survived the incredible Dark Side powers of Malachor V. Even after his mind was wiped, Revan regained his control of the Force extremely quickly, and the new Revan is perhaps the quickest Jedi ever trained next to Luke Skywalker.
- Revan's knowledge most likely matches or exceeds that of Darth Sidious. In a time when the Sith were very prominent, Revan not only studied every shred of knowledge the Jedi had to offer, but also studied ancient Sith holocrons, was taught by another powerful Dark Lord in a well of Dark Side energy on Malachor V, and visited Korriban as Sidious did. Knowledge was Darth Revan's fetish and it's likely he knew Sith magic as well.
- With a lightsaber, Revan is extremely dangerous. Already powerful and in control, he also has the ancient Sith holocron of Tulak Hord, the greatest lightsaber duelist to have ever lived. In addition, Revan is extremely experienced in lightsaber dueling, doing it on a regular basis and always emerging as victor.
- Tactically, Revan was a military genius. He is the almost sole reason the Republic won the Mandalorian War and very nearly destroyed the Republic despite Bastila's powerful morale controlling ability. During the Sith War, Revan purposefully left the Republic's infrastructure intact, so that even if he lost, he'd leave it stronger and more capable. He also utilized underlings like Sidious, particularly HK-47, to assassinate any destabilizing entities.
- Feats wise, Revan found and dominated the Star Forge, survived the Dark Side energies of Malachor V, converted many, many Jedi and half of the Republic fleet to his side, single-handedly defeated the leader of the Mandalorians and his army, and would have dominated the Republic, without destroying, through brute force, no subterfuge required. Arguably, Revan destroyed the Old Sith Empire, leaving the next truly dangerous Dark Lord of the Sith to be a mere Republic official - Sidious.
P.S. You must admit that Lucas, talking about Sidious-most powerfull Sith ever, Luke/Anakin Jedi ever doesn't take in consideration the whole expanded universe thing...And it is not I who is Raven funboy, but you - ignorant Original Crappy Books fans... P.P.S. And the whole "the chosen one" prophecy theory is bull... , cos according to Lucas himselve Anakin was just a product of Plagues experiments... P.P.P.S. And dont forget that according to Traia Revan is not some "Chosen One" but nothing less than a "Life of the Force" itself .
Last edited by MaxWham on Jan 18th, 2008 at 08:05 PM
MaxWham, I don't think you understand how powerful Luke becomes. By the time of the NJO Luke has surpassed even DE Palpatine, a man who could create force storms that could tear the space-time continuum. NJO Luke is hands down the most powerful thing to have ever existed in the SW universe, he's as close to a god as they come. He has come a long, long, long, long way from the Luke we see in RotJ.
Let's make this short in ROTS novel Yoda is called the " most devastatingly powerful foe the darkness had ever known" This means he is stronger than any lightsider to ever come before him. And Malak states the redeemed lightside Revan (canon ending) is stronger now than as a sith lord. So that alone puts Yoda above Revan and Yoda could not defeat Sidious in their duel and Luke comes and surpasses Yoda later on as the strongest. So as much as love Revan he just simply loses because Luke is simply better than him in every way related to one on one dueling. And btw as cool as Traya's quotes are they are third party in universe statement and she is falliable.
And in regards to Revan's saber skills. Yes he was the best in and order of ten of thousands which is impressive yet we don't know how he won his duels because everyone can different based on gameplay. We don't know which form he preferred. And you don't actually have to get Tulak Hord's tablet/holocron. So even that is debatable as is the fact that if he acquired it he could have given it to Uthar. And Tulak was the best of the ancient sith there is not enough to say he could contend with Jacen,Luke,Sidious,Bane etc.
Ok… 1 : Luke never surpassed Palpatine alone, and when he saw Emperor reborn he gave up to his power. 2 : That force storms… Palp could create them but never controlled them. Revan created Force Drain technique which was used by Nihilus to destroy planets, Revan discovered Thought bomb, which could kill 1000’s of force sensitive, in Kotor Rakatan tells you that when Revan came, he destroyed all their armies by unleashing thousands of lightnings from the skies … 3 : Please don’t tell me anything about quotes in the books, cos they are equal with Krayas , in terms of being the truth and canon. Lucas himself told that Ancient Sith/Jedi were more powerful that anyone during the films and after. All those books and other were written without taking in consideration those ancient times, cos modern jedi simply had no knowledge about them. Also GL never stated that Anakin or Luke were the most powerful jedi ever, but he said that Anakin had the greatest potential of all that Jedy Council members ever seen. 4: And what Yoda did, that makes him sooo powerful? Lost to Sidious? Ended close to draw with Dooku? Yoda was wisdom and Revan was power (according to Traya). And all this thing about Skywalkers being the chosen ones and etc. was created within the new era (not both), admit it… P.S. And everything indicates that Revan, will become smth. Like “the chosen one” of the old era, after Kotor 3 will be released, because: 1: He defeated all of Republic’s enemies he faced and possibly eliminated that “True Sith” thing, shaping the galaxy according to his will, and bringing the balance to the force for another 3000 years (which is CANON!). Oh and about his saber skill…. Could little green Yoda slay two Terentateks at a time singlehandedly, when the whole bunch of Jedi knights were required to kill one?? I doubt it.
Last edited by MaxWham on Jan 18th, 2008 at 09:45 PM
Right that is why Luke in the duel to come later on to come, Luke cut off his hand and Luke gained even more experience after this in conflicts such as the vong war.
Show me proof that Revan even knew the force drain. Show me a specific instance when he used it,show me if he could even do the technique to the same degree as Nihilus. The thought bomb is not even useful for one on one combat. So it does not matter if he knows the technique. And I thought it was scouting parties not armies but I look into that. Sidious could generate lightning to destroy legions of storm troopers instantly killing them and he did the same to actual force users such as the prophets of the darkside.
First off the omniscient narrator is greater than any in universe quote because there is bias opinion that a character like traya or Canderous for that matter could have towards a certain character. And provide the exact quote of Lucas saying that because I will believe when I see the quote and the source. And the books ARE EU too and have you ever heard of the Jedi archives and the holocrons which are available and that Sidious himself had access to these holocrons plus he knows a great about the ancients as he goes about talking of them in the Jedi vs Sith character guide.
If you watch the movie you can see that Dooku is the one who decided to retreat. And later on in the clone wars on Vjun while Dooku is empowered by the darkside of the world he is forced to retreat again from Yoda even when Yoda was not trying to kill him. We know nothing of the true sith so they are irrelevant so don't bother bringing in kotor 3 when you know nothing about what it will be. They couldnot even include Revan if they wanted to and say he died.And you have no clue how Revan killed the two terentateks he could have used the forced to drops objects on them or he could have used a non lightsaber weapon,he could have simply ran by them or used to stealth. And yes Yoda is very capable considering he defeated Doou and Sidious who killed 3 jedi masters in seconds could not kill him. And Yoda was stated to be the most powerful jedi up until ROTS so live with.
Last edited by Elite Hunter on Jan 18th, 2008 at 10:06 PM
So… 1: Luke never intended to become Sidious apprentice and it was Leia who redeemed him. 2: Revan created the Force Drain while he was at Malachor 5, discovering how one can feed on force sensitives by using the wounds in the force, but yes it is unknown whether he used it or not. Force Storm also can’t be used in one on one combat, and Emperor dyed several times being consumed in his own storm, only because of his foolishness. 3: Kotor is a game, so the narrator delivers the plot through the characters. 4: Kotor 3 doesn’t even matter cos it is absolutely known that there is a “true Sith Empire”(or some other great threat) in the “Unknown”, and it is obvious that after the events of Revans departure there were no Sith activities for 3000 years. Terentatek are not blind and can feel force sensitives from a long distance, so he had to fight them, and also he was recovering from amnesia. Sidious killed 3 jedi Masters? And Kreia cut 3 of them off the force , and even she was absolutely amazed by the power Raven wielded. P.S. And I don’t really care about the words in the books (that also were written before the creation of Kotor era (and Star Wars is a developing universe, so things can change, for ex. Lucas himself never intended to resurrect Sidious, and after all it messed up all this “Chosen one” stuff)), if there are deeds indicating that even Jedi masters equal to Yoda considered Revan to be “The heart of the Force”, and yes it is not some hyperbole from Revans “fannygirl”, due to the fact that she saw everything through the force and could SEE his potential and not just guess about it.
Last edited by MaxWham on Jan 18th, 2008 at 11:37 PM
MaxWham, this isn't hard to understand. NJO Luke is as close to a god as you can be. He could wave his hand and cause Revan to have a heart attack. This is literally a no contest fight, Revan cannot win.
Lol... Great argument )) Have you anything else to say?? And why he didn't wave his hand when Yuuzhan Vong came? Instead of loosing so many, he loved....? And was previously defeated by Desann )) lolzzz.P.S. I also can say that KOTOR3 Revan could blink his eye and cause Luke to blow up??
It was slight hyperbole, but 90% of the statement is true. Luke is so much more powerful in the force than Revan that he could kill him with something like force choke.
Revan has never shown anything that was even close to Luke's level of ability. The simple fact is that NJO Luke could overpower Revan with just the force, and he would do it very easily.
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Last edited by fascistcrusader on Jan 19th, 2008 at 12:08 AM
No he did intend to so he can defeat the sith from within but he fell to the darkside leia redeemed he fought sidious again cut off sidious's hand and the sidious tried the force storm luke, leia and an unborn an anakin solo severed his connection to the force.
Where was it actually said that Revan created it? Please tell me your source and the quote of it. He could have learned it on Malachor too instead of creating but there is nothing to suggest he did either. And I never said the force storm could be used but he has shown more abilities then Revan. Especially in saber combat.
No what I'm saying is that 3rd party characters are subject to bias opinions and there word is no where near as good as a narrators.
What seems to be more credible being called "The Heart of the force" by a Traya who trained revan or being called by the narrator "the avatar of light, Supreme Master of the Jedi Order, the fiercest, most implacable, most devastatingly powerful foe the darkness had ever known"
But Revan doesn't necessarily have to be in the game as we seen in k2. Some new jedi could defeat the true sith or they could have the exile to. Though I'd rather it be Revan. But you still don't know what he did to defeat them And yes Sidious killed 3 jedi masters in seconds in ROTS. And in regards to the terentatek http://img142.imageshack.us/my.php?...ateksl2kcx7.png
(I thank Advent for posting the link a while back)
Here we see a jedi who has not shown enough to be called anything above average injuring one then I definitely see Yoda killing them with not to much difficulty.
Traya's feat is impressive I never said it wasn't but she still trained Revan and she is still can show bias in opinion. And this where your argument falls apart by saying you don't care about book statements because I can easily say the same thing in regards to videogames due to its gameplay elements and choices. And btw Kotor was made in 2003 and kotor 2 was made in 2004 my quotes and evidence comes from source like the ROTS novel of 2005 and later sources such as "jedi vs sith". So if anything kotor is the material that is out of date. And if lucas had any problems with the DE comics or any EU material he or one his reps. like Leelan Chan could provide a statement declaring it not to be canon. And please tell me what jedi prior to ROTS could defeat Yoda. Oh wait none including Revan.
His lost to Desann can be credit to the EU writes varying his powers as such in the thrawn trilogy him and mara having trouble with a droideka but later on he manipulates a black hole in the vong war. And I can easily say that Revan wont make an appearance in kotor 3 and you can say Revan beats Luke but the fact is your are arguing against canon which I have already stated why that this one of the few battles that Revan loses before it even began.
Last edited by Elite Hunter on Jan 19th, 2008 at 12:21 AM
Ok 1: Revan never fall to the dark side while manipulating it, using Star Forge, which corrupted the whole race before, and feeding upon dark energies of Malachor 5.
2: Read wookiepedia.
3: There is a great difference between man (NPC) saying something or book due to the absolutely different style of narration.
4: Those average Jedi as you call them were proud members of Jedi Council and one of them was from Qel-Droma family, also they shared a very special bond that was to help them in their battle with Terentatek, and in the end it devoured themļ.
5: My argument doesn¡¦t fall apart cos I am talking about visual scene (and not gameplay issue) which is more obvious indication of someone¡¦s talents than some words of narrator used only to praise the character.
6: Why on earth being soooo immensely powerful (according to your words) Yoda achieved nothing in 800 years and failed in every aspect????
7: If Kotor 3 will be made it will be definitely about Revan, why? Due to the growing popularity and fan base of this character. P.S. And believe me Lucas Arts has a biiig plans for him .
And were I am arguing with canon?? Remember in original plot Sidious was to die and Luke was a little whelp.
Revan did fall to the darkside Traya was merely questing his motives. He fell for a good cause to prevent the true sith from taking over the galaxy. But Ulic fell to try and destroy the krath from the inside. Luke fell to take out the empire and sidious from the inside. Anakin and Jacen became sith to protect their loves ones but no matter how noble their goals are they did fall. You can't defeat the darkside by being one of them. Sidious makes somewhat of a reference to this in DE. And no one can not say this without being a full fledge sith and in you can't be a sith without falling to the darkside.
I am Darth Revan, Dark Lord of the Sith.
Those who use the dark side are also bound to serve it. To understand this is to understand the underlying philosophy of the Sith.
The dark side offers power for power's sake. You must crave it. Covet it. You must seek power above all else, with no reservation or hesitation.
The Force will change you. It will transform you. Some fear this change. The teachings of the Jedi are focused on fighting and controlling this transformation. That is why those who serve the light are limited in what they accomplish.
True power can come only to those who embrace the transformation. There can be no compromise. Mercy, compassion, loyalty: all these things will prevent you from claiming what is rightfully yours. Those who follow the dark side must cast aside these conceits. Those who do not—those who try to walk the path of moderation—will fail, dragged down by their own weakness.
Those who accept the power of the dark side must also accept the challenge of holding on to it. By its very nature the dark side invites rivalry and strife. This is the greatest strength of the Sith: it culls the weak from our order. Yet this rivalry can also be our greatest weakness. The strong must be careful lest they be overwhelmed by the ambitions of those working beneath them in concert. Any master who instructs more than one apprentice in the ways of the dark side is a fool. In time, the apprentices will unite their strengths and overthrow the master. It is inevitable; axiomatic. That is why each master must have only one student.
This is also the reason there can only be one Dark Lord. The Sith must be ruled by a single leader: the very embodiment of the strength and power of the dark side. If the leader grows weak another must rise to seize the mantle. The strong rule; the weak are meant to serve. This is the way it must be.
My time here is ended. Take what I have taught you and use it well.
I have read wookieepedia than you very much.
Sheela nuur nor Duron were member of the council and this only helps my point because when they were separated and right after Duron died she injured it. Yoda could beat them no sweat
You argument falls apart because you arguing against he quotes which are canon and by saying that they don't mean anything because they can before kotor which is not true.
It is not my words it is the word of the novels which are just as much canon if not more than kotor. He was stalemating Sidious (though the will of the force was against him) he shot back sidious's lightning which is extremly deadly and he did this without a lightsaber. I suggest you read wookieepedia and find me any jedi before rots than could be yoda.
Like he wasn't popular enough to be in kotor 2 but this is irrelevant to anything.
And the Eu is canon so it makes no difference of the original plot but I have provided the quote that states Yoda>the redeemed Revan. And Yoda=ROTS Sidious who is above Revan. Then Luke later on cut of DE Sidious's hand in a duel something yoda could not do the weaker version of Sidious It can't be more clear.
To quote a little Green Friend of mine "That is why you fail"
Last edited by Elite Hunter on Jan 19th, 2008 at 01:19 AM
Are you BLIND or smth??? GIVE ME ANYTHING TO PROOF THAT YODA WAS POWERFUL INSTEAD OF THIS QUOT!!!!
Yoda was 800 y. old and that was about 700 y. experience of force using.
Revan was f..ng 22-25 when he destroyed Mandalorians, killed Yusanis, controlled Star Forge, one of the most devastating tools of the dark side, easily killed Terentateks, conquered Rakatan, nearly defeated Republic, then crushed Malak and all his Sith armada, shaped the future of the whole Galaxy by reestablishing Jedi Order and providing the knowledge for Rule of Two creation!!!!!!!
ARE YOU BLIND???!!!??? GIVE ME AT LEAST ONE THING THAT YODA DID IN 800(!!!) YEARS TO BE COMPARED TO THIS!!!!???
Last edited by MaxWham on Jan 19th, 2008 at 02:01 AM
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The quote IS proof. Face it accept it move on with life.
And how is that relevant to power? Palpatine accomplished more than that and yoda is his equal.
How about lifting mountains with the force which surpasses anything revan did with the force.
This quote proofs nothing. Raven was called “Life of the force and Heart of the force” which according to your primitive logic puts him above being just Jedi/Sith. Palpatine accomplished more??????!!!!!???? Oh now I am really mad with your ignorance!!!He was still 60 y.o. when just had to wait for the destruction of the Trade Federation, to have a chance to give a simple Order 66 to clone troops to eliminate all the Jedi!!!And Mr. Revan had the entire Republic standing on its knees before him at 23 y.o.!
And Yoda lifting mountains - is this a joke or smth. ??? This is just another foolish speculation of some user with nick “Lightsnake” …
Here is the bottom line on the usage of quotes. The statements made by Darth Traya regarding Darth Revan are in-universe and subject to both suspicion and investigation; ultimately, she was a fallible mortal, ergo -- her opinion is not the end all be end all. Unlike the omniscient narrator in most Star Wars novels, Traya was victim of all sorts of biases and predispositions -- her statement that Revan was "the heart of the Force" is simply to be taken for its literal meaning: he was a very powerful Force-user.
Meanwhile, you have statements from the omniscient narrator in the G-canon source material -- Revenge of the Sith novelization -- that Master Yoda was "the most devastatingly powerful foe the darkness had ever known" is to be taken as the absolute gospel, because not only is the statement coming from a film novelization (which is among the highest forms of continuity) but also because the statement was made by the omniscient narrator.
Likewise, comparing Darth Revan to Emperor Palpatine in terms of accomplishments is a joke at best. One of them was a diabolical genius who used the dark side of the Force and his unparalleled grasp of politics and psychology to ascend to the highest office in the Galactic Republic, orchestrated the most devastating war (up to that point in history), toppled the Jedi Order, and replaced the Republic with the most powerful military regime in galactic history. The other was a remarkably skilled tactition who achieved remarkable success in battle, but failed to conquer the Jedi, Sith, or the galaxy in any respect. Though Revan is certainly among the most accomplished individuals, Palpatine trumps him.
And this thread is a half-hearted attempt by pro-Revan fanboys to spit in logic's eye and proclaim their insanity to the rest of the universe; it's a failed attempt at best.
Nov 6th, 2007 09:02 PM
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