Dave Filoni has no say on Luke's character. He was linked to 0% percent of it.
The fact he is "not really" ready to fight Darth Vader doesn't change anything. The movie and the comics showed that he was still able to duel him with equal power.
If George Lucas said something along the lines of "he is not yet on Darth Vader's power", that would be a different story obviously. He didn't though.
__________________ "There is only Revan. Only he can shape this galaxy as it is meant to be shaped."
That's pretty much exactly what Lucas said. You're really stretching here.
And not only is Filoni is a creator of SW canon in both the OT and PT era, but he consulted with Lucas daily for the last 10 years. So he's actually one of the top most knowledgeable people at Lucasfilm when it comes to Official Star Wars Canon.
So I'm afraid his opinion counts for a lot more than whoever wrote the ROTJ Comic and Novel 25 years ago.
Your the one stretching it bro. "Not really equipped"=/="weaker."
I can be "not really equipped" for an exam, yet still get a good grade on it.
Even Palpatine in Dark Empire Audio Drama praises Luke for beating Darth Vader.
Except when they talked, it was concerning The Clone Wars, an era with really nothing to do with Luke Skywalker. It's not like they talked about Return of the Jedi or anything.
__________________ "There is only Revan. Only he can shape this galaxy as it is meant to be shaped."
I never really understood those quotes. They do not make any sense. In ESB Vader and Yoda clearly state that Luke is not a Jedi and is not ready to face Vader. In ROTJ they clearly state that Luke is ready and that his skills are complete.
Either GL and Filoni do not know what they hell they are saying or they have retcon the whole scripts from ESB and ROTJ.
Yoda: No! Unfortunate that you rushed to face him... that incomplete was your training. That... not ready for the burden were you.
Yoda: No more training do you require. Already know you, that which you need.
Luke: Then I am a Jedi.
Yoda: No. Not yet. One thing remains. Vader. You must confront Vader. Then, only then, a Jedi will you be. And confront him you will.
Darth Vader: I see you have constructed a new light saber. Your skills are complete. Indeed you are powerful as the Emperor has foreseen.
My take: Luke was not a fully trained Jedi, however he had master the fundamentals of being a Jedi and using the force to a degree that he was now able to face Vader. Most of all he had the raw power to face Vader with the amount of training that he had. Raw power that he was able to tap into.
Registered: Mar 2014
Location: The Proud Nation of Kekistan
"Shut the **** up!" is the first response that comes to my mind every time some one utters the word "Zonakin."
__________________
Shadilay my brothers and sisters. With any luck we will throw off the shackles of normie oppression. We have nothing to lose but our chains! Praise Kek!
THE MOTTO IS "IN KEK WE TRUST"
LOL What do you think "Not really equipped" means? You think it means he was missing a Lightsaber or something?
The fact that he later states he's only HALF TRAINED should make the context completely clear for you, if it wasn't already.
If you're not equipped to take an exam it's unlikely you will do well.
Stop stretching his meaning. It's pretty clear cut what he's saying there.
Which is exactly why the previous EU has been written out of official canon now under Disney and given the separate "Legends" title. Because there were simply too many contradictions. Official canon and the statements from the Creators of Official Canon comes first bro, even if you insist on sticking with quotes from Legends.
In one of those quotes he was talking about Luke's mission in the OT He's talked about how TCW effects the overall Star Wars saga including the OT plenty and talked about Luke's "true mission" plenty.
Last edited by Darth Thor on Aug 16th, 2014 at 09:20 AM
Him being half trained is completely irrelevant.
Revan was only a padawan when he killed Malak.
Kun was only a padawan when he beat Vodo and left the Order.
Anakin was only a padawan in AotC when he fought Dooku.
All these characters would be half-trained, pretty much.
---- ---- ----
"Not really equipped" is incredibly vague. It can be referring to either the "physical" or "emotional" challenges. Maybe both.
Luke overcame his emotional challenges, despite briefly giving into temptation. You could classify this as "not really" since that phrase isn't a completely declaration.
In terms of the physical challenge, numerous sources suggest they fought as equals, with Luke gaining the advantage thanks to his rage.
"Not really" expresses polite doubt. It is neither a definite "yes" nor "no". It's way to vague to automatically retcon so many sources, even if you like it or not.
Ah, so you want to talk about canon quotes then? Very well.
"On the Death Star, Luke and Vader are locked in battle. Vader tempts Luke, saying that if he will not be turned to the dark side, perhaps his sister --Leia -- will. Luke surges with the Force, gaining an advantage on Vader and cutting off the Sith Lord's hand.
"When Vader suggested that Leia could be turned to evil, Luke embraced his rage and pummeled his father relentlessly -- giving the Emperor exactly what he wanted. But before he delivered the killing blow, Luke paused, remembering his teachings."
"The Emperor taunted and tempted Luke, leading to a final duel between Vader and his son. Giving in to his hate, Luke overpowered Vader, cutting off his hand and was poised to deliver the killing blow."
"Luke gave in, leading to a duel with Vader that saw him nearly kill his father in anger"
--Star Wars.com: Databanks
He says he would never beat Vader with a lightsaber, yet we see Luke clearly beat Vader...with a lightsaber. (please log in to view the image)
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The second Dave quote is said the same about Grievous and the Jedi Council, and that any Jedi on the Council could beat Grievous. Sadly enough: (please log in to view the image) (please log in to view the image) (please log in to view the image)
He was also beating Obi-Wan Kenobi in this fight: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Ja7rgrRNHU
__________________ "There is only Revan. Only he can shape this galaxy as it is meant to be shaped."
Didn't Kun beat an Unarmed Vodo, lashing out at him with 2 Lightsabers?
Anakin got his ass kicked by Dooku in AOTC. Don't know anything about Revan and really don't care.
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You can stretch the meaning as much as you want to mean whatever you want. Doesn't take away that Lucas is flat out saying there that Luke doesn't have enough training to compete with Vader.
And which of those quotes is made by a Creator of "Official Canon."
Those quotes have all been thrown into the Legends material. And I'm completely fine discussing Legends material, as long as you accept precedence must be given to Lucas and Offical creators of Canon.
Yeah because his Dad didn't want to hurt him. Just wanted Luke to join him. "Your thoughts betray you Father. I feel the good in you, the conflict."
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He said Greivous isn't a match for any Jedi Council Master under fair circumstances. That fight wasn't fair, because all the Jedi (were stated in the next episode) to have been exhausted from the previous battle. Which is when Grievous will take advantage.
And btw the Clone War mini was revamped by TCW series anyway.
Wow talk about selective vision. At 2:35 Kenobi soundly defeats Grievous who then runs for his life. In a fight which Grievous began with the aid of 2 Magnaguards, and then fought Kenobi in a cramped space which benefits Grievous. And still Kenobi clearly won.
No one ever said Grievous can't even land a hit on a Jedi Master, or that he can't defeat one under "UNFAIR" Circumstances.
Last edited by Darth Thor on Aug 18th, 2014 at 01:34 PM
Kenobi can likely not get blitzed in the opening moves, Luke...not so much, especially when Filoni puts him below the Councilors. He's likely at or below Grievous in raw sabers.
And yes Filoni is a canon authority. Given that TCWs is basically G-canon now his statements are second only to Lucas'. I lol at people who take Drew Karpshyan's statements as evidence but don't lean credence to a man who's for all intents and purposes George Lucas for a G-canon project.
Registered: Mar 2014
Location: The Proud Nation of Kekistan
Please don't tell me you have every Jedi Councilor above Luke and Grievous.
__________________
Shadilay my brothers and sisters. With any luck we will throw off the shackles of normie oppression. We have nothing to lose but our chains! Praise Kek!
THE MOTTO IS "IN KEK WE TRUST"
Every one? No. But Agen Kolar has the feats to put them both down. He's like a more badass aggressive version of Eeth Koth, who put Grievous on his ass with a broken arm.
Grievous is able to hold his own against Mace Windu in Coruscant: ""Grievous," Mace grumbled. Kit glanced at him. "Here we go again."
Hurrying into the vestibule between the two lead cars, they launched themselves to the roof. Three cars distant marched General Grievous and two of his elite droids, their capes snapping behind them in the wind, pulse-tipped batons angled across their barrel chests. Farther back, clamped by animal-like claws to the roof of the train, was the gunboat from which the frightful trio had been released.
Without pausing, Grievous drew two lightsabers from inside his billowing cloak. By the time they were ignited, Mace was already on and all over the cyborg, batting away at the two blades, swinging low at Grievous's artificial legs, thrusting at his skeletal face. The lightsabers thrummed and hissed, meeting one another in bursts of dazzling light. In a corner of Mace's mind he wondered to which Jedi Grievous's blades had belonged. Just as the Force was keeping Mace from being blown from the mag-lev's roof, magnetism of some sort was keeping the general fastened in place. For the cyborg, though, the coherence hindered as much as it helped, whereas Mace never remained in one place for very long. Again and again the three blades joined, in snarling attacks and parries.
As Mace already knew from Ki-Adi-Mundi and Shaak Ti, Grievous was well trained in the Jedi arts. He could recognize the hand of Dooku in the general's training and technique. His strikes were as forceful as any Mace had ever had to counter, and his speed was astonishing. But he didn't know Vaapad - - the technique of dark flirtation in which Mace excelled. To the rear of the car, where Grievous's pair of MagnaGuards had made the mistake of pitting themselves against Kit Fisto, the Nautolan's blade was a cyclone of blazing blue light. Resistant to the energy outpourings of a lightsaber, the phrik alloy staffs were potent weapons, but like any weapon they needed to find their target, and Kit simply wasn't allowing that.
In moves a Twi'lek dancer might envy, he spun around the guards, claiming a limb from both with each rotation: left legs, right arms, right legs... The speed of the train saw to the rest, ultimately whisking the droids into the canyon like insects blown from the windscreen of a speeder bike. The loss of his confederates was noted by whatever computers were slaved to Grievous's organic brain, but the loss neither distracted nor slowed him. His sole setting was attack. Successful at analyzing Mace's lightsaber style, those same computers suggested that Grievous alter his stance and posture, along with the angle of his parries, ripostes, and thrusts.
The result wasn't Vaapad, but it was close enough, and Mace wasn't interested in prolonging the contest any longer than necessary. Crouching low, he angled the blade downward and slashed, guiding it through the roof of the car, perpendicular to Grievous's stalwart advance. Mace saw by the surprised look in the cyborg's reptilian eyes that, for all his strength, dexterity, and resolve, the living part of him wasn't always in perfect sync with his alloy servos.
Clearly, Grievous - - onetime courageous commander of sentient troops - - realized what Mace had done and wanted to sidestep, where General Grievous - - current commander of droids and other war machines - - wanted nothing more than to impale Mace with lunging thrusts of the paired blades. Slipping into the gap made by Mace's saber, Grievous's left talon lost magnetic purchase on the roof, and the general faltered. Mace came out of his crouch prepared to drive his sword into Grievous's guts, but some last-instant firing of the general's cybersynapses compelled the cyborg's torso through a swift half twist that would have sent Mace's head hurtling into the canyon had the maneuver prevailed.
Instead Mace leapt backward, out of the range of the slicing blades, and Force-pushed outward, just at the instant of Grievous's single misstep. Off the side of the car the general went, twisting and turning as he fell, Mace trying to track the general's contorted plunge, but unsuccessfully. Had he fallen into the canyon? Had he managed to dig his duranium claws into the side of the car or grab hold of the mag-lev rail itself?"
Ah, and Grievous is able to hard-press even Count Dooku:
"And as to the general's combat skills, few, if any, Jedi would be capable of defeating him. There had been moments during the extensive combat sessions when even Dooku had been hard-pressed to outduel the cyborg."
Nah, the Battle of Hypori is still canonical.
Are you serious? Grievous was bluntly pushing Kenobi backwards, in fact Kenobi runs away from him at 2:24. Kenobi getting a cheap-shot by throwing a droid at him doesn't equate to a victory.
__________________ "There is only Revan. Only he can shape this galaxy as it is meant to be shaped."
And he's still creating new Canon with Rebels. And of all the Rebels creators he's the one whose considered the Expert in Star Wars canon due to his decade of work with George Lucas on TCW.
He's also the main one of the Rebels creators who has regular meetings with creators of the films and other new SW Canon to make sure there's no conflict or contradiction.
Yep that's how I remember it. Kun's 2 Lightsabers vs Vodo's 1 stick.
It was clear he wasn't a match for Vodo yet under fair circumstances.
Is this a joke?
He says Luke isn't fully equipped to tackle Vader because he never completed his training.
You're making that line mean just about anything you want. except it's literal meaning, which was Luke was no match for Vader due to his lack of training.
It's not rocket science.
When was that databank updated? And who was it updated by?
Urrm... Because Vader allows him to. Was Vader there to test his own powers or to turn Luke to the Darkside? I don't see what's so difficult to understand. It seems you lack the concept of proper context.
Revamped by TCW where Ventress beats Grievous alone, in pure Sabers, without even resorting to TK. And Filoni confirms Grievous isn't match for a Jedi of Ventress's caliber. Next..
You've already conceded it's retconned. Next..
Mace won.
Grievous put up a good fight once in what wasn't exactly a normal terrain.
So what?
Grievous canonically is no match for Maul, forget Mace. Heck he's no match for Ventress.
So what are you trying to prove? How does any of this negate the fact that the Creators of Official Canon are all saying ROTJ Luke was no match for Vader?!
Read above. And Dooku listed a load of Council members who Grievous would lose to. But IIRC he didn't list Fisto who spanked Grievous's butt in "Lair of Grievous."
And when Dooku thought he beat Fisto, he said something like "You beat a true Jedi Master. Now that's impressive." To which Grievous responded... "Urm well no"
LOL You're just changing the meaning of everything and seeing what you want to, and reading what you want to. So I'm done.
Kenobi backing off in the middle fight in a cramped space just to re-engage him a few seconds later is not Losing a frigging fight.
And LOL at cheap shot. So it's cheap to throw objects at your opponent? So I guess Dooku is continually throwing cheap shots.
You don't think it was cheap of Grievous to fight Kenobi with the aid of a Magnaguard but you think Kenobi using the Force on him when stuck with a giant like Grievous in a cramped space is somehow cheap?
Go throw your "Grievous WON, even though he got battered and ran for his life.." shit someplace else. I'm done with your Grievous and ROTJ Luke Wankery.
Aug 15th, 2014 04:18 PM
"Not really equipped"=/="weaker."
All those quotes are under Disney's new canon. None of them are Legends. 
Very well then, though they could be exhausted for a year and that would not equate to the slaughter they received.
