KMC Forums

 
  REGISTER HERE TO JOIN IN! - It's easy and it's free!
Already a member? Log-in!
 
 
Home » Star Wars » Star Wars: TV Series » Clones in The Clone Wars


Clones in The Clone Wars
Started by: Alliance

Forum Jump:
Post New Thread    Post A Reply
Pages (4): « First ... « 2 3 [4]   Last Thread   Next Thread
Author
Thread
Nactous
Restricted

Registered: Jun 2005
Location: United States

Account Restricted


 

Canon


__________________

"The wait is over."

Old Post Oct 3rd, 2008 06:01 PM
Click here to Send Nactous a Private Message Find more posts by Nactous Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote Quick Quote
queeq
Chaos

Registered: Oct 2000
Location: JP's bed

Moderator


 

Ah... well, it's a common word here.


__________________

Old Post Oct 3rd, 2008 06:04 PM
Click here to Send queeq a Private Message Find more posts by queeq Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote Quick Quote
Mandrag Ganon
Seeker

Registered: Jul 2005
Location: Living my life, fighting my war.


 

quote: (post)
Originally posted by queeq
Which one? Think? wink


laughing out loud


__________________

Old Post Oct 3rd, 2008 08:37 PM
Click here to Send Mandrag Ganon a Private Message Find more posts by Mandrag Ganon Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote Quick Quote
Master Crimzon
Baby Killer

Registered: Apr 2008
Location: Bringing forth the apocalypse


 

There was a pretty interesting discussion going on here, so just my two cents- I believe the clones, despite being constructed and intended to be emotionless killing machine, in fact developed a personality and an attachment to their Jedi commanders.

This is notably seen in three instances; Obi-Wan's 'buddy'-styled relationship with Commander Cody. If Cody did not have human emotions, he wouldn't have joked around with Obi-Wan- orders, however, came before that for Cody. In Felucia, meanwhile, the Clones grew a deep respect and admiration for Aayla Secura, due to her feats on the battlefield, which involve saving the Clones' asses plenty of times. Perhaps the best example is seen in the beginning of Rise of Darth Vader, where a group of clones- due to their attachment to the Jedi commanders- refuse to carry out the orders, and let the Jedi escape.

Clearly, these Clones have developed a personality beyond their creator's original plans.

Old Post Oct 3rd, 2008 10:14 PM
Click here to Send Master Crimzon a Private Message Find more posts by Master Crimzon Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote Quick Quote
queeq
Chaos

Registered: Oct 2000
Location: JP's bed

Moderator


 

I doubt it's beyond the plans. Palpy need Clones to be better than mindless droids. So Clones needs personality to use creativity in battle, thus having an advantage over preprogrammed droids. It's not surprising a personality comes into play, but I doubt it's something that grows beyond the purpose they were made for.


__________________

Old Post Oct 4th, 2008 08:43 AM
Click here to Send queeq a Private Message Find more posts by queeq Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote Quick Quote
Ushgarak
Paladin

Registered: Sep 2000
Location: Chelmsford, Essex, UK

Co-Admin


 

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Master Crimzon
There was a pretty interesting discussion going on here, so just my two cents- I believe the clones, despite being constructed and intended to be emotionless killing machine, in fact developed a personality and an attachment to their Jedi commanders.

This is notably seen in three instances; Obi-Wan's 'buddy'-styled relationship with Commander Cody. If Cody did not have human emotions, he wouldn't have joked around with Obi-Wan- orders, however, came before that for Cody. In Felucia, meanwhile, the Clones grew a deep respect and admiration for Aayla Secura, due to her feats on the battlefield, which involve saving the Clones' asses plenty of times. Perhaps the best example is seen in the beginning of Rise of Darth Vader, where a group of clones- due to their attachment to the Jedi commanders- refuse to carry out the orders, and let the Jedi escape.

Clearly, these Clones have developed a personality beyond their creator's original plans.


Judging by the comments made by the show's writers about this very issue, I am happy to concede that this is so.

That said, they DO all turn bad in the end, so theyt are still not fully developed sentient beings in the way we would recognise it; free will is essential to such a term. Cody turned bad with all of them.

I feel this statement by the film overrides what Rise of Darth Vader says. It was simply not possible for even the Jedi to prevent betrayal by their friends amongst the Clones. If Obi-Wan and Yoda could not, no-one could.


__________________



"We've got maybe seconds before Darth Rosenberg grinds everybody into Jawa burgers and not one of you buds has the midi-chlorians to stop her!"

"You've never had any TINY bit of sex, have you?"

BtVS

Old Post Oct 4th, 2008 10:42 AM
Click here to Send Ushgarak a Private Message Find more posts by Ushgarak Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote Quick Quote
Master Crimzon
Baby Killer

Registered: Apr 2008
Location: Bringing forth the apocalypse


 

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Ushgarak
Judging by the comments made by the show's writers about this very issue, I am happy to concede that this is so.

That said, they DO all turn bad in the end, so theyt are still not fully developed sentient beings in the way we would recognise it; free will is essential to such a term. Cody turned bad with all of them.

I feel this statement by the film overrides what Rise of Darth Vader says. It was simply not possible for even the Jedi to prevent betrayal by their friends amongst the Clones. If Obi-Wan and Yoda could not, no-one could.


They have developed a range of emotions beyond what they were 'supposed' to possess, but nevertheless, the fundamental core of the Clone Troopers is follow-orders-at-all-costs. Meaning, even if they developed an attachment to someone, orders from the Supreme Commander still come first.

They aren't entirely human, but they aren't emotionless machines, either.

Old Post Oct 4th, 2008 11:08 AM
Click here to Send Master Crimzon a Private Message Find more posts by Master Crimzon Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote Quick Quote
Ushgarak
Paladin

Registered: Sep 2000
Location: Chelmsford, Essex, UK

Co-Admin


 

The thing is, it wasn't even 'orders come first'. There was no sign of regret or remorse from Cody, nothing in the line of "I hate to do this but ordersd are orders" (which is immoral enough a creed as it is). No, he went straight at it, just as enthusiastically as he had been fighting alongside him moments before.

Horrifying in many ways, and I think it goes beyond an inbuilt subservience. It's a moral void.


__________________



"We've got maybe seconds before Darth Rosenberg grinds everybody into Jawa burgers and not one of you buds has the midi-chlorians to stop her!"

"You've never had any TINY bit of sex, have you?"

BtVS

Old Post Oct 4th, 2008 11:46 AM
Click here to Send Ushgarak a Private Message Find more posts by Ushgarak Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote Quick Quote
MasterAshenVor
Grey Jedi

Registered: Mar 2007
Location: United States


 

Finally...

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Alliance
AS you so often damn well remind us, this IS an EU forum. So, even if you think my opinon is EU, its perfectable acceptable here. I do not think my opionion is EU, but if you're maintinaing that position, you should begin to act accordingly.

I have a brain. I can think beyond what is presented. Myabe you have problems doing this, but since all you're doing is the exact same thing I am, I see no reason to entertain your ideas.


You are now my favorite person...


__________________
Ash - Grey Jedi

"I see more Grey than Light or Dark now days." - Jolee Bindo

"I will do what I must Obi-Wan." - Qui-Gon-Jinn

Old Post Oct 4th, 2008 12:30 PM
Click here to Send MasterAshenVor a Private Message Find more posts by MasterAshenVor Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote Quick Quote
MasterAshenVor
Grey Jedi

Registered: Mar 2007
Location: United States


 

Well...we saw the clone wars episodes last night here in America...It was decent enough even tho the droids did too much talking.. Overall it was pretty good and the second episode that came on was pretty damn awesome. It was alot grittier and more Clone Wars like...


__________________
Ash - Grey Jedi

"I see more Grey than Light or Dark now days." - Jolee Bindo

"I will do what I must Obi-Wan." - Qui-Gon-Jinn

Old Post Oct 4th, 2008 12:31 PM
Click here to Send MasterAshenVor a Private Message Find more posts by MasterAshenVor Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote Quick Quote
Ushgarak
Paladin

Registered: Sep 2000
Location: Chelmsford, Essex, UK

Co-Admin


 

Re: Finally...

quote: (post)
Originally posted by MasterAshenVor
You are now my favorite person...
#

Except he was wrong. Please go check the canon rules; sources from the films override all else.


__________________



"We've got maybe seconds before Darth Rosenberg grinds everybody into Jawa burgers and not one of you buds has the midi-chlorians to stop her!"

"You've never had any TINY bit of sex, have you?"

BtVS

Old Post Oct 4th, 2008 01:05 PM
Click here to Send Ushgarak a Private Message Find more posts by Ushgarak Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote Quick Quote
Mandrag Ganon
Seeker

Registered: Jul 2005
Location: Living my life, fighting my war.


 

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Alliance
AS you so often damn well remind us, this IS an EU forum. So, even if you think my opinon is EU, its perfectable acceptable here. I do not think my opionion is EU, but if you're maintinaing that position, you should begin to act accordingly.

I have a brain. I can think beyond what is presented. Myabe you have problems doing this, but since all you're doing is the exact same thing I am, I see no reason to entertain your ideas.


yes

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Ushgarak
#

Except he was wrong. Please go check the canon rules; sources from the films override all else.


But there is no true film source on that subject. But I guess for fools who can't see meaning behind what is actually said... *shrugs*


__________________

Last edited by Mandrag Ganon on Oct 4th, 2008 at 01:48 PM

Old Post Oct 4th, 2008 01:44 PM
Click here to Send Mandrag Ganon a Private Message Find more posts by Mandrag Ganon Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote Quick Quote
Final Blaxican
Restricted

Registered: Jan 2006
Location: The epitome of my evolution.

Account Restricted


 

Yep. Until it's officially stated it's still up for interpretation. smile

That being said, in the Clone Commando novels a clone gets a jedi chick pregnant.

So... I'm sure there will end up being some conflict when 66 comes around.


__________________


Old Post Oct 4th, 2008 02:34 PM
Click here to Send Final Blaxican a Private Message Find more posts by Final Blaxican Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote Quick Quote
Ushgarak
Paladin

Registered: Sep 2000
Location: Chelmsford, Essex, UK

Co-Admin


 

That's manifestly untrue- you should read things properly. Alliance was trying to override things said on film with his own opinion, saying blanket things like that the lines by the Kaminoans about the troopers were lies, because these canon facts did not suit him.

The film facts here are actually clear. To support Alliance's position is contrary tp canon and thus folly.

It is canon that the Clones were made the way they were.

It is canon about how Cody acted with order 66 even after a long relationship with Obi-Wan.

In fact it is clear that with ALL the major Jedi who had had years to build up such relationships, their commanders cold-bloodedly ordered or caused their deaths without pause for thought or reason.

All facts for those with the wit to see them. Now, don't be like Alliance and constrcut you own contrary view and then try to selectively ignore canon to make it work for gim. That doesn't swing. Hence his attitude in this thread is an extremely bad one to find laudable.

There's plenty of room for debate about the Clones, but Alliance's pretention to his nonsense being intelligent thought was just whitewash. There is nothing smart or deeper-looking about simply ignoring presented facts to suit your own view. That's all he did.

Again, the canon rules here are clear. Your opinion does not trump what the films say, and that is what Alliance was trying to do and what you are trying to support.


__________________



"We've got maybe seconds before Darth Rosenberg grinds everybody into Jawa burgers and not one of you buds has the midi-chlorians to stop her!"

"You've never had any TINY bit of sex, have you?"

BtVS

Last edited by Ushgarak on Oct 4th, 2008 at 03:44 PM

Old Post Oct 4th, 2008 03:29 PM
Click here to Send Ushgarak a Private Message Find more posts by Ushgarak Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote Quick Quote
All times are UTC. The time now is 09:57 PM.
Pages (4): « First ... « 2 3 [4]   Last Thread   Next Thread

Email this Page
Subscribe to this Thread
   Post New Thread  Post A Reply

Forum Jump:
Search by user:
 

Forum Rules:
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
HTML code is OFF
vB code is ON
Smilies are ON
[IMG] code is ON

Text-only version
 

< Contact Us - KillerMovies.com - Forum Archive - Forum Rules >


© Copyright 2000-2006, KillerMovies.com. All Rights Reserved.
Forum powered by: vBulletin, copyright ©2000-2006, Jelsoft Enterprises Limited.