In the Empire Strikes Back, Luke went into a cave and encountered Vader, where at the time he thought it was real. After the defeat, Luke's face was shown underneath Vader's mask.
What Does this mean? Later in the movie, Yoda says "The cave, remember your failure at the cave" Luke "Master Yoda, I learned so much since then"
When Luke said this, he knew he did something wrong at the time.
At the time with Vader...
Was it Retaliation to destroy the enemy? (The thing a Jedi to do) or giving into anger? (Path to the darkside) perhaps due to his parents, Owen and Beru's death.
OR, was it an indication of Vader and Luke being the same person. If Luke were to kill Vader (himself) it would lead Luke along the same darkside path his father did (In another way).
The same kinda thought Luke felt as Vader was lying defeated on the death star in Ep VI.
Your question is kind of slanted. It's like asking someone the literal meaning of a scene v. the figurative meaning of a scene; which in this case it's apparent that they're the same.
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Roughly it comes down to this: Luke goes into teh domain of evil to meet his own dark side. It's a test. Luke doesn't have to take his weapons, but he doesn't dare to go without them. He trusts them more than Yoda, so he meets that what the Dark Side can lead to if you rely on the power of your abilities/tools instead of the Force. He meets himself in a way, or what he could end up as... So he failed by choosing the path of the Dark Side and meeting it.
I bet there's many way to discuss it. The trick is not to discuss it too much, it's the best scene from the saga, let's not ruin it.
The Cave is everything that is great with SW, cause it doesn't talk down to the viewer. In a sense, the only explaination you get is Yoda saying, "Remember your failure at the cave."
Compare that with Anakin in ROTS saying to Dooku, "My powers have doubled since we last met Count." OK, are we that stupid George, that we haven't figured out that Anakin is much more powerful now then he was in AOTC, do you have to hit us over the head?
Getting back to the cave, this is a turning point in the SW movies, and I wish Lucas would have continued on with these type of scenes instead of how he approached ROTJ & the PT and trying to pander to kids. Just watch any Scifi movie, you just don't see scenes like this, haunting yet with a certain contextial meaning that the viewer really doesn't understand until repeated viewings.
The cave is a perfect example of trusting the audience and not trying to trick them, but just kinda throw them off, but once the do get it, it makes perfect sense. Luke biggest demon was himself, and that is why he sees his face in Vaders mask, and it is a metaphor for every person who sees a SW movie, your biggest enemy in life is sometimes the person you see in the mirror everyday.
I saw ESB when I was 11 years old and I wondered much an dlong about that scene. It stuck to me becaue it made me think... it was fascinating and intriguing... best scene of the saga.
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Lucas actually explains it in the commentary for Ep5, i believe. Him turning to the darkside is his destiny shouldhe continue down the path he was on at that time, i.e. not trusting in Yoda and the force, looking away to the future and for adventure and excitement. Luckily for the Jedi, he changed his ways after meeting with Vader. He would have turned in ESB, but instead he calmed himself and looked down at the holes and trusted that the force would guide him to safety and away from Vader.
"only what you take with you". to me this is an indication that the cave simply manifests one's own fear and anger into hallucinations/visions. luke wanted to kill vader because his motivation was rooted in fear and revenge, thats what he brought with him. as far as luke seeing his own face, i think it simply indicated to luke how easy it was to turn to the dark side, as he certainly did not behave like a jedi. notice also that it was luke who drew his weapon first.
not that i presume to have figured the scene out....in fact i think its a mind****
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I think perhaps its a test for Luke only. A test not explained in the PT, but a test for a Jedi to understand himself, or part of his learning. Yoda knew what might happen. Luke failed in Yoda's eyes due to this, as Yoda felt it.
This led Yoda to not have the full confidence in Luke to take on the emperor alone without the full training of previous Jedi training in the republic.. Luke`s cockyness and confidence was a risk to a Jedi order that was there before. The republic as Yoda knew it.
Luke was either a Risk or the only one to save the galaxy from Palpatine. Cant blame Yoda, he was decieved with Anakin, extra precautions needed for Luke. Obiwan knew as well as Yoda, but being the last hope. Obiwan was obligated to do what he had to do. Train Luke and take the risk.
Luke was faithful to the force until he gave into his anger on the death star. Only then he had a taste of the darkside as he defeated his father. This was a point that not even Yoda could have predicted. Faith in the force, Luke was the one who defeated the emperor.
Sep 26th, 2007 05:22 AM
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