Yeah, I've actually posted the scans of Mangog ripping him apart easily before, but I don't think I've ever seen scans of Orikal's power on the forums, so...
Too much Odin wanking here. First thing first, I'm not saying Validus wins against Odin. In a physical confrontation though? He would beat the shit out of Mangog and Odin together.
WTF kind of logic is that? Mangog hasn't even destroyed a planet let alone stated to be able to destroy galaxies. He isn't even 10 times as strong as Thor going by their showings and you're wanking the shit out of him like he's an abstarct or something. Yet being billions of times stronger than entire LOSH and fatal Five means Sun eater is just trans? But I like how you consider being stronger than LOSH and Fatal Five means you're just trans. A billion times stronger than post-crisis Superman would make you nigh-abstract, let alone pre-crisis Superboy. Just look at H/P Doomsday. But since Thor was stated to be stronger than Odin and actually overpowered him in strength in Thor 291, I'd reconsider that. Just recently Odin pounded on him in Fear Itself and Thor wasn't even KOED. But we would forget that and pretend that Odin is somehow billions of times stronger than PC Superboy. Hilarious.
Taking a cue from yourself, here is Darkseid compared to Time-Trapper and Infinite Man.
How is being billions of times more powerful than LOSH+Fatal Five is supposed to be below Odin level? Odin isn't that much powerful comapred to Thor, let alone the entire LOSH combined. If you think he is, I'd like to see the scene where he is stated to be above Thor by that margin. Or do you think Thor is comparable to Validus now?
Because he can't do that as Validus isn't his creation?
And Thor defeated Ego in Thor 131. So Thor>Ego>Galactus and then Galactus almost killed Thor so Galactus>Thor>Ego. C'mon man.
And again got killed by Thor. So Thor>Orikal>Odin. Makes perfect sense.
And here is Odin, Zeus and Vishnu combined attacking with the force which can reel a planet out of its orbit.
Add eternity using every bit of its power to destroy a planet/LT's most powerful attack being a supernova/above supernova attacks from Celestials turning Destroyer into slag. I wonder where Odin's galaxy busting went against Celestials?
No, its not. This is his average against marvel top tiers is.
Superman wasn't even moved by a Hulk who was growing geometrically stronger by the second (2x stronger by every second). Compare how Mangog fared against Thor who at best is equal to average savage Hulk.
I don't know what's your point? That everyone has got low points? Should I start mentioning Odin's low points?
And that's relevant how?
Have we?
By a surprise attack. A surprise attack from Superboy, Mon-El and Ultra-Boy would KTFO Odin too.
Thor overpowered Odin in Thor 291. So?
Odin and Surtur were killed by Odin's suicide atatck which didn't even destroy the city they were in. So?
In physical power? He is above Odin who at one point was stated to be weaker than Thor.
So, highfather is universal level in power and base Darkseid has been stated to be his equal? Good to know. Why is that when Odin does a feat and Mangog is considered to be uber but when Highfather does a feat, it makes Darkseid weaker?
By rebounding his own power. That happens all the time.
Able to take on entire LOSH and winning? Compared to time trapper and Infinite Man?
He isn't. He is in the same league though.
Just like using odin as an example to how uber Mangog is when mangog has conceded that he's no odin?
And I've seen no reason to believe Validus wouldn't pound Odin into paste if its goes into h2h. Because mangog, orikal and universe buster!!!! LOLZ!
Gender: Male Location: The Throne Of The House Of El
It is the scenario that makes the fight the most interesting.
The other point is that Odin is the only one who can essentially attack without any physical confrontation whatsoever. The other combatants would be in a hand to hand struggle.
Gorr's Necroblade against Grundy and Doomsday provides room for some interesting arguments.
Grundy is already dead so what can the Necroblade do to him?
When Amazo battled Grundy the death within Gold started to corrupt Amazo's body.
H/P Doomsday should tank the Blade given his performance.
He never evolved past physical damage. He was hurt the entire arc. They wanted to stop the resurrection of him and the process which is why they took him to the end of time.
I disagree with everything else you've said here but you haven't supported it just made baseless claims.
His argument on Grundy vs the Necroblade is because Grundy is already dead. I haven't read the comics, but based on what LoB posted, I would think the Necroblade only worked on the living. Is he correct? If so, I can't see it doing much to Grundy.
And for the record, Colossal Boy didn't do "just fine" like operator is saying. He had a few times where he looked good in largely separate instances, but arguably from sneak attack. His first attack you could argue staggered Validus, but then immediately got his ass kicked while the narration talked about how he wasn't a match for Validus. If anything it's the fact that Colossal Boy was still conscious is the lowball for Validus.
__________________ Bluewaterrider: "I'm surprised that a Skyfather like Zeus defeated Hulk when Zeus' Top-Tier son Hercules has lost to Hulk."
Uh, you're right. Being billions of times stronger than them and being trans doesn't make sense. Which is why im not asking you to take that statement literally. But its implication is quite clear. Sun Eater dwarfs them, which is why they had to amp themselves. Perhaps it's not "billions" of times more powerful than them, but well above them for sure.
And i even said that Sun Eater could be regarded as skyfather level depending on the way you look at it. Either way though, Sun Eater is not on Odin's level (high skyfather) and still well above Validus.
And yeah, Thor giving Odin a fight is a low showing for Odin, which is also weird. Since Odin was willing to kill Thor yet Thor was holding his own for a while, despite the fact that before that story Odin has outright depowered Thor instantly from Asgard (while Thor was on Earth). He's depowered Thor in JiM #101, JiM #113, Thor #145 previously, so he could've done the same thing instead of fighting and then kill Thor (which he eventually did not of course, but that's besides the point).
Scan #1: White witch saying "Not since Darkseid have i seen so much power" is a reference to GDS, where Darkseid was amped.
Scan #2: In the Legion continuity Darkseid is best known for GDS (where he was amped), and that's what made him so dangerous a foe. So the bio saying "he's a foe in Darkseid's class" is true as far as threat level goes. Because in GDS, Darkseid amped himself to a point where he could become a TT level foe (not to mention that's a 1988 bio and TT later had more feats)
There's a similar statement in an '87 bio; which also states that he's a peer of Darkseid, but goes on to say that his personal abilities are not known:
So they're referring to his threat level given that they don't know the extent of his personal power. After all, in his very first appearances TT looked like a weakling, and used tech to battle the Legionnaires. And Darkseid was such a high level threat only because he amped himself.
And Odin defeated Mangog as well. In the same arc no less, and while he possessed the Odinsword.
Because Validus is no Mangog.
Lowballing?
So pointing out that Validus was confirmed to be below 2 trans level characters (or skyfather in Sun Eater's case, it's debatable imo) is lowballing?
And pointing out that pulling a galaxy worth of planets is not Superboy's average is lowballing too?
But i guess just because im arguing against the DC side, i must be lowballing them.
Already addressed. Let's not repeat ourselves in various quotes.
You'll notice that I was referring to Mangog when i said that. Prof. T.C McAbe was asking why would Odin not use time stop, i said that why would he need to do that given that he can cut him from his power source.
Well that, and he rarely uses that power. Because the same can be said for Thor, who can also stop time in a limited area, and he could do that in the Mangog time period. Thor froze Odin once in Thor #198 so that Hela couldn't claim him, and also froze a limited area in JiM #110. (Mjolnir's time capabilities were later drained though).
Prof. T.C McAbe apparently thought that given that Odin didn't use time stop on Mangog, he can't use it on Validus. Which he can, but wouldn't need to.
133 you mean.
And it's not like Thor was facing Ego face to (world-big) face. He was inside him, and Ego was fighting him with some anti bodies, then Thor freed himself from Ego, he did some damage, but nothing permanent.
Well he actually didn't.
Those are different scenarios from the ones concerning Superman.
Regardless of its capability of causing collateral damage, the key is in the power of the blast itself. For example, PR Owen blasted Beyonder with a multiverse-busting attack and it didn't even destroy the building they were in.
Well actually i never argued Thor > PC Superman/Superboy. In fact i believe it's the opposite. But that doesn't mean we have to blow PC characters out of proportion like Prof. is doing.
And if this is your way of saying that Mangog sucked then i already gave 2 reasons apart from Mangog handling Odin, with which we can gauge his power. And it makes sense to be comparable to Odin. It's also been stated on panel.
You would understand the point if you followed the discussion instead of jumping blindly to defend Superboy.
Prof. T.C McAbe was using the Superboy #140 feat as some sort of an average feat for Superboy, and then applying it to Mon-el and Ultra-boy as well.
By mentioning those showings from the same title where Superboy performed this uber feat, i was explaining to him that it's definitely not his average .
Simple.
A one-shot surprise attack.
And no, it won't KO Odin too.
Already addressed the overpowering part earlier.
I was never arguing about physical power in particular. Though i can also make an argument about it since Odin can easily alter his size to a point where he dwarfs planets.
Yeah, like JiM #94, one of Odin's very first appearances.
In any case, i never said that Odin is without low showings. When we consider average showings of Odin and Validus, Odin's is clearly far better.
Dude, are you paying attention or not? Even if Highfather was universal level in power (which he most definitely isn't), he was near powerless in that instance.
Let's start with Highfather being universal in power. Where are you getting that exactly? Because his best feat was in New Gods #14, where he one-shotted the individuals through which Beldam manifested. And one of those individuals was easily handling Orion. Highfather one-shotted them all while he was in New Genesis, which at that same time period (in Mr Miracle v1 #19, 21) was confirmed to be beyond all time and space.
this is impressive, but not universal level. He's a Trans-level character, just like Darkseid.
Unto being weakened though. Given that it's the 3rd time this is getting ignored, i might as well post scans to confirm this.
The Adventure Comics #459-460 story was a continuation from where New Gods #19 left off. And Highfather was near powerless in that instance. Read what he says in NG #18:
He attacked and staggered Validus, then Validus punched him and kicked him twice, after which he stood and punched Validus yet again and survived a psychic assault from his as well.
That's what doing fine against Validus means for someone like Colossal Boy. He did better than what Mon-el or Superboy did in other instances.
I don't see "effecting with sucker punches/while Validus was distracted" and enduring a beating as "doing fine." I can't really say for sure he sneak attacked Validus(or Validus was distracted) the third time, but since he couldn't do anything when we know Validus was aware of him, I feel like it's consistent with what was shown before that CB caught Validus unaware.
As for the mental assault, I don't know how powerful Validus' mental blasts are supposed to be, but for what it's worth he also appears to be getting attacked by Saturn Girl at the same time he's blasting Colossal Boy. CB was also down from the assault until the Fatal Five left.
__________________ Bluewaterrider: "I'm surprised that a Skyfather like Zeus defeated Hulk when Zeus' Top-Tier son Hercules has lost to Hulk."
KMC Community Forums
Jul 30th, 2014 02:16 AM
Bluewaterrider: "I'm surprised that a Skyfather like Zeus defeated Hulk when Zeus' Top-Tier son Hercules has lost to Hulk."
You, you--you.....YOU are voting against WB Hulk? 
