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Home » Star Wars » Star Wars: TV Series » Liam Neeson returns for The Clone Wars!


Liam Neeson returns for The Clone Wars!
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ares834
Grand Moff

Registered: Apr 2009
Location: United States


 

Balance of the Force means no Sith, not no dark side of the force.


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Old Post Jan 29th, 2011 08:01 PM
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InfernoJG95
darth inferno

Registered: Aug 2010
Location: The death star


 

felucia? and floating rocks would be episode V


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Old Post Jan 29th, 2011 09:52 PM
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queeq
Chaos

Registered: Oct 2000
Location: JP's bed

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quote: (post)
Originally posted by ares834
Balance of the Force means no Sith, not no dark side of the force.


No way, dude. Balance of the Force is light side only. Lucas said that many times..

quote: (post)
Originally posted by InfernoJG95
felucia? and floating rocks would be episode V


No, I was serious. Check out the episode and it spells out Avatar all over the place.


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Old Post Jan 29th, 2011 10:25 PM
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ares834
Grand Moff

Registered: Apr 2009
Location: United States


 

quote: (post)
Originally posted by queeq
No way, dude. Balance of the Force is light side only. Lucas said that many times..


No he doesn't. He only ever states that the Sith are throwing the Force out of balance, and once Anakin kills Palpatine and himself then balance is restored.


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Old Post Jan 29th, 2011 11:51 PM
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REXXXX
Networking

Registered: Nov 2001
Location: San Diego

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Yep, this is true. The problem is the Sith, not the Dark Side itself (though you could argue that it's an even greater problem).

Blocking lightsabers with hands... huh.


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Old Post Jan 30th, 2011 04:03 AM
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Ushgarak
Paladin

Registered: Sep 2000
Location: Chelmsford, Essex, UK

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Yes but the Sith are clearly the personification of the Dark Side. GL's point is that the Light Side is the side of Balance.

Here is a GL quote on it:

"The Phantom Menace refers to the force of the dark side of the Universe. Anakin will be taken over by dark forces which in turn destroy the balance of the Galaxy"


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Last edited by Ushgarak on Jan 30th, 2011 at 09:08 AM

Old Post Jan 30th, 2011 08:55 AM
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queeq
Chaos

Registered: Oct 2000
Location: JP's bed

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Another quote by GL stating that Anakin is "to fulfill the prophecy where he brings Balance to the Force by doing away with the Sith and getting rid of evil in the universe..."

No not just the Sith... they cause the disruption by bringing evil/dark side of the force into the universe.

Lucas always stated that balance of the Force means that everything is harmonious, all is good. Dark Side presence is not that.


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Old Post Jan 30th, 2011 09:28 AM
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ares834
Grand Moff

Registered: Apr 2009
Location: United States


 

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Ushgarak
Yes but the Sith are clearly the personification of the Dark Side. GL's point is that the Light Side is the side of Balance.

Here is a GL quote on it:

"The Phantom Menace refers to the force of the dark side of the Universe. Anakin will be taken over by dark forces which in turn destroy the balance of the Galaxy"


Actually in this exact same interview Lucas shows what Balance of the Force truly means.

"The meaning of Balance of the Force: Let me explain briefly. If good and evil are mixed things become blurred - there is nothing between good and evil, everything is grey. In each of us we have balance these emotions, and in the Star Wars saga the most important point is balance, balance between everything . It is dangerous to lose this."

quote: (post)
Originally posted by queeq
Another quote by GL stating that Anakin is "to fulfill the prophecy where he brings Balance to the Force by doing away with the Sith and getting rid of evil in the universe..."


I never believed that Anakin got rid of all evil, but that he got rid of the Empire and Sith.

quote:
Lucas always stated that balance of the Force means that everything is harmonious, all is good. Dark Side presence is not that.

He says the opposite actually.


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Old Post Jan 30th, 2011 10:15 AM
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Ushgarak
Paladin

Registered: Sep 2000
Location: Chelmsford, Essex, UK

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You've misunderstood GL's first point. He is explaining how they get mixed up in an evil galaxy so people cannot see the difference any more. A balanced galaxy is one where the distinctions are clear- there is good, and there is evil; good is obviously that which is to be espoused and evil must be fought and destroyed. A good (i.e. Light Side) galaxy keeps these things clear and distinct and hence all is well. An evil (i.e. Dark Side) galaxy would keep it mixed and morality would no longer be possible. (GL's like for a clear good/evil distinction comes from westerns, which is from where Star Wars was partly born as he thought people didn't have a clear moral guide like the 'white hats, dark hats' days)

Hence you are incorrect in your final statement- he does not say the opposite at all. I appreciate it is very easy to be thrown off by the "balance between all things" schtick, but how you took it is not what he meant and both his words and everything that happens in the films show that.

The Sith are the power of the dark side. GL clearly states it is the Dark Side creating imbalance. Hence the Sith needed to be destroyed to prevent that imbalance. My quote says it clearly- the dark side will destroy the balance of the galaxy. And the one queeq gave clearly shows that GL's intention is that it was the evil the Sith represented that is the issue, not merely the fact that they had the name 'Sith'. Keep looking at that interview and similar ones GL says. He is very clear- he doesn't just say Sith, he uses terms like 'evil' and 'dark forces' destroying the balance of the Galaxy. This is what the Chosen One stops.

After all, if literal balance were indeed the aim, then why destroy the Sith? They would need to represent evil as the Jedi represent good. But that's not it at all- balance can only exist if the evil is destroyed. That's at the heart of Star Wars.

Hence, GL's conclusion is also clear- the Light Side needs to be triumphant and the Dark Side destroyed. That is Balance. That is why victory is a galaxy where the Jedi exist- but the Sith, and hence the Dark Side, do not.

It's very helpful if you simply use 'balance' to mean 'good' and 'imbalance' to mean 'evil' (which is in keeping with GL's spiritual inspirations), and then you can see the idea of balancing good and evil is just gibberish; you cannot balance imbalance- that's the thing you get rid of to create balance.


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Last edited by Ushgarak on Jan 30th, 2011 at 11:49 AM

Old Post Jan 30th, 2011 11:26 AM
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queeq
Chaos

Registered: Oct 2000
Location: JP's bed

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I can't believe we're still having this debate though. We've had it since 1998 and mostly because people prefer a sort of yin-yang approach to the balance of the Force. Lucas ALWAYS intended it to be one thing and Ush explained it very well.

It must be the only thing LUcas has not changed his mind about... I think... until this episode perhaps.


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Old Post Jan 30th, 2011 11:38 AM
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Ushgarak
Paladin

Registered: Sep 2000
Location: Chelmsford, Essex, UK

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Yin-Yang balance is a very widely spread fantasy and sci-fi trope is the issue; GL's different approach throws people. And of course he entirely failed to explain it on-screen; if, say, Qui-Gon had explained it all in TPM we'd all be fine.

But as one commentator on the tv.tropes page said about the cliche...

-

"Who's to say that a Balance Between Good And Evil is good? It's right there in the name that it's not."

-

Which I found rather good...


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"We've got maybe seconds before Darth Rosenberg grinds everybody into Jawa burgers and not one of you buds has the midi-chlorians to stop her!"

"You've never had any TINY bit of sex, have you?"

BtVS

Last edited by Ushgarak on Jan 30th, 2011 at 01:58 PM

Old Post Jan 30th, 2011 11:45 AM
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queeq
Chaos

Registered: Oct 2000
Location: JP's bed

Moderator


 

Excellent.


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Old Post Jan 30th, 2011 12:31 PM
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Hybris
Jedi Panda

Registered: Apr 2005
Location: Belgium


 

*mod fight*


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Old Post Jan 30th, 2011 02:01 PM
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Ushgarak
Paladin

Registered: Sep 2000
Location: Chelmsford, Essex, UK

Co-Admin


 

Err... we're on the same side Hybris... sorry to disappoint.


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"We've got maybe seconds before Darth Rosenberg grinds everybody into Jawa burgers and not one of you buds has the midi-chlorians to stop her!"

"You've never had any TINY bit of sex, have you?"

BtVS

Old Post Jan 30th, 2011 02:34 PM
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Dark Exile
Senior Member

Registered: Aug 2005
Location: United States


 

You know, at this point, I am just going off what appears in the fiction. It feels like Lucas has contracted himself in the past. In my honest opinion, if the man is solid about the rules, he should have put them into the series. All this, "he said" gets a little blurry and never stands the test of time. Just my honest opinion, though...

Old Post Jan 30th, 2011 06:43 PM
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queeq
Chaos

Registered: Oct 2000
Location: JP's bed

Moderator


 

Well, you are right of course. It's one of the gripes I have: Lucas or Lucasfilm has a tendency to constantly change his/their mind. However, the balance of the Force is fairly vague since the movie never explain it. And the prophesy is also vague: it gets mentioned numerous times, yet no one tells us what it means. So, all we had to fall back to is the creator. And in Lucas' defense: about balance of the Force he has always been consistent and hardly blurry.

Until now perhaps...


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Old Post Jan 30th, 2011 07:19 PM
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Ordo
Enforcer of the Republic

Registered: Feb 2005
Location: Kamino Boot Camp


 

This whole episode was bizarre.


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Old Post Jan 30th, 2011 08:50 PM
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REXXXX
Networking

Registered: Nov 2001
Location: San Diego

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I really liked it, it was bizarre! Different territory than we're used to for Star Wars in general, I feel. The Force-wielder trio (Father, Daughter, Son) are almost mythical in nature, and the visions were eerie.


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Old Post Jan 31st, 2011 08:44 AM
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queeq
Chaos

Registered: Oct 2000
Location: JP's bed

Moderator


 

And Avatarish...


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Old Post Jan 31st, 2011 04:21 PM
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Dark Exile
Senior Member

Registered: Aug 2005
Location: United States


 

I enjoyed it due in large part to the fact that it steers the Force back into the realm of mysticism, as opposed to the scientific understanding of the midichlorians. It feels very OT, back when the Force was a much cooler thing.

Here is the thing that bugs me though, hasn't the term Force-wielder been used to refer to the Jedi and/or Sith in the past?

Old Post Jan 31st, 2011 05:06 PM
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