Watch the scene again. Voldemort's hand comes forward in the bubble. A moment later he's out. Voldemort broke free of his own accord.
Voldemort not only immediately got up with all that dark energy at Albus he knocked him on his butthole. Albus wielded the most powerful wand and it was Voldemort who clearly looked more powerful than Albus.
Voldemort is better than Dumbledore and it's clear from that battle. He had the upper hand.
His hand comes out yet he's still trapped. It's only when Dumbledore's attention spilt was Voldemort freed. It's clear the distraction played a huge part
How he recovered after the distraction is irrelevant (but i do agree he didn't miss a beat) the fact remains he was trapped and completely at Albus' mercy until he pushed Harry down.
Toward the end of the fight Albus was down but still defended and got right back up and looked no worse for wear. Voldemort looked completely put out that Dumbledore was fine. Kinda like the way a person looks when they give their best and their opponent if perfectly fine. Without the distraction of Potter the fight would have ended with Voldemort in the bubble
No, it wasn't. Dumbledore didn't drop Voldemort as soon as he tk'd Harry out of harm's way. Voldemort forced his own way out.
Voldemort was fine and barely if at all out of breath.
Voldemort was pissed that Albus was still alive. That's obvious but the fact remains he was in control of the fight while Albus wielded the most powerful wand ever. Despite that Voldemort still looked more powerful.
He push Harry and then the very next shot was the ball of water dropping and letting Voldy out. If the water ball was push away from him in mid air or he did his "black smoke flying" thing out you'd have a point. As it stands it's pretty clear the distraction was the cause of Voldy's escape.
True but he was still at Dumbledore's mercy til Harry "helped" Voldy
He was only in control at the end when he knocked Dumbledore over which is still far less impressive than Dumbledore putting Tom in a bubble and holding him in midair.
And i wouldn't even go so far as to say he was "in control" since he knocked the old guy over yet still could do nothing to actually harm him. Dumbledore was still fully capable of not only protecting himself, but turning Riddle's attack into harmless sand. He wasn't some guy on the ground desperately trying to defend himself anyway he could. He was calm and had the presence of mind to transfigure Tom's attack instead of just blocking.
He lost his hold due to Voldemort breaking free. It wasn't immediate but he didn't drop Voldemort as soon as he pushed Harry back either. You just really want that to be the case. It isn't.
No, Voldemort freed himself. You can deny it all you want but deep down I know you know I am right.
Voldemort broke free and neither was injured post fight so acting like Dumbledore was more impressive is faulty. Voldemort dictated this fight while Dumbledore just tried to survive.
Voldemort also protected himself and was the man standing at the end.
He lost his hold due to Harry. I know you love Voldy and i think he's awesome as well but the fact remains that Harry's distraction was key to Voldy's escape.
Even if Voldemort did escape on his own(he didn't BTW) it still came AFTER Dumbledore was distracted. So we have Voldemort completely powerless until Dumbledore pushes Harry and then with that distraction Voldy can escape. Either way it shows Albus' superiority.
So knocking someone over without harming them is more impressive than holding someone in the air against their will for an extended period of time without harming them? Me thinks not. Your logic is faulty.
They were both standing. Albus stood up and Voldy took off. Shows to go ya
No, Voldemort himself weakened his hold with the hand swipe. It's obvious.
He wasn't completely powerless he had his wand and didn't lose it once. He was momentarily trapped and then broke free of his own accord. Voldemort then put Dumbledore on his ass.
I am saying that yes Voldemort flooring him and dictating the fight is more impressive than a guy with the most powerful wand in existence taking you on. Voldemort shined.
It's obvious he swiped his hand. You're now adding stuff in that you would have liked to have happened but it's baseless. I could easily (and just as baseless) claim that him swiping his hand made it more powerful. Magic can be tricky like that.
Having a wand=/= not being powerless. He was trapped and unable to escape. Harry provided the distraction he so desperately needed. Without Harry the fight would have been over right there. Him doing as well as he did against the Elder Wand is very impressive but it doesn't mean he would have won. And the Elder Wand doesn't make you unbeatable and Albus proved by beating it's previous owner
How did he dictate the fight? Every last attack was countered by Albus. EVERY. SINGLE. ONE. It was so bad that he quit. On the other hand Albus actually connected with an attack. An attack that held the most powerful dark wizard in history at his mercy. Proves his superiority right there.
Why would Voldemort's hand swipe make the bubble more powerful ? Are you saying Voldemort is an idiot ? He has tk powers with his hands so why don't you think it helped him ?
He was trapped temporarily. He escaped. I never said it makes you unbeatable. I said it's the most powerful wand ever. Albus wielded it and despite that Voldemort looked more powerful.
Being on the defensive means the fight was dictated to you. Thanks for agreeing. Dumbledore was lucky to escape with his life but later went willingly to his death. Voldemort was superior to him.
I was just making a baseless claim like you did. The hand swipe had no effect of the power of the water. It wasn't shown or stated in any way to have weakened so assuming it did is just wishful thinking on your part. I don't think it helped since it was neither shown or stated to weaken until Harry distracted Albus
He was trapped until Dumbledore was distracted enough to A) drop the water freeing Voldy or B) allow Voldy escape. Either way Voldemort's escape was heavily reliant on Harry. And yes i agree Voldy doing as well as he did against that wand was uber impressive but take out Harry's distraction and Voldy lost early
That's very true. Good point. Wait. Wait..... I'll have to go with no here. See Ali vs Foreman. Ali was on the defensive yet clearly dictated the fight so Foreman wore himself out. Sometimes counter attacking is the best option and Dumbledore clearly had no trouble countering Riddle. He was so good at it that Voldy put on a sad face and dipped off. Albus on the other hand connected with an attack that completely put Voldy at his mercy. If anyone "escaped" it was Vold and he was darn lucky to leave before Albus got angry. And Alnus did go to his death willingly. The way a true boss does. Tom on the otherhand went kicking and screaming like a baby. Sent to his death against his will by a child. Weak.
They happened around the same time. You have no more proof than I do that Dumbledore lost his concentration due to pushing Harry back either.
Voldy didn't lose early since he break free of the water bubble. You can't say well maybe this or maybe that. We judge based on what we see. We see Voldemort dictate the fight and knock Dumbledore on his ass.
He was so good he bought himself another day to live even though he already knew he was going to die. He went to his death willingly because he couldn't beat Voldemort. Voldemort was greater than he was. It's obvious. Dumbledore sat around planning against him all day and knew at the end he was going to die. That's called submission.
Dumbledore died before Voldemort. Voldemort also finishes him this time. Just concede already.
We see Dumbledore using his power to hold the water bubble around Voldy and he's using two hands. Once he uses one other those hands for something else Voldy gets out. Seems pretty clear that Harry helped Vold. That's way more proof than your "he weakened the bubble" stance
We see Dumbledore completely overwhelm Riddle with water. We see Albus seems to need two hands to achieve this. We see him have to stop using one of those hands to push Harry back. We see the bubble then fall and Voldemort free to attack again. I am arguing on what is seen. You are arguing on what you want to have happened.
Actually Dumble was planning against Voldy cuz only Harry could actually kill him. He knew going out and pwning Voldy time and again wouldn't solve anything since it had to be Harry. And we see when it came time to throw down Dumbledore when straight at Voldy like a boss. Unlike Voldy who constantly hid behind his lackies instead of maning up and taking the fight to Albus. In HBP Voldy KNEW his guys were finally able to break into Hogwartz and attack them directly yet he was nowhere to been seen. Then we see him attack Hogwartz in DH2. What changed between those two movies i wonder?? Oh that's right! Dumbledore wasn't there so he felt safe enough to finally step up. AND HE STILL GOT BEAT DOWN! BY KIDS!
When they died is irrelevent since they dies of different causes. One allowed himself to be killed and the other pretty much killed hiself due to his stupidity and being so short sighted.
It's pretty obvious to me Voldemort's hand going through the water bubble is what did it. You can believe whatever you want to as can I. Voldemort got through this himself. Saying Harry aided Voldemort is pure ignorance. Heroes save lives whereas villains take them. It's how things usually go. Quit crying about Harry.
I am arguing on what I see as well. Yes, we see Voldemort trapped in a water bubble. We also seem him break free and guess what. He didn't miss a beat. Dumbledore looked scared. Voldemort then proceeded to know the senior on his ass.
Dumbledore never pwned Voldemort. Destroying his body though would save many lives yet the old man went to his own death. That's called knowing your role. It's obvious Voldemort owned this wizarding world. His mere presence caused a rift and he gained control despite him being the criminal/outlaw.
Voldemort didn't run from Albus. He stood there and took him on. He started the fight. Dumbledore knew backup was coming and informed Voldemort about it. Voldemort didn't leave right at that point. Dumbledore was lucky to survive until backup arrived but then again he did have the most powerful wand in existence.
Dumbledore accepted his death whereas Voldemort was tricked. Gimme the guy who tries to defy death than the old man who says basically you got me, Voldemort. I'm old and frail. He left Harry on his own against Voldemort.
Voldemort wins. Clearly more powerful even without the elder wand than feeble Dumbledore.
So simply ignoring Harry is ignorance. You just want Voldy to win so bad you ignore actual facts. Dumbledore used two hands to contain Voldemort and it wasn't until he used a hand to push Harry did Voldemort escape. It's as clear as day.
I agree he didn't miss a beat. He took full advantage of Harry's distraction as any good tactician would/should. That's not the point. The point is without Harry's misstep Voldemort would have had nothing to capitalize on. Voldemort is indeed powerful and a decent fight for Albus, but in the end he's still just second best
I don't believe i said he did. I said he knew pwning him wouldn't do anything. And how exactly would Albus take the fight to Tom anyway? Tom was always hiding like a b!tch. But he knew where to find Albus and never EVER tried to take on Dumbledore until Dumbledore got up in his shit. The only time Albus knew exactly where to find Voldy he went directly there. Can't say the same for Voldy now can we?
He ran after he saw he couldn't beat the old man. He tried his bestr and came up short. He knocked Albus over and tried to kill him while he was down. Albus easily defended against the pitiful attack and stood right back up and looked Tom right in his nose-less face. Tom tucked tail. Voldy was shook
Albus accepted his death because he did it to himself. Like i said earlier Voldemort was hiding so Dumbledore couldn't just stoll right up to him and take him out. It wasn't until AFTER Dumbledore died that Voldy took control. Seems pretty clear that he couldn't do jack shit with Albus around. And instead of going to kill Albus himself he decided to be a coward and hide behind minions. There's a reason that Voldy never attacked Hogwartz himself until DH2. And that reason's name is Albus 'Beat the shit outta any punk ass dark wizard' Dumbledore.
It's clear Voldy is the one who "knew his role". Staying in the shadows, hiding like Anne Frank until the big bad wolf goes away. Had Dumbledore not been dying already and thus allowed himself to be killed Voldemort would have never stepped up like he did. He would have continued waiting until maybe Albus died of old age
You're acting like your interpretation is the only interpretation. That's a dictatorship and one I will happily not subscribe to. It's clear based on what we have seen Voldemort do he tk weakened the bubble. We see him tk disarm Harry just prior to their fight, Albus' number one fan.
You're speculating and doing a horrible job at it as well. We only have the fight we don't get to say well if this didn't happen or if that didn't happen. It's like a football fan saying if my guy didn't fumble on the one yard line we win. Guess what he did, albus' number one fan. If he's second best why didn't Albus win ? Why did Albus go to his grave when pitting his wits against Voldemort's ? Albus died first and he accepted it. Awful.
Again, Voldemort didn't run from a fight with him. Voldemort clearly held the upper hand at the end as well. Dumbledore only showed up when he knew he had backup coming. That's what cowards do. They jump people. Voldemort is a man amongst boys.
Albus fell on his backside. That's called being knocked down by pure force despite wielding the most powerful wand ever. You may want to discount the edge the wand would give any wizard but I won't. You're biased. I am objective.
So now you saying Albus basically committed suicide ? What ? He left Harry all alone to combat the darkest most badass wizard in all of existence. Voldemort took on Dumbledore himself. Yet you call him a coward ? Voldemort didn't want to destroy every wizard. He wanted Harry's death. That's it. He wanted to rule them all not destroy them all.
Dumbledore died. Dumbledore forced his friend to kill him for fear of ever seeing Voldemort again. That's called being a scared little Alby.
We don't see his TK weaken anything. We see Albus using two hands. Once he stops using two hands Voldy is able to escape. Without Harry's help Voldy lost right there.
Great story. Here's mine. Two guys are sword fighting and guy A has guy B at his mercy. Maybe with the sword up to guy B's neck. Then all of a sudden a child walks into the sceen and guy A pushes him away. With this distraction guy B knocks guy A's sword away from his neck and the fight continues. Here come quanny "Well since the sword fight continued we'll just ignore the kid's part and focus on guy B doing such a good job. What? No Guy B didn't NEED the kids help so it's not important. LALALALALALALA I CAN'T HEAR YOU!!!"
He didn't have the upper hand tho. He attacked, Albus made it look like shit, Albus stood up, Voldy ran. Some upperhand..... And talk about jumping people will you? Didn't Voldy send like 10 ppl after Dumbledore in HBP? And basically every single Death Eater he had after Harry in OotP? Voldy isn't even man enough to step up and rock half the time. He hides behind others. Some man
He did commet suicide in a way. He asked Snape to kill him. Snape killed him. Pretty cut and dry. He left Harry to face Voldy cuz he was the only one who could take him out for good. DUH! Voldy didn't intent to take on Dumbledore he intended to bully a child. Dumbledaor came LOOKING for Riddle. He WANTED to face Tom one on one. Tom on the other hand never EVER sought out Dumbledore to fight. Dumbledore had to come to him and even then Tom ran. And i call him a coward cuz he only got bold after Dumbledore died. When Albus was alive Voldy was hiding in the shadows, sending ppl to fight for him. He never intended to face Albus. That was just a happy accident
Hahahahaha that was actually funny. But we both know he used his own death to the advantage of others. He outsmarted Voldy on every level. Had Voldy's righthand man in his pocket. And that child you keep talking about put an end to snake face once and for all.
We don't see tk it's invisible. We see him use it earlier and Harry's wand is disarmed. We also see him swipe his arm and the bubble breaks.
That's completely inaccurate. You're not objective here. I am the only one being objective. The fight ends with Voldemort having dictated the fight to Dumbledore. No one dies. Dumbledore wielded the most powerful wand in existence because he needs it and still looked less powerful against Voldemort.
Voldy left when the backup arrived. Dumbledore knew backup was arriving. That's cowardly. You argue Voldemort hides behind his men when we have it on tape Dumbledore doing the very same thing when confronting Voldemort. If you're the leader you don't go doing every minor little task yourself. Are you very young ? Do you think the general better serves his troops by being at the front of the lines ?
Dumbledore forced a good friend to kill him. Voldemort wouldn't let anyone kill him willingly whereas Dumbledore manipulated a great friend into doing so. Awful. Then he does so all the while knowing Harry has to go up against Voldemort. Voldemort then destroys the killer of Albus. Voldemort owns Albus.
The villain always loses at the end of the day. But the point is Voldemort was greater than anyone in the films. This includes Albus the weak, the fearful, the decrepit. Voldemort scared even Albus. I ask you to watch their battle again but this time I want you to
FOCUS ON ALBUS' EYES. YOU WILL SEE FEAR IN THEM DURING THEIR ENTIRE BATTLE. Be honest about what you see.
So he used his TK and the bubble broke? Then why did the bubble stay intact? All his TK feats are instant so why didn't the bubble take so long to break. You're reaching buddy and you know it. Dumbledore had to stop tossing Voldy around like a rag doll to push Happy. It's that simple.
You are far from objective. You overlook actual events and choose to rely on your opinion. All you want is for Voldy to be more powerful and we clearly see he is not. He would have lost early on if Harry didn't distract Albus and he couldn't pull a win even when he took advantage of the distraction. He did knock over Albus but still couldn't finish the job and that was far less impressive that what Albus did to him.
Cowardly how? He never said HE told the Aurors to come. Just that they were coming. Had he arranged it they most likely would have arrived at the same time. Dumbledore didn't hide behind anything. He knew where Voldy would be and he went straight there. When has Voldy done that???? Never? Oh ok. And now killing the only man that is better/more powerful than you is a minor task? And killing the only person in the whole world that can kill you is minor? And now it's ok to send others after ppl if your name is Voldemort but Dumbledore having the only person capable of killing Vodemort face him is cowardly? Talk about double standards. You Voldemort love blinds you.
He didn't force anyone to do anything. He asked and explained why it needed to happen that way. Snape agreed. He didn't like it but he agreed. And Voldy killing a unprepared man shows his cowardness. He killed Snape before Snape really even knew what was going on.I've never seen ABC logic fail so hard If that's really how you want to play it then all it proves is that Snape>>>>>Voldemort since Voldemort tried his best and failed to even harm Albus yet Snape easily kill Albus.
Vodemort was only second best. He knew it that's why he needed Albus out of the way. He was the most powerful the moment Snape took out Dumbledore. Not before. I already know Dumbledore was afraid for Harry's safety the entire fight which explains the pushes. If you really wanna see fear look at Voldy's face right before he runs away. Classic scaredy cat!
BTW i know you think i like Albus better but in fact i don't. Snape is my favorite HP character followed very closely by Voldyman. But i know the facts and Voldy was inferior to Dumble. Try being unbiased sometime. You might find you like it.
It took a little bit of time to break the tk holding the bubble together. It was enforced by the elder wand mind you.
In direct comparison we see Voldemort as more powerful as well as by pure feats. You want to pretend Dumbledore is more powerful because he uses water bubbles on his opponents. Just like Albus couldn't 'finish off Voldemort in the water bubble. The difference is the entire fight was basically dictated by Voldemort.
Voldemort is the leader which means he doesn't run around performing every task he needs done. He was confronted by Albus and he started the fight not Albus. Yet you call him cowardly. You're so biased it hurts my sacred eyes.
Snape didn't want to do so but he manipulated him into doing so. Albus also said he could protect Harry's mother. Great job Albus you twit. Dumbledore let Snape kill him. Snape was murdered by Voldemort. It took everyone's combined efforts to stop Voldemort and his horcruxes. Voldemort was the main force in these movies. Dumbledore was someone trying to stop Voldemort but he later gave into death. Coward.
No, Voldemort is clearly annoyed. He is looking at Potter while Dumbledore looks on stupidly with fear all over his shitty face. Voldemort was the most powerful and remained so.
You're lying. I bet you're holding your Albus stuffed animal close to your weak heart as I type this.
Oh jeez. Just give it up already. Voldemort was at Albus' mercy.
The entire fight we see Albus easily counter everything Voldy tosses his way. In comparison we see Voldy NOT counter everything Albus did and very get held in midair against his will while flailing like a toon. Win for Albus
If you read carfully i never called him a coward for fighting Dumbledore. He's a coward for hiding in the shadows instead of seeking out Albus for jump. If he was as great as you're claiming he wouldn't have needed to hide and dodge like a rodent
Convincing=/=manipulating. He asked a friend for a favor. Dumbledore was dying. He had no choice about. But he turned his death into a weapon against Voldy. Now that's boss! And at least he wasn't taken out by a child. TWICE!
Annoyed with the FEAR he's feeling! He sees the power residing in Dumbledore and starts pissing himself! Good thing he was wearing black! He took off before the smell of urine stunk up the whole place!
I'll be back Monday to continue to beat down on quanymort
KMC Community Forums
Jan 13th, 2013 05:20 AM
If that's really how you want to play it then all it proves is that Snape>>>>>Voldemort since Voldemort tried his best and failed to even harm Albus yet Snape easily kill Albus. 
