She has but still suffers the same problem in her final duel with darth bane she could focus and only defened against his him. think about about savages raw strenght and mauls skill will overwhelm her.
(their wont be a darkside nexus or tendrils to save her this time)
Well u got me on the savage and Xaj one..........however w/o BM ill say their equal in terms of dueling. why becuase with BM he was pushing her hard. she might be smart enough now but with maul keeping the pressure one she wont be able to think hard enough and plan shell just defend and end up loosing her footing.
Registered: Mar 2014
Location: The Proud Nation of Kekistan
She was prepping her sorcery and was planning on unleashing it while dueling Bane, so I'm pretty sure she can multitask here.
Zannah's dueling abilities have also improved considerably from ROT to DOE, where she went from being on the losing end in a duel with Xaj, to casually stomping a "very good" duelist and holding her own against Bane.
There's also a good possibility that she could just one shot Savage with sorcery from the start and only have to deal with Maul.
__________________
Shadilay my brothers and sisters. With any luck we will throw off the shackles of normie oppression. We have nothing to lose but our chains! Praise Kek!
THE MOTTO IS "IN KEK WE TRUST"
Bane is faster than either Dooku or Maul. Its true that he's not out of Dooku's league. But Yoda isn't out of Dooku's league either so that hardly means anything. He's still superior in combat speed. Which means so is Zannah. She has the advantage over Maul. Savage won't be a factor since she'll one-shot him at the start of the fight with sorcery. Though with her speed she'd have no problems with him in lightsaber combat as well. Dooku was dancing around him.
Kas'im was also watching. And its says that "none of the spectators" followed his movements. Kas'im > AotC Obi-Wan. And if you're watching a duel between Sith you'd obviously need to speed up your perceptions of follow the fight. Besides which, the feat is also impressive since Bane states that it seemed to him that the rest of the world became frozen in time. Plus Bane was only an apprentice at this time and faaaaaaaaar from his peak.
Sorry bro, but Dooku's feat is 100% complete hyperbolic horseshit and your argument against Bane's feat makes absolutely no sense. Zannah saw all the blades like Obi-wan counted how many attacks per second Grievous was doing. I'd think that Jedi and Sith would be capable of instant assessments of their surroundings in a fight. Either way its irrelevant what you think makes sense.
I don't see how that's anywhere near as impressive, considering it's not even a speed feat.
Obviously Bane wouldn't have blitzed them all at the same time since they were all in different areas of the room. He almost blitzed Farfalla and Raskta. But considering that even in PoD he was capable of covering 10 meters instantly he'd be capable of running over and cutting down Worror and/or Johan and Sarro lickidy split as well.
Bane was capable of dodging or swatting aside her attacks.
He was naked from the waist up. And its a faaaaaar greater feat than Vader spinning his freaking saber, lmao.
Yeah i guess so but Savage has gotten better than until his death as well, he is not the same brute swinger he was when he fought dooku.
Also i dont think Savage would get one shotted in a simple force madness attack seeing that he broke from Ventress spell tells me he has will power. Leaving her only with TK in which maul would assist Savage in doing so. leaving her to only defend herself until she looses her footing against the clashing of the Maul brothers blades.
Also she cannot multitask very well yeah she held her own against Bane but that was all she could do was just defend against him.
she only used her tendrils via Nexus and when her focus was no longer on her lightersaber via disarmament.
I know ill get alot of hate from Zannah fans but f/ck IT I dont think her sith sorcery is impressive to me all!!!!! i have read and reread the books and checked the wiki her weakness and battle mentality are still the same here.
Zannah is NOT one of the great lightsaber duelists she is extremely powerful and she has shown herself to be capable of defending herself against great duelists but that was all she did just defend not take command like Sidious or overwhelm or dominate. Her lackluster focus on her surrounding will also effect her fight in this
as well.
Also her illusions are powerful but they only work effectively against someone who has hidden problems and Savage doesnt have any example he killed his own brother without a second though and until his death he never regretted such a manner. so her exploitation's of his inner demons and fears will be nothing not because of savages WILL POWER NO its his MINDSET. He is like A BULL ALL he will do is charge at you!!!! mental attacks wont work because his mind is empty.
Now maul wont work either in my opinion why because his only demons are loosing to Kenobi which will only fuel mauls rage not drive him to swing wildy. And if they do maul would quickly realize that he is dueling a Dark Lady and not Kenobi and will refocus his mind on her allowing Savage and Maul to keep up the pressure until she runs out of HER HUUUUUUGE gas tank.
Savages empty mind full of rage and mauls focus will prevent Zannah from using her spells on top of that she wont be able to focus only react. she can only defend not dominate. Her kills are only on the extremely tired or Nexus attacks.
"However on a personal note as much as i dislike zannah. her over specialization in Form III and skill with it is amazing its f/cking awesome however i cant be on defense forever i like to mix it up.unless im like nihilus then ill defend for days knowing thier would be a big payoff om nom nom nom nooom"
Registered: Mar 2014
Location: The Proud Nation of Kekistan
There is a massive difference between one year of training and ten years of training.
Set Harth had strength of will as well, didn't stop him from being instantly sent into a coma from one of Zannah's weaker spells. I'm pretty sure that if she uses a stronger spell with the intent of destroying his mind, she can bring him down.
She was defending against Bane while charging up her sorcery and preparing to unleash it.
she only used her tendrils via Nexus and when her focus was no longer on her lightersaber via disarmament. [/B][/QUOTE]
__________________
Shadilay my brothers and sisters. With any luck we will throw off the shackles of normie oppression. We have nothing to lose but our chains! Praise Kek!
THE MOTTO IS "IN KEK WE TRUST"
The brothers wipe the floor with Zannah, even if Zannah takes out Savage (which is unlikely) given that it took her time to prep her spell against Bane (on a nexus) Maul overwhelms her with TK or kills her with his skill.
She isn't taking two, she could probably only narrowly take a slim majority against Savage on her best day
__________________ "Happiness is a lie. Life is horror. The light is always dying all across the universe. The last star will flicker out someday, when it does, all that remains is shadow. And I will be its king!"'-Amahl Farouk
Zannah is more than able to rapidly use her sorcery on an opponent. A quick glance away from Sarro gave her the time needed to pwn him and she put Harth into a coma while he was charging her from a few meters away, if that. According to Zannah all it takes is "a simple thought and a gesture."
Savage will be on the ground before the fight even starts. I'd be inclined to say the same for Maul a few seconds later to be honest.
Registered: Mar 2014
Location: The Proud Nation of Kekistan
WHAT?!!!!!
__________________
Shadilay my brothers and sisters. With any luck we will throw off the shackles of normie oppression. We have nothing to lose but our chains! Praise Kek!
THE MOTTO IS "IN KEK WE TRUST"
You made the claim that he was faster than Dooku, which he's not. Not from the feats I'm aware of.
Not faster than Dooku, and so far I'm not convinced he's much faster than Maul.
Yes, Yoda is out of Dooku's league. His speed was such that he forced Dooku on the defensive and later on the retreat, while on a dark side nexus, which decreases a light sider's power and increases a dark sider's power. Their duel in AOTC wasn't Yoda going all out if you consider their force duel, his attachment for Dooku (the Yoda arc in season 6 made it clear that he once had a special relationship and bond with Dooku, and had trouble letting go of attachments), and the fact that Yoda has later went on to fight on par with someone who was capable of downing two swordsmasters with one blow each, and then a third seconds later while at the same time crossing blades with Windu, which is something beyond what Dooku is capable of.
Dooku can hold his own in a saber duel against the likes of Yoda and Sidious, but that doesn't put him in their league. He's not, and neither is Bane.
No, it doesn't. Zannah was having trouble keeping up with Bane's movements, though she did managed to. Just as Anakin was faster than Kenobi, but Kenobi was able to keep up.
Maul was able to outrun and dance around close range blaster bolts from assassin droids. The former he did so while being fired at by over 12 blaster bolts which were coming at him simultaneously. Not seeing how Zannah is Maul's superior in speed.
Only in sorcery. But I'm not convinced she would have time to utilize it mid-duel. Her tendrils are out of the question unless she has an outside source of power to draw from. I'm not sure her illusions would work either considering Maul's willpower. Maul was able to survive being cut in half and grow spider-like legs through sheer will.
In their duel with Sidious, Maul and Savage were pretty coordinated as a team, surrounding Palpatine and attacking him from different sides. Though of course Sidious easily dodged and blocked every attack because he had the speed and strength to do so. Zannah doesn't have Sidious speed or strength. Savage's strength and Maul's aggressiveness and speed would unbalance her. Trying to use her sorcery mid-duel will leave her open for attack. Not to mention she would also be trying to defend against any TK attacks from Maul and Savage, both or whom are more powerful TK users than her.
Savage had more training from Maul since then.
In sheer skill, perhaps. Reaction speed, no.
I was going off of your claim that it took them seconds to register his movements, which seemingly suggests that they were caught by surprise by his speed.
If Kas'im was having trouble keeping up with a mere student's speed, then he's really not all that good, which isn't surprising considering how much Bane talked down on the sith of his time.
No, Zannah seeing twelve blades that are moving in different angles makes absolutely no sense, unless Bane is targeting the same 12 areas in the same exact order over and over again. If that's what he was doing then he is a very predictable fighter. Again, it's not like Bane was waving his saber in front of him in a single sequence. The author had Zannah throw out a large number to indicate that she was seeing a bunch of after images and was having trouble keeping up with his movements with her eyes alone. That was the message the author was trying to convey. There's no way she was calculating 12 sabers throughout an entire duel.
Regarding Kenobi vs Grievous, the narration just states that Grievous was throwing 20 strikes per second, which couldn't have been coming from Kenobi's POV, considering his defenses were being overloaded, so he wouldn't have had the time to count how many strikes Grievous was throwing per second, while trying to defend against those attacks.
What do you think Dooku relied on to evade and block attacks from three different force users? A shield? How do you think he was capable of landing physical attacks on them? Obviously he had to have been outpacing them. It's impressive in that Dooku was unable to use the force to view time in slow motion, considering he was blind and drugged, which would obviously blunt his reaction speed quite a bit. He had to rely on precognition alone (and even that may have been blunted, considering he was unable to sense the presence of his former apprentice, and mother Talzin stating something about the drug dampening his force senses), and was still kicking ass until Ventress used a force push on him.
Again, Dooku was severely handicapped in his duel with the nightsisters. He had no advantage as Bane did against the strike team.
So they weren't attacking him all at once?
I was under the impression that he would have cut them down quickly. Same way Dooku would have likely cut Kenobi down quickly had Anakin not been there, but they were attacking Dooku at the same time, Kenobi was never far apart from Anakin while fighting Dooku. And this was Kenobi at his peak, near the events of ROTS. Were any of the masters on the strike team against Bane on Kenobi's level?
Can you provide the passage, or do I have to find that Russian site to download it?
Also, speedblitz to me is when one is completely unable to register the speed of his opponent, as was the case when Sidious cut Kolar and Tiin Down.
Again, Bane's body was almost entirely covered so he wouldn't have to put much use in defensive speed. Swatting aside her attacks can be done while fighting offensively. This is why I find Dooku's duel against the nightsisters more impressive as far as combat speed. Dooku had his entire body to protect, and he did so casually while drugged and blind, plus he managed to land plenty of physical attacks on his opponents despite his handicap.
That's basically what Bane was doing when blocking the downpour: forming a shield. It's the only way the feat makes sense. It's not speed feat beyond Vader's, who was incapable of outpacing Maul. Not seeing how Bane would be much faster than Maul, considering that Bane somewhat implied that it was his best speed performance, given that that's what he was testing and once thought impossible.
As I said, Maul has danced around over 12 blaster bolts that were being fired at his entire body simultaneously, which is a speed feat I find more impressive than Bane's rain feat, considering Maul didn't use his saber, and the fact that blaster bolts travel far faster than rain.
Bane is fast, but putting him up their with Yoda and Sidious is wanking him a bit too much.
__________________ "The power of the dark side is an illness no true Sith would wish to be cured of" -Darth Plagueis
To be entirely honest, Maul's feats as far as speed goes aren't any lesser than Dooku's, either--He's moved imperceptibly fast to security cameras, produced webbing tapestries of light behind his blade, appeared to be in three places at once, and he's dodged blaster fire from at least a dozen shooters.
That said, I consider all three of them to be on the same tier as far as speed goes--Bane actually might be the fastest of them, though, but like you I'm not truly convinced of that.
I agree Yoda is a head and shoulders above Dooku, but during their battle on Vjun, Yoda's advantage was very slim, and Dooku scored two strikes on Yoda during the course of the battle.
Agreed completely.
Maul is definitely one of the strongest willed characters in the Star Wars mythos.
To be fair, Kas'im was the singular Sith of Bane's day that the latter recognized as an extremely formidable warrior.
No, but it's definitely arguable that Raskta Lsu was even stronger than Kenobi when her prowess was amplified by Worror's Battle Meditation. In terms of dueling prowess, that is.
I don't think it was quite that simple. I see it being more like a heightened scale bolt deflection feat.
Right, and Cade Skywalker has done this too. Bane's feat is great, especially because he was able to keep it up for several minutes, but it's not something that's out of the league of the upper tier Jedi/Sith.
Yep.
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Last edited by NewGuy01 on Jun 6th, 2014 at 01:16 AM
Maul's best speed feat is appearing in multiple places at once, which no one has ever actually posted here, so I'm inclined to believe its just as bullshit as what you said Dooku's feat of appearing in multiple places was.
What I meant by 'out of his league' is that he would be too fast for Dooku to compete. The fact that Dooku can hold his own in a duel with them proves that he is in their league, by my definition.
Zannah wasn't having trouble keeping up with his speed though. The only time she struggled with it was after she tripped and he'd stomped on her and broken her ribs.
And Zannah was able to visually track a lightning bolt as if passed her as well as is equal to or close to Bane in speed.
Then allow me to convince you:
"As he drew near, she responded not with physical violence, but rather with a powerful spell of Sith sorcery that attacked Set's mind. He tried to throw up a protective Force barrier in response, but Zannah's power shredded his defenses, leaving him completely vulnerable.
Sith sorcery was as much a part of the dark side as the deadly violet bolts of energy her Master unleashed from his hands, and when Bane had first recognized her talent for the subtle but devastating magics he had encouraged her studies into the arcane. From ancient texts she had learned to twist and torment the thoughts of her enemies. She could make them see nightmares as reality; she could cause their deepest fears to manifest as demons of the psyche. She could, and had, rip the minds of her enemies apart with a simple thought and a gesture.
With Set, however, she did not intend to destroy him completely. Instead she enveloped him in a cloud of utter despair and hopelessness. She reached into the innermost recesses of his mind and wrapped it in the nothingness of the void.
Set's eyes went blank, his jaw hung slack, and his lightsaber slipped from nerveless fingers. He slowly slumped to the ground, his eyes closing and his body trembling slightly as he curled up into a fetal position."
For context, Harth was very close to Zannah when he charged her. She'd kicked him in the throat and he'd staggered back a bit but he would still be at best a few meters away. As Zannah says, she can perform the spell with only a simple thought and gesture. She can use it in combat easily.
As to your other arguments, you have to be kidding. Zannah is not only above Maul in sorcery. She's more powerful than him as well and even if he should be near her in speed, he will never get through her defenses.
Even if Maul has high levels of will power, he still has nothing on Bane who barely resisted Zannah's attack. Especially since Maul himself attributes his survival on the Sidious' teachings, not his willpower.
Because Sidious was also moving around and letting them flank him. We know that Zannah's go-to strategy is to hug a corner to block off attempts at flanking her when fighting multiple opponents.
Leave herself open? She would use it right off the bat to down Savage before either of them got close enough for her to be vulnerable. All it takes is a gesture, which is easy to pull off in a duel. Maul has done it. Or she could just do what she did to Bane, backflip or leap away to give herself distance.
I just about pissed myself at Maul and Savage being more powerful in TK than her. Thanks for that, I needed the laugh.
You mean when Maul casually owned him and stood on his face? Obi-Wan and Adi Gallia were also ducking and waving through his attacks. And Dooku is still faster than Savage and would be able to dance around him after his "training" nonetheless.
Pretty much, yeah. Kas'im was appearing to wield 6 lightsabers instead of 2 to Bane in his duel with him.
I was paraphrasing. The actual quote is:
"For an instant none of the spectators was even aware of what had happened; it took their minds a moment to catch up and register the blur of action that had occurred so much quicker than their eyes could see."
Don't forget that Bane has charged up his power before doing the feat. Bane would be a bit faster than normal at the time, though obviously still nowhere near his later speed, even with the charge.
Also Kas'im was the best duelist of his era, only rivaled by Raskta. He's legit, as even Newguy admits.
No, it makes complete sense since Bane would be moving so fast that she'd be seeing all of his different attacks at the same time, and he would thus appear to be wielding a dozen lightsabers. I don't understand at all why he would need to be attacking the same places for that to happen, that doesn't make any logical sense at all. Besides which the narration says that he was attacking her from all angles and was attacking her like a wild animal. Zannah was simply seeing a bunch of afterimages or whatever you want to call it and had the situational awareness to count how many she was seeing, similar to how highly trained soldiers can instantly tell how many enemy combatants there are with a quick glance.
Except that it's Obi-Wan's point of view at the time, so it's not just coming from the narration. If you want to go down that route then I'd say the same about Zannah, that the narration simple supplied the exact numbers Zannah was seeing but couldn't count since he defenses were being overloaded as well.
Stop trying to dismiss a valid feat just because you don't like it. You have no basis for argument here. It is a superior feat to anything Dooku or Maul have ever done. And DoE Bane is even faster than he was there. Zannah > Maul in speed, accept it.
His senses and skill. Speed wouldn't allow him to evade and block their attacks if he didn't know where they were coming from. He would just be flailing around. We see in the fight that he isn't beating them through speed, but is simply able to anticipate their every attack and respond with his peerless skill. It's a feat of power, that even with the drug he is able to sense all their attacks and respond. you know, before he peeters out.
Also just because he was blind doesn't mean anything. We know that Jedi are trained to fight without relying on their visual sense, aka Luke training in ANH. In the Bane trilogy its stated that duels are mostly too fast to track with your eyes. The attacks are too fast to follow with your eyes and react to individually, so you need to react with instinct and training guided by your force senses and precognition. Dooku even says "I do not need my eyes to see you, Jedi."
Not all the Strike Team attacked Bane. 2 of them attacked Zannah and one of them used Battle Meditation.
Raskta definitely is on Kenobi's level. She's more skilled than he is and has killed more Sith Lords than the Thought Bomb. Farfalla was the second in command of the army after Hoth and his form was described as 'perfect'. Also he killed a Sith Lord who blitzed the finest soldiers in the Republic.
"He would have plowed straight into Raskta, trampling her under his heavy boots, had she not cartwheeled to the side at the last possible instant.
Bane never stopped, his momentum carrying him straight toward Farfalla. The Jedi Master had a moment to register the strange armor coat of hard, shiny shells he wore beneath his clothes. Then he, too, leapt to the side to avoid being crushed, surviving only because his reflexes were heightened by Worror's power."
Both Raskta and Farfalla only managed to get out of the way at the last instant due to their increased reflexes.
Except Bane was ducking and weaving around her attacks aimed at his head and slapping them aside with his arm.
I don't want to get into this discussion again. Suffice to say that Bane was again, ducking and weaving and dodging individual drops and that its not the only way he could be doing the feat. His lightsaber couldn't form a shield big enough to cover his whole body.
Maul and Dooku are fast too. Just not Bane and Zannah fast.
Neph, I'll get to all that later. And for the record, I never once tried to dismiss Bane's 12 blade feat. It's you who always dismisses feats or concepts (hint: force nexuses) when you don't like them. That Obi Wan was unable to place an exact number as to where Dooku appeared to be, and instead used the exaggerated term "everywhere at once," would imply that Kenobi, despite having heightened reflexes, was unable to calculate the number of locations Dooku appeared to be. It's the same way one jedi compared Vader's speed to Yoda's. It's not that Vader is as fast as Yoda, it's just that the jedi in particular was unable to place an exact number as to how fast Vader was moving, simply because Vader was moving faster than his eyes were able to follow. It makes more sense than a force user calculating the amount of sabers there appeared to be throughout an entire duel, and then giving off an exact number, while at the same time trying to defend herself against the attacks from those "12 sabers."
__________________ "The power of the dark side is an illness no true Sith would wish to be cured of" -Darth Plagueis
Jun 5th, 2014 02:03 AM
