Registered: Jul 2005
Location: Living my life, fighting my war.
Yea, lets not go around giving George the idea to change more stuff in the OT up... I would say give the PT a remake, but he'd probably make it worse... Like an entire scene where Anakin and Jar Jar are talking philosophy...
Sooo... when Padme' dies, he decided to stay evil because... ?
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Last edited by Mandrag Ganon on Sep 24th, 2009 at 08:41 PM
Registered: Sep 2005
Location: May or may not be somewhere else.
scary...
...maybe he thought that there's nothing left for him anyway and he already messed everything up so he thought "well screw this" and finalized the deal with the dark side?
Registered: Jul 2005
Location: Living my life, fighting my war.
Very true. But it'd probably come out something like:
Anakin: Jar Jar, what do you think about the ramifications the Jedi have on the common population, seeing as they are technically nothing more than a group of Vigilante Space Wizards? (Yes, I just pulled that out of my butt.)
Jar Jar: Mie dunno, Annie. (Jar Jar trips over a nearby blaster, causing it to fire into a nearby fuel cell, causing a chain-reacton explosion that blows out the entire wall, alerting the separatist forces. Anakin Joins battle reluctantly due to his newly confounded beliefs and Jar Jar runs around like an idiot, accidentally destroying the entire separatist force that was attacking them.)
Anakin: What have I done? (Falls to his knees and begins sobbing.)
That is an exaggeration. The roots of Anakin's eventual fall to the Dark side started right from when he was accepted to the Jedi Order, despite Yoda's fears about training him at his age, and the attachment he still felt to his mother.
Expanded universe material like 'Rogue Planet' by Greg Bear put down more root causes for his actions. But by the time Episode II came along, we see he's gotten arrogant in his prowess, and the council has gotten interested in indulging him because of his great talent. Only Obi Wan is concerned, because he's with him all the time.
Palpatine subtly arranges for Anakin to spend time with Padme as official business, starting the wheels of his plan in motion. The seeds of their eventual - and forbidden - secret marriage are planted.
Anakin comes to his mother's rescue too late, and kills the Tuskens in a rage that shocks and shames him later. It shows his self control is frayed when it comes to those close to him.
The rematch with Dooku in Episode III, he executes him in cold blood at Palpatine's request. Anakin is suddenly ashamed at this, but Palpatine confuses his thoughts on it, saying it was necessary and not the first time Anakin has killed for justifiable revenge (his mother.)
Knowing Anakin is having nightmares of Padme's death in childbirth, Palpatine starts dropping hints of secret Sith knowledge for preserving life, while beginning to disparage the reputation of the Jedi. He confuses Anakin's thinking of what should motivate him - "The Jedi are selfless. They think only of others" states Anakin. Later he will be twisting that into thinking by saving Padme he IS being selfless. And by saving Palpatine from being 'killed' by Mace Windu, that he is following a moral code he thinks the Jedi are not following, believing they are taking over the Republic illegally.
It's once he chops off Mace Windu's hand, that there is no going back for Anakin. He is fully in Palpatine's thrall.
So no, it's not just suddenly. It's something that has been worked on since Episode I, when Palpatine greeted the the young Anakin and declared "We will watch your career with great interest."
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"I'm not smart so much as I am not dumb." - Harlan Ellison
After Anakin chops Mace's arm off (which was done because he thought he needed him, that and that "it's not the jedi way" to kill an unarmed prisoner) it pretty much was no turning back after that because, well, you think about it! You just helped a sith lord kill one of the jedi council! The jedi won't be very impressed! Straight after that, Palpatine goes "execute order 66" and turns every single clone trooper into stormtroopers, pretty much sealing the deal, THEN Anakin has a lightsaber fight to the death with his own mentor, the closest thing he ever had to a father who leaves him to die on the side of a river of lava! To top it all off, his one true love dies! I think thats enough to turn Ned Flanders evil!
Palpatine exploited his long-unfulfilled need for a father figure.
If Qui-Gon had lived, maybe he could have done it, and trained Anakin in a different way that would have kept him on the light side. But Qui-Gon was a maverick with different ideas than the council. Because Obi Wan wasn't willing to play father, just teacher (and a rather unyielding one) Palpatine saw his opportunity to get into Anakin's head years in advance.
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"I'm not smart so much as I am not dumb." - Harlan Ellison
Lucas is a big kid at heart, that's all. I've said a million times on here. The Star Wars generation changed with the release of the PT. It was the parents who passed SW on to their kids, and the kids are the ones who idolized all the SW merchandise and toy lightsabers. Yes the adults still cherished the older movies, but in 1999, that generation of parents were kids when the OT came out, and the PT was for a new generation of kids. I think that's why we get a lot of childish elements from these movies. Lucas did the best he could, his devotion and love for his creation means he would not try to intentional mess it up, just as parents would not intentionally try to raise their kids up the wrong way.
That's not to say GL didn't have to make a movie that was kiddy. They were kiddy but I do believe they appealed to adults as well.
IMHO I think EP1 should of had the events of episode 2 and 1 combined so one half how anakin was found and trained and the other about the beginning of the CW. EP2 woulda been about the clone wars and explain anakins descent to the dark side an EP 3 be about the end of the clone wars , and the beggining of anakins transformation woulda probade things simpler
Another thought what if anakin after being " Vaderised(sorry!)" and palpy/emperor revealed padmes death he just left and didn't become vader
Vader: nooooooo! Ok I'm leaving is that the way out?
Palpy: heheheh- wait what NOOOOOOOOO my plan is ruined!!!!! And padme didn't die I just tried making u more evil!!! But she died but gave birth to twins!!!! This is more of a backlash then the vision I had of ewoks beating my best men!!
As to what roughrider was saying obi wan did fail and didn't try to play father but it woulda messed up the films as anakin never wouldve turned to the dark side
"Every SINGLE jedi is now an enemy of the republic..."
Obi wan was single.
Yod was single.
Mace was single...
Anakin had Padme and who knows what Sidious was into?
I have stuck with this theory for 5 years and Im not letting it go.
Anakin had a clear movation for killing children ( all single ), as well as trying to kill Obi Wan.
Even the stormtroopers let Bail go once they realized he was not single. The kid who attacked them however was another case...
Not to mention Bail was never a jedi to begin with...
So.
Anakin joined sidious to gain power over death.
Every unmarried jedi would oppose his plans to the end.
+ How was Anakin supposed to know what the power over death would take ( if there ever was one to begin with ) ?
Surely its not the best time to start questioning orders once you have signed up with the Evil.
Obi Wan didn't fail exactly - he fulfilled the role he thought he should have performed with Anakin; teacher and mentor, not parental figure. He considered that to be Anakin's issue to deal with. And he wasn't getting any backing from the Jedi Council on what he thought were problems with Anakin's character. They have decided years earlier to follow this 'experiment' to wherever it led.
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"I'm not smart so much as I am not dumb." - Harlan Ellison
Sep 24th, 2009 08:37 PM
