I know how the PT feels. I'm convinced that my opinion is always right, when it turns that I really just know everything. It was a very humbling epiphany.
__________________ Recently Produced and Distributed Young but High-Ranking Political Figure of Royal Ancestry within the Modern American Town Affectionately Referred To as Bel-Air.
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the title basically sums up the sense of the film. Absolutely nothing in it makes any sense at all, the characters are wooden and stupid.
The only part that makes clearish sense is Palpatine creating a crisis on Naboo to use it to try and remove Chancellor Valorum from office so that he can get the sympathy vote and become chancellor.
The rest of the story is mindbogglingly complexly bad, with a few coolish special effects n a half decent duel at the end.
To quote Simon Pegg, phantom menace was "a jumped up firework display of a toy advert"
Im not sure how serious it was taken, the story and the characters certainly weren't thought out. Parts of it were like Lucas had written it just after he'd filled out his tax returns and was a bit upset about it. the story was bumbling bullshit.
You gotta wander what his production crew were thinking if they read the script properly when George turned it in
Well, the CREW is not really a criterium. The crew made a fool of Lucas when he was filming ANH in 1976, they thought LUcas was making total rubbish. Look how wrong they were.
But I think the PT suffers a little from being taken TOO seriously. they want everything to be complex: situations (taxation of trade routes), the political system (insanely huge Senate with a lot of (superficial) politicking going on), the Force (midichlorians and virgin birth), the characters (darkish, an attempt at multilayeredness), funny (JarJar), stuff for adults (darkness, complex world), stuff for kids (Now this is podracing).
It's a big pile of everything.... and therefore of nothing really.
Got your point there, but honestly during the production you gotta wonder what the cast n crew were thinking with regards to the dialogue and the sense of the story.
I do think that George tried to throw too much in there with regards to thinking about merchendising, special effects, budget, amount of characters, audiences was aiming it to, n the importance of Darth Vader.
Writing, directing, having the final say on everything, the things George forgot about were writing an engaging story, characters personalities, the fact that dialogue and directing have never been his strengths, all the most essential parts of good films were considered secondary in PT's production
The writing at the time of ANH was crap too at times. Remember Harrison Ford's famous anecdote: "You can write this sh!t, George, but you can't say it." But at the time, George was a little open to suggestions, so the cast ditched some of the lines and made them work.
At the time of the PT however, George was the big boss. He is the one who hired you based on his own script, told you what to do etc. He became the Emperor... in a way. It's rather impossible to see how it turns out. A lot of directors have full control of their work (Spielberg, Fincher, Kubrick at the time). The amount of room they allow for other talents to contribute doesn't say much about the end product. Actors and crew do not always have a grasp on what a director has in mind exactly. He may use stuff differently that you imagine.
But all that is in the past. It's in the hands of Abrams now.
N his co-operation's increase in funds through merchandising and computer games was what turned george to the dark side.
George has never been known as an actors director, and it was clear the way he filmed the prequels that he used the actors as tools more than people playing characters, most of the dialogue scenes the camera work was amateur n done in one or 2 takes, occasionally 3, n alot of the action scenes were used to show off what he could do with his computers n highly choreographed
I'm glad Star Wars 7 is in the hands of filmmakers and writers who know how to make good n engaging movies. Hopefully they will deliver, n star wars movies will be great again
George was never an 'actors' director', true. But he did make the excellent THX-1138 and American Graffiti. Plus at the time of ANH he did confide enough in his actors and relaxed a little more when they changed stuff for the better.
The number of takes is irrelevant, BTW. Clint Eastwood is also a director who does very few takes, yet he IS considered an actor's director. I don't think there is only one way to work with actors. Different filmmakers, different approaches.
Sam Mendes: lot of room for actors
Coens: No room for actors, everything is preplanned into great detail
Stanley Kubrick: wanted actors to create more room in themselves, leading to sometimes many many takes (read: rehearsals on camera).
Robert Altman: considered a real actor's director, but one who focussed on casting and did very little on set directions
Judge the result, not the way movies are made. There are so many factors that contribute. And with the PT, all I can say is that Lucas failed to breathe any life into it. Things happened because the script demanded them to happen, and Lucas wrote the script. It's clear who is responsible.
Its the way they are made that get results. Im judging the results by the PT trilogy.
N Clint Eastwood is an actors director because he is clear what he wants from his actors and what they want from him before they shoot. Im not sure George knew fully what he wanted from his actors in the PT, n an example of that is that it was never clear what the clone wars was over. Ian McDiarmid said that George didn't know himself. The camera work, especially during the dialogue scenes, was static n basic, n lazily edited
The results are gotten by a vision of what works and what to convey. Lucas knew very well what he wanted to see and to convey. Too bad a lot of that was either pretentious or boring or he failed to communicate it filmically. He has a thing in his head and wants it that way. You can see it in his directing of actors. He seems to have trouble conveying the heart of what he wants to convey, he just has a form in his head... and that form just doesn't work (anymore?).
It is th strangest thing. Reading those wonderful new Making Of...books (ROTJ coming out one of these days!!! Yayyy), Lucas really knew what he was doing with the OT. But he did let other people (Kasdan, Kerschner, Marquand to a lesser extent, and the actors) add their bit. Especially the latter seems to lack completely, combined with the fact that Lucas seems to want to explain a lot these days. He's become a bit... boring. And he forgot the heart of the matter, though he rally wanted to get down to that. It's tragic really... he really is DARTH VADER.
the originals were more a collaborative effort, and lucas was more willing to listen to others n knew at that time that directing actors and dialogue were not his strengths, which is why the 3 guys you mentioned were brought in.
George really went from a rogue film-maker wanting to be different and go against the system to becoming part of the system.
We can blame for...well basically everything to do with the horrible prequels, but the production team he hired also carry a bit of blame for not challenging him on some of his dubious ideas, most especially rick mccallum. His job as the producer was to oversee the films and give constructive feedback where necessary, like saying "Jar Jar shouldnt talk like this" or "People dont talk like this, we need to change this line of dialogue" "Maybe we should get a better angle on this shot" but he didn't, he was as constructive as a doormat.
it is interesting watching the behind the scenes footage of the prequels and the crew look either in awe or scared around george most of the time, but you do see moments now n again when they look a bit baffled or confused.
__________________ Recently Produced and Distributed Young but High-Ranking Political Figure of Royal Ancestry within the Modern American Town Affectionately Referred To as Bel-Air.
I don't entirely agree. While making ANH and ESB Lucas was really a visionary. Yes, he was still developing SW (it was never 'in his head' like was claimed during the making of the PT). The Making Of… books are a clear evidence. And Lucas did decide an awful lot, he came up with basic creatures, he oversaw the design process, he decided what was green lit and what not, he had a last say in the story and script, he approved the special effects, he oversaw the entire editing process and… he was setting up a company. Impressive stuff.
The interesting thing is, Kershner did kind of his own directorial thing and let the special effects people (led by Lucas) solve the rest. While making ROTJ, the company was coming to a certain stage of maturity and Lucas clearly didn't want to give away as much control as he did with Empire anymore. It's actually here we see the Lucas of the PT emerging. He is insistent on the Ewoks, insistent on a more childish approach if you will (while Lawrence Kasdan wanted more of an edge), also on the more because-the-script-says-so motivation for the actors (it took Fisher a couple of weeks to get into character because she didn't quite know the Leia from the ROTJ script) and more attention to the corporate commercial side of the movie (what creatures make good toys? General Madine got his beard because the toy was made with a beard!!!)).
All in all I think the reason Lucas allowed other people to contribute more, was because of the limitations at the time. No one knew how to do this, not even Lucas. Lucas had the vision, if you invented something, you were the expert. That pioneering stage was coming to an end during ROTJ. And that's when Lucas had a) his company and b) all the control. And why not? It was his company, his money. Too bad he maybe didn't always appreciate what others contributed by disagreeing with him…
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Last edited by queeq on Nov 20th, 2013 at 08:04 PM
I know it sounds like I'm downing Lucas's contribution to the originals, im not, he obviously came up with the characters and basic story, the way the special effects were made, he's always been a great ideas man, but during the making of the originals he actually had people who told him when something didn't work, and with Empire it was ironically the best decision he made to back off and say "here's the story, go make this film happen" and let kershner direct it, and was willing to listen to Kasdan with regards to the dialogue and focus of the story at times.
I didnt have objections to him being in control of his company, he was entitled to be, but the fact it turned him into a money grabbing hack, and that he was like "Star Wars is MINE, it will be done the way I want it", and there's something insulting about saying to the fans that made you famous in the first place: " they'll be made the way i see fit and you're wrong" and then almost completely disregarding those who helped him make the originals with the special edition changes, that's very disrespectful.
And, as ive said, the prequels were simply terribly written and directed films, and come across like they were written by the mind of a child, who just wants to see lightsabers flashing and as many CGI sequences and settings as possible.
Practical effects of the originals will beat CGI any day, they're part of the original magic.
That sounds about right though, hardly contradictory to what I said. But times were different, he did have the vision and closely kept track of the story development. And yes, you're right, he did listen to Kasdan at the time of Empire. And he let Kershner go about his directing business. However, Lucas was not entirely happy with how ESB was done (even though it's by far the best of the series, but the man is entitled to his opinion) and it didn't make as much as ANH at the time. So the new strategy of ROTJ is to take more control again. And Marquand specifically asked for a close contribution, probably too insecure to direct something as high as SW. (Plus Marquand didn't have any experience with special effects, and Lucas directed all the shots needed for those).
So yeah, clearly Lucas had a different kind of movie in mind for ESB and he took control. And then we got Ewoks… and much later the PT. Too bad… yes, he became a big movie mogul and he wanted things he wanted from then on.
Yeah, times were different but the practical effects and sets then still look so much better than the pigged out, over-cluttered CGI in the prequels, the practical effects were a part of what made the originals feel real.
i know Lucas wasn't that happy with Empire. It makes me sad and angry that even in recent interviews, before he retired, george said that Empire was his least favourite of the series. in quality of storytelling and thematic substance Empire is, in my opinion, one of the greatest films ever made and fits perfectly as a middle act of a 3 part story.
Marquand was the director of Jedi mostly because he was an actors director, something that has never been George's strength as a filmmaker. Marquand was there to say "action", to help move the camera around and to connect with the actors, getting the best performances he could from them. george was there on Jedi to guide the story and for the special effects shooting.
Marquand had to do the stuff George didn't like to do. Hehehehe…
But I agree… to me ESB is by far the best SW movie. Damn near perfect, like no other SW movie ever was. It has the best story, the best dramatics, the best acting. It's somewhat darkish and grim, but not to an excessive extent. It leaves room for imagination (the tree) and has a stunning climax, one of the greatest in movie history.
ROTJ is the first of the PT movies actually, with some of the good stuff still there. Personally I think the scenes with Vader, the Emperor and later with Luke are what save this movie. And these are basically the scenes Marquand did, Lucas wasn't too involved in these, although he did make some really good changes in the script. It's strange that Lucas didn't see these things that made the OT great.
But yeah, Lucas clearly wanted movies like the PT… and that's what he got. Luckily we got ESB.
Aug 16th, 2013 02:32 AM
