Why is that? DP had regained a lot of his power. That is what he was doing for thousands of years before meeting his father again. Thus, what is wrong with Galactus being afraid of Tyrant when he has been restoring his power to what it once was this whole time?
The power is irrelevant since Galactus bested him at the height of his powers, and by fact DP Tyrant<<<FP Tyrant, regardless of the millennia that had passed spent rejuvenating himself.
Also add to the fact that Tyrant's own personal power was ineffectual in their conflict (the one blast tyrant landed did no harm) and Tyrant eventually wins through poor writing.
And before you Tyrant and Thanos apologists cry out that it wasn't poor writing, the manner in which Tyrant won..absorbing G's blasts and then G being impatient and using his machines to syphon Tyrant's energies, and Tyrant in turn turning Big G's machines against him, wreaks of PIS and CIS.
Lackey conveniently dismisses the fact that Tyrant, in the original retelling of the battle by Marz, sustains blast after blast from Big G, yet doesn't gain sustenance from it.
He also instills an embarrassing moment of PIS when Galactus conveniently forgets the abilities of Tyrant...you know...a creature Galactus made IN HIS OWN IMAGE? You can't be serious with that shit.
I have no problem with DP Tyrant besting G, provided it's written well. This obviously was not and ranks up their with Scathan the Approver in terms of mis-characterization and is nearly up there with the Thani-copter nonsense...i.e., 1-time writers being brought in who have no idea of the characters they're writing about.
Marz was building up the tension well in Tyran'ts debut. G and Tyrant don't throw down due to the potential collateral damage.
Suddenly, Marz is off the book and Lackey comes in with his garbage. The writer doesn't know what he's writing about, that doesn't mean I have to take the book at face value.
It's in the same vein as mcduffie writing that issue of FF where he has Uatu stating the Ultimate Nullifier is his, and that Silver Surfer has the internal physiology of a normal human being.
Utter nonsense. The fact that it's printed doesn't excuse it from criticism or debate.
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"It is unwise to battle the Power Cosmic." - Silver Surfer
Let me get this straight.. You are okay with Marz building up the tension by various narration and events... Narration and events that make IT CLEAR beyond a doubt that Galactus is concerned about facing Tyrant. You aren't concerend about fighting somebody you are clearly above with ease. The narration and on panel evidence point to Galactus CLEARLY feeling Tyrant was a legit threat.. Yet when Lackey come in there and continues this line of thought through narration and events.. you now have a problem with that? Huh?
Second, of course it matters that Tyrant has been regaining more of his power.. that means he's close or at full strength to where is was. Of course minus being encased in a smaller body which can never ben changed. Galactus obviously can sense power levels and would be much more fearful of battling someone again in which a battle took thousands of years to decide a winner and galaxies were destroyed as a side effect to a battle. Of course he would be concered about facing a foe like that. Furthermore your logic is unsound that just because Galactus won the first battle he would be unconcerned about battling Tyrant again. That isn't true in real life nor in comics. Just because DS beats superman in one encounter doesn't mean he would be unconcerned about facing him again. Just because Spiderman beats Venon doesn't mean he would be unconcerned about facing him again. In real life, just because Pac beats JMM or Eric M once didn't mean he was unconcerned about facing him again. When you face a tough foe in real life or in comics.. things and variables can change and thus change the outcome of a fight. You are still concerned. Period.
Lastly, if you want to say throw out a fight because somebody didn't use all their abilities.. or were stuipd enough to "let" themselves be hit by a punch or a blast they couldn't blocked or dodged... then we would throw out 90% of the fights in comics and be left with very little material we call canon. As it stands, that isn't how things are viewed nor debated, and thus this.. it was PIS because he tried a tactic that didn't work.. just doesn't fly.
No. The difference is that Marz portrayed Galactus to be prudent and judicious with his actions when DP Tyrant confronted him. He determined the collateral damage would not be acceptable. Look how furious Galactus was when DP Tyrant confronted him. Galactus never gets angry, and it's even rarer for him to check his anger. The two parties parlayed and agreed to go their separate ways in peace-for the time being.
Fast Forward to Lackey and the battle suddenly ignores their prior battle with no substantiating evidence previously introduced. When did Tyrant have the ability to absorb G's blasts? When was that introduced as a plot point? How was it introduced during the fight? You're arguing based on the blanket statement that 90% of comics is injected with PIS and CIS which is absolutely false.
Your analogy is also completely irrelevant because Tyrant is Galactus' CREATION. It was explicitly stated on panel that G made Tyrant in HIS OWN IMAGE. DS and Supes are from totally different planets. Venom and Spider-Man were both reporters, that's all they had in common. Totally different scenarios.
Galactus bested Tyrant at the height of his powers and obviously G approached confrontation with Tyrant with great care under Marz's run but all of a sudden turns to his machines under Lackey because he "tires" of the conflict?
Galactus bested Tyrant at the height of his powers using blasts, etc. under Marz but all of a sudden Tyrant gets rejuvenated by the same blasts under Lackey?
Galactus turns his machines due to impatience, despite all the care and restraint that he displayed under marz, yet lackey has him use his machines against Tyrant in a fit of childish impatience and also doubles that with forgetting the powers he instilled in Tyrant?
You can't get around this argument. If Tyrant spent millennia regaining his powers, no where did it state that he added new powers, or diversified his abilities, etc. It ONLY stated he was regaining his powers that he had *formerly lost*. Logic demands that those powers, which were formerly lost, were granted to him by Galactus and those seem powers were bested by Galactus in their earlier conflict.
Does that mean automatic victory? Of course not and that is not what I was arguing as you assumed. What that means is that no where in the encounter with DP Tyrant did lackey demonstrate any knowledge of the characters' history, as laid down by Marz.
Or do you decide to throw PIS and CIS out the window, like you're doing now, when Thanos was arrested by the NYPD and led away in hand-cuffs?
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"It is unwise to battle the Power Cosmic." - Silver Surfer
Actually you very much implied and said exactly what I thought you did friend. You said, it doesn't matter if Tyrant was regaining his powers.. Galactus bested Tyrant at the height of his powers (which is actually an assumption on your part, I will get this later). Point is, by making such a statement you are saying Dp tyrant powre levels are of no concern since Galactus already beat him. As I point out in my analogies which are indisputable... just because you beat someone the first time.. doesn't mean you're unconcerned or will beat them a second time. Variables change in each distinct fight, and thus outcomes can change just as easily. Thus, if the original fight between them took hundreds of years to determine a winner.. what does that say.. it was a long drawn out fight between two relative equals. When things are that close, outcomes can certainly change very easily. Something I'm sure Galactus wa well aware of, and thus the wirter was very spot on in that regard.
In regards, to the height of his power, you have to remember there was no specific time table on how long after his creation did that fight take place. It could've been a 100 years after his creation.. could've been 50, or a thousand. Point is, we have no indication it was the height of his powers. For example, if the fight took place lets say 100 years after his creation... I would say that version of Tyrant was less powerful than one that has been regaining most of hiw power.. and has had thousands of years to perfect and hoen his powers even more. Thus he would be a lot more formidable if that were the case than the original fight. This seemed to be the exact case as tyrant has been actively regaining his power and I'm sure planning to fight his father again. Why would it be a surprise to you that he's now learned how to absorb BSE energy through blast? That doesn't seem like a very tough thing for somebody of his power level and knowledge to do. After all, as you stated he was made in Galctus own image.. and thus super intelligent and intimantly connnected to the universe as it's dynamics. Doesn't seem all that hard to believe he could develop such a technique specifically to face his father, somebody who he's been preparing to fight for thousands of years. When surfer first displayed the power to find a cure for a disease as the DNA level.. we don't go.. he learned and devoloped a new power.. we go.. he's found a new way to use the PC and perfected other abilities that comes with the PC. Yet this can't be the case for Tyrant? Come on bro
Lastly, that is exactly what you're trying to do by throwing out a fight just because Galactus didn't fight like you think he should. So my premise and conclusion is spot on... that if we did what you're proposing we would throw out 90% of comic book fights and have no evidence to debate about. Do you know how many fights characters who we know most of their powers and what they can do, don't fight the way we would want them to fight? All the time, yet that isn't a reason to throw them out as PIS or CIS. In fact, the forum rules contradict that very premise. Just because superman get hit by a blast that he could've dodged, doesn't mean that was CIS or PIS. Thus, no, that fight isn't indicative of PIS or CIS just because Galactus didn't fight as smart as he could have. The fact is, Marz made Tyrant out to be a very powerful and formidable foe. Lackey continued that SAME line of thought through narration and actions just like Marz did. They both beyond a shadow of a doubt felt Tyrant was a powerful and dangerous foe and this was true for both of them. The fight played out exactly like that, and thus I see no issue with it.
DP Tyrant punked then went on to almost kill a fully fed Galactus. In the flashback narration of Galactus beating Tyrant nothing much was shown. Like Kurupt said, you can argue the only reason FP Tyrant lost to Galactus was because he was still new to his powers. DP Tyrant had eons to hone his skills and acquire power.
In their later encounters, DP Tyrant humiliated Galactus by refusing to hand over his herald and then a few issues later almost killing Galactus.
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..even the outer hells are indifferent matters for they bow only to potent and archaic Nodens.
Yeah, it's clear when we saw an actual battle that Galactus was prepared for he he lost. Morg knew he was probably going to lose hence his involvement. Surfer also suspected he could lose so the point was made clear Tyrant can beat Galactus.
The difference is that there's a lot of assumption in your post. And again, the fact that you use the term "regain" alludes to the fact that he lost something which he formally possessed. It's stated on panel that Galactus stripped FP Tyrant of "much" of his power after their battle as portrayed in Cosmic Powers. Anything Tyrant did after that fact was in fact spent taking his powers back to the heights they were when he confronted Galactus. Also, I don't know where you get the 100s of years thing from. There's a common misconception on this board that FP Tyrant vs. Galactus took centuries...in fact it was the spinsterhood with ganymede whose conflict with Tyrant spanned centuries, not FP Tyrant's battle with Galactus.
The PC allows for a variety of effects but for one thing, it was never stated or implied that Galactus granted Tyrant the PC. Now, I can accept the fact that Tyrant developed new capabilities, but what you're arguing is akin to Surfer demonstrating the ability to absorb Galactus' blasts, and no narrative explanation is given other than some "you fool, you forgot I had the ability to do this" cop out. Ok. When did he get it? How did he get it? Can we get something more substantive than "you fool, you forgot?" It's not as if you slip in a monumental change like absorbing and strengthening yourself from the same exact agent that stripped you of the vast majority of your powers to begin with without some narrative explanation. The Surfer can do almost anything but again, what you're arguing for is the Surfer suddenly having the power to adapt himself to Galactus' powers, something he has never ever been shown able to do.
So Tyrant can do it. Previously, he couldn't. Fine. How did it happen? Where was it shown? In other words, is there anything to substantiate that he suddenly gained the ability aside from the reader forcing himself to make assumptions, as you've done? Nope, there's none. That's called bad writing, when you force the reader to make explanations for what's happening in the plot.
And again, you're not getting the point. This isn't about character x using powers against character y. Galactus KNOWS Tyrant. This is like you saying if Batman doesn't use kryptonite against Superman, it's not a case of PIS or CIS.
Except in this battle, Galactus forgot Tyrant's abilities, where no evidence was given that he gained new ones, and as cautious as Galactus was in the first meeting with DP Tyrant (written by Marz), Tyrant was equally as reluctant. Why then would Tyrant be that reluctant if he had the ability to absorb G's blasts from the onset?.
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"It is unwise to battle the Power Cosmic." - Silver Surfer
To me and you, the PIS and poor writing involved with the Galactus/DP Tyrant storyline is very clear and evident, but Thanosi, zopzop, and Quan dont see it...
Oh I see it but it doesn't make it any less valid. When Xorn annihilated Jean with the FULL Phoenix Force (the embodiment of life/rebirth and the focal point of all psionic energy in the MULTIVERSE) was it PIS? Of course, but did it happen on panel and was it referenced later? Yes. Don't like it, but you still got to live with it.
The point with DP Tyrant vs Galactus is that he, Tyrant, punked him in their first encounter since his exile then later went on to almost KILL him. It wasn't just a one time deal.
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..even the outer hells are indifferent matters for they bow only to potent and archaic Nodens.
A few things... can you please post the scan of it not saying the battle between the two took centuries to decide and it was in fact battle with gayn people. Thanks
Second, I'm not sure how you can say you don't believe Tyrant was given the power cosmic lol. He was MADE in Galactus image.. or are you saying Galactus doesn't have PC in himself.. which I hope that isn't what you're saying. If you give your heralds a small portion of PC, then it's abundantly clear you would give someone you made in your image to be your equal vast amounts of more PC. Furthermore, it seems you are taking two sides.. one of... sure surfer or anybody else can demonstrate new abilities.. but then go... I just don't like this new ability Tyrant got and I wanted it discussed on how n why he got it... We all know it doesn't work that way. You were correct in your concession that new abilities are demonstrated all the time with no talk about where, how, when they learned this new ability. Just because you wanted them to talk about it more in depth, doesn't make it any less valid of a new ability.
To answer your last question.. I think the answer to your question could be very simple. Galactus has a lot of other abilities that just blasting people. Seems very plausible that this is why Tyrant didn't think it was a fait accompli that he'd win just because he can absorb Big G's blasts.
Again, you can't get around the fact that you're arguing PIS for something that happens in virtually EVERY comic. People forget abilities, forget others abilities, don't fight smart or tactical etc etc.. This happens in virtually ever fight in comics. Yet, by forum rules, we don't just label all these instances as PIS or CIS and throw them out. If we did so, we'd have nothing really to use as evidence. That is the case here friend, just because you don't like how Big G fought or tyrant getting an ability that was discussed doesn't dismiss the fight as PIS or CIS. The fact is, narration proves Big G was afraid of a confrontation with Tyrant and viewed him as a dangerous foe... The narration by him and others make this clear. The fight backed up those statements.. not the other way around.
So you believe Galactus "forgetting" Tyrants powerset was not epic PIS?
We are not talking about a normal human here or even a highly intelligent human; both of whom are prone to forget things...
We are talking about a being thats Semi-Abstract and is one of the Astral Deities of the Universe...
Galactus is an energy being; he doesnt have neurons and neuron receptors that either misfire or fail to recieve a signal like humans do (and thus cause us to either not recall info at all or cause us to recall it very slowly)...
Beings like this arent supposed to "forget" things, especially something as important as the strengths and weaknesses of a being Galactus considers a major threat...
Dude, that encounter stinks of PIS...
I can accept Galactus losing to DP Tyrant provided its written well and makes sense, but the way that writter made Galactus lose just oozes bad writing...
But Galactus is NOTORIOUSLY inconsistent in the way he is portrayed in his appearances. He's supposedly a semi-abstract one time, the other time he's a physical being that has a skeletal structure and blood, other times he's a being of pure energy.
The fact remains, even in their first encounter after Tyrant's exile, Galactus blinked, not DP Tyrant. The Silver Surfer was conscious and asked Galactus why he allowed DP Tyrant to humiliate him like that or something.
DP Tyrant punked then went on to own a fully fed Galactus. Aside from that one encounter all those eons ago that was only recalled partially in a flashback, Galactus has never won a fight vs Tyrant.
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..even the outer hells are indifferent matters for they bow only to potent and archaic Nodens.
I cant change the fact that it was written and that it happened, but just recognize it for the PIS that is it...
All those other inconsistencies (like Galactus having a skeletal structure) pertaining Galactus are PIS too; unfortunately, Galactus has been subject to tons and tons of PIS over the decades...
And just because he's been written badly and inconsistently doesnt make it acceptable (or believable) to write him as having brain dead moments where he "forgets" very important details...
Again, if the story demands that Galactus loses to DP Tyrant and requires help, thats fine as other characters must be made relavent to the story as well, but atleast have a situation that makes sense; Galactus forgetting Tyrants powerset made no sense at all and ranks as one of the worst PIS moments in the Big-G's history...
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Apr 27th, 2011 10:50 PM
