As pertains Galactus vs DP Tyrant, I have been over this ground many times before and so I wont rehash my entire argument, but I will say that that entire storyline was very PIS ridden...
Galactus beats full power Tyrant, but backs down and loses to DP Tyrant!?
Not buying it; that writter wrote Galactus as "forgetting" Tyrants powerset and made Galactus fight like a complete noob; very very very PIS'y IMHO...
As pertains Thanos vs Odin and Tyrant, I agree that Thanos had an amp and had to flee or be killed by Tyrant, but I honestly dont think Odin was trying to kill Thanos (for 7 full panels Odin made no action against Thanos when he had him down and vulnerable; Odin could have easily driven Gungnir through the back of Thanos's neck during this period of time) and since Odin is not a cold blooded killer (like Tyrant is) Thanos wouldnt have any fear for his life as Odin wouldnt kill him unless he absolutely had to...
So again, I think we need more DP Tyrant showings; I fully believe he is a Mid Level Skyfather bare minimum and if he were shown to be a high Skyfather or beyond, I wouldnt be surprised at all as he is very clearly a badmuthaf***er...
The thing is that the entire battle between Tyrant at full power vs Galactus was never published. Galactus may have won that battle via plot device.. who knows for certain? The question here is whether the construct can defeat the maker.
All three of you : LoM, Stoic, and Kurupt have excellent points. I agree with LoM that we need more showings by Tyrant (DP or otherwise) to be more confident in his placing powerwise vs Odin/Zeus.
BUT
I also agree with Stoic and Kurupt. Galactus was PUNKED by DP Tryant when Galactus arrived all high and mighty DEMANDING his herald back, and we all saw how that turned out.
Galactus PREPED to take on DP Tyrant, I've never seen that before. With that in mind :
This dude was taking it to Mephisto and Agamotto in their own realms of power. He's gone one on one with the IB after recovering from a coma. Taken by surprise, he held his own vs Teneberous. He was the last man standing vs the Galactus Engine when all the other cosmics facing it either were destroyed or fled.
And Stoic has a very good point, it says Galacuts won in the narration all those eons ago, it doesn't say HOW he won. Seeing how he fared vs DP Tyrant, it wouldn't be far fetched to say he won by using a plot device the first time.
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Yeah, DP Tyrant is hard to place. I see him above the likes of Thanos, Void, Onslaught, but I don't know how he really compares to Odin and Zeus.
I'm not even sure Void is such a weak link if this is unleashed Void who doesn't want to die. If he was so vulnerable to TP, I don't think the heroes would have been so worried about him given the number of telepaths that could be called up against him if it came to a fight. Certainly the writers of that What-If didn't seem to think that telepaths would stop him (I know, it's just a What-If but still).
Thing is, there is zero evidence that a plot device was used when Galactus defeated Full Power Tyrant...
When Thanos was watching the battle between the two on his monitor, the battle ended with Galactus blasting him to kingdom come with eye beams (which Tyrant didnt absorb apparently, so Galactus was smart enough at one point in time to alter the energy type that he used against Tyrant so that it wouldnt be absorbed), then seizing Tyrant by the throat...
With that said, I still contend that Tyrant punking Galactus was pure PIS by virtue of the fact that the writter that wrote that had Galactus "forgetting" that Tyrant could absorb BSE (and anyone halfway intelligent would have altered the energy type before attacking; Galactus himself had the presence of mind to do just that at one point in time as he did against Full Power Tyrant)...
This same incompetent writter had Galactus "forgetting" that his machinery would be ineffective against Tyrant as he was a high end technopath; once again, any halfway intelligent character on Marvel Earth would have immediately made their tech immune to Tyrants power...especially after he established himself as a threat.
In conclusion, the writter that wrote the Depowered Tyrant storyline wrote Galactus very badly as it makes absolutely no sense that Galactus could handle and defeat Full Powered Tyrant, but allow Depowered Tyrant to punk him...
Galactus's noobish tactics against DP Tyrant are even worse; its one of the greatest uses of PIS to make other characters relevant to a story that I'd seen in a long time...
I just dont see how anyone can make a logical argument that Galactus wasnt written badly here; a well fed Galactus should crush Depowered Tyrant...
You would have a point of it being PIS.... if all the other narration WASN'T there backing up that Tyrant was a legit threat to Galactus and he was very concerned. Problem is there is narration backing up what happened on panel (Tyrant was a legit threat to Galactus) Furthermore, you would have a point if there was narration stating that the reason Tyrant was a threat was because he could absorb BSE energy and thus a big threat. There was ZERO narration like that, and the reason why, is beccause Galactus absorbs the same BSE. Thus it wasn't an advantage for either party
In fact, the narration backs up exactly what happened on panel, which was Tyrant was a legit threat to Galactus because he had regained a lot of his former power. That is exactly what he was doing for thousands of years and further shown by his leeching of the heralds. The main thing stripped from him was being imprisoned in a small body.. but he had spent thousands of years getting back the power Galactus took away.
Lastly, the narration as I laid out baks up this exact poing of Tyrant conerning Galactus. Galactus is very well connected to the Universe and has the PC to further analyze things.. The first time he encountered Tyrant.. he backed down from him and let him take his herald. His reason.. Galaxies would be destroyed in the collateral damage. That speaks to them BOTH unleashing a lot of power. Consistent again with him being a legit threat.
Then we have Galactus feeding and prepping for his battle. Something he's rarely ever done on panel. Usually he isn't concerned about threats like Mephisto, EGO, IN betweener etc etc. He is usually condescending and unconcerned. A stark contrast to how he behaved around Tyrant. Jesus the writer spells this poing out over and over that Tyrant is a legit and powerful enemy through narration and Galactus own actions. Surfer who knows both of their powers VERY WELL... Stated... He must hurry up and get to their battle before THEY BOTH destroy each other. Clearly Surfer also realized how powerful Tyrant was and feared for Galactus. All the narration points to one undeniable thing... Tyrant was really powerful and a real threat that concerned Galactus. The fight played out just like that and can't be labeled PIS because of those facts. Galactus got fox'd plain and simple.
I just cant get passed the fact that everything you wrote pertaining to the Depowered Tyrant/Galactus storyline was written by the same guy who made Galactus "forget" Tyrants powerset...
DP Tyrant's blast did nothing to Galactus; the battle ended poorly for Big G due to DP Tyrant using G's machines against him, which is a plot device in the literal sense.
Thanos watched the battle between FP Tyrant and Galactus on Tyrant's own personal recording (Tyrant's computer on his Fortress). No indication was made that there was any kind of plot device involved, or even hinted at, either in narration or through the artistic depiction. Neither has the point been revisited or expounded on some 17 years after the fact. So the burden of proof is on those who would argue that there was a plot device...and the safer interpretation is that there was none; that is what is supported on-panel.
The battle with DP Tyrant was undoubtedly poorly written; Tyrant was introduced during Ron Marz's run and the threat level and credibility was established then. IIRC Marz also wrote Cosmic Powers where Big G and FP Tyrant fought.
Mark Lackey wrote the issue where DP Tyrant confronted Big G. As for the quality of the writing...all I have to say is that Mark Lackey wrote Morg as having a stereotypical street thug's vocabulary ("youse", etc.). Nuff said.
Anyway, this is a pretty even match. I don't see how Void can be dismissed so easily; he bested Molecule Man.
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Last edited by Power Cosmic II on Apr 27th, 2011 at 07:47 PM
Well P.C. the facts are the narration makes it clear it was a legit threat and galactus was fearful of him. The fight played out just as the narration indicated. You can't just dismiss the narration because you don't like the writer... doesn't work that way.
Why is that? People don't realize that yes Galactus depowered him into a smaller body and took power away from him. However, he REGAINED most of that power for the next thousands of years.. That is what he was doing.. gaining that power back, Hence, why he was siphoning power from the heralds. The permanent thing was encasing him in a smaller body. Okay, but he has been regaining power for thousnads of years since being depowered and clearly gained most of it back, which is why galactus was fearful. So this notion that Galactus should have nothing to fear is totally false and he did have something to fear it turned out. The narration was backed up by the actions. Two things you can't dismiss. Period.
It's not OPINION that he has been gaining his power back since being depowered. That is EXACTLY what the narration and actions make clear he was doing and has been doing. The next logical step would be.. if he's gained power back.. galactus would be more concerned facing that then a DP Tyrant he just depowered. I didn't think logic needed exact narration.
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Apr 22nd, 2011 10:51 PM
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