Well the fact that he beat him in the first second then allowed he and his brother to compete while laughing his ass off sure indicates it. As does Sidious pushing back Maul in a saberlock with one hand while pushing his brother back with his left hand and chuckling.
Do you think Obi-Wan or Ventress could compete with Sidious? They can't and they're both on Maul's level.
Then it certainly won't be a problem to show me feats from Bane and Zannah that escalate them to Maul's tier, right?. Did they defeat duellists on Qui Gon's level (who was also stated by objective sources as one of the most skilled duellists in the Jedi Order's history)? No. Did they contend with someone as skilled as TCW Obi-Wan? No.
And the fact that Maul was giving the killing strike doesn't change that Vader contended with him for a long time.
There are several examples of duellists who mastered all, or almost all lightsaber forms and were defeated/challenged by people who had mastered only one.
Dooku defeated Sora Bulq while also duelling Tholme, yet the Count concentrated mainly on mastery of Makashi. He also was stated to be an equal with Mace and a peer to Yoda, who had mastered all forms. Anakin defeated Cin Drallig, who had mastered almost all the lightsaber forms, and was the battlemaster. Having mastered many forms means much less than skill and feats, and some of these people probably aren't even top 20 when it comes to skill.
Not only that, but Maul mastered Juyo, which requires a high-level mastery of multiple forms, while Bane mastered Djem-So and was only proficient in Soresu, so I can very well use this argument against you.
It doesn't change the fact that Maul has this accolade and the feats to support it, while most others don't. You're also not considering the fact that Maul's accolade likely also includes many duellists from after Bane's time (which is still the ROTE era anyways)
Dooku is an equal with Mace, and is faster than him (disregarding the gargantuan amplification the latter had aginst Palpatine), yet he is his equal, not superior, and strenght and speed aren't that important, unless there is a huge difference between two opponents.
I have yet to see what makes Bane so much faster than Vader, who has moved so fast that he seemed to teleport, speedblitzed Jedi while still getting used to his suit, displayed good agility on multiple occasions, moved his lightsaber as a blur, etc. Thhe difference is not gaping at all.
The fact that Vader VASTLY improved in skill matters more than Bane being implied to have improved, while Vader's improvement was stated and shown by sources. And you have to prove that he VASTLY advanced in duelling skill after POD, or at least after ROT.
However, considering that he had his Obalisk armor and relied on it to protect himself from lightsaber strikes I wouldn't say that his in skill advancement was huge.
He improved after ROT by an unspecified margin, which you haven't proven anyways. And while he was shown training in lightsaber combat in DOE, this alone doesn't constitute evidence that his improvement was considerable, and certainly not to the degree you make it out to be.
And you haven't proven that he is comparable to Maul in skill, let alone far better. The fact that you find it laughable is worthless, and the only ridiculous notion is that you really think that Bane and Zannah are better than Maul despite providing no evidence for it.
I've already provided details for Bane facing 2 duelists on those guys levels. Although going just on who they've defeated is stupid. We need to look at other factors to determine their ability. Bane's speed is on another level from Vader and Mauls, they won't be able to beat someone that much faster than them. I'll provide the feats later when discussing speed. Not to mention that his natural talent with a blade is above theirs.
It does change the fact that he basically lost though.
I didn't say that he merely mastered all of them though, I said he mastered them all then spent decades perfecting every sequence and move from all of them. That's a level of technical skill that's above most everyone in the mythos, including Vader and Maul. Do I seriously need to explain to you why knowing every single form inside and out is indicative of amazing skill?
Dooku specialised in Makashi and achieved great things with it. But Kas'im specialised in every form. He perfected his skill with all of them. And most of the examples of masters of all forms losing to single form practioners its because they're outmatched in power of other attributes, such that raw skill isn't what decides the fight. Anakin didn't beat Drallig by being more skilled than him, he beat the shit out of him by just being plain better than him.
Ok, cool story bro. Nice to know that every Juyo practicioner is better than Bane merely by the the fact that they use it. Oh, except Kas'im of course.
The accolade or the feats to support it? Pretty much anyone can be said to be one of the most skilled in history with some notable feats. It's an incredibly vague and mostly worthless accolade. And of course I'm considering that. Maul being "one of" the best doesn't make him better than any of the duelists from Bane's era. It doesn't make him better than anyone who could be reasonable argued as being "one of" the best of all time.
I don't recall anything indicating Dooku is faster than Mace. Speed and strength are very important aspects. Speed most of all of course. If you cannot keep up with your opponents movements then all the skill in the world can't help you. Even if it's not by much, outpacing your opponents gives you a considerable edge. If anything it's skill that doesn't matter much between two opponents. Its like chess, at a certain level you know exactly what your opponent is doing and how to react to it. Battles become decided by something different.
Bane moved faster than a room of Sith, including Kas'im, could perceive and was attacking 10 times a second in PoD. By RoT he was fast enough that he appeared to wield a dozen lightsabers at once to Zannah, who is a very powerful and fast Sith in her own right and would have speedblitzed Raskta and Farfalla were it not for the BM. By DoE he was stated to be even faster than he was previously by Zannah and was fast enough to block every drop of rain from hitting him in a thunder storm, a feat he'd considered impossible in previous books.
Vader moving faster than the eye can see and moving his lightsaber in a blur are frankly fodder level feats. Johun Othone has those feats. And the Jedi Vader blitzed were wounded Agricultural Corps. Utter fodder. His agility isn't bad, but still well below what a real Jedi or Sith is capable of. Even as an acolyte Bane could do a standing backflip.
Bane still has an insane learning and improvement rate as established in PoD, where he learned every form and hundreds of thousands of moves and sequences in a scant few months time. With the decades between PoD and DoE coupled with his constant duels with Zannah and refinement of his lightsaber skills, it's obvious his improvement would be considerable baring that in mind.
And I believe you're overstating Vader's improvement. He was still only stalemating a barely trained Luke.
Except that you didn't actually post anything Zannah has done that surpasses Vader's feats. As usual I prove you wrong.
__________________ "Happiness is a lie. Life is horror. The light is always dying all across the universe. The last star will flicker out someday, when it does, all that remains is shadow. And I will be its king!"'-Amahl Farouk
This was a pre-prime Vader and Vader still stabbed and killed him ending the fight i,e a victory for Vader. Also Maul is a superior duelist considering Bane has never beaten anyone without Orbalisks or a nexus that you've provided apart from Sirak.
Lolnope Kas'im has no objective accolades or feats other than Bane's ignorant and unsubstantiated opinion. That's a lot of bs and fellatio you typed just to hide the fact again you can't provide a single feat for Kas'im that puts him above anyone Vader has fought.
So now you're ignoring an accolade because you think it applies to everyone that's cute. Show me one accolade for any TOR sith that was applied to them calling them among the "most skilled Sith in history". You can't because your pulling your own thoughts of your ass
So much of your opinion and so little substantive posting supporting it. Bane lost to Fohargh, lost to Sirrak, got his ass kicked by Mercenaries, was losing against Kas'im, and died to his apprentice. That's a great record Neph . He only won a fight against featless Jedi because he had orbalisks, and you've never refuted my claim Bane has never won a fight based on his own skill without an amp/nexus
And Bane and Zannah are inferior to Maul, Dooku, and Vader in that regard
__________________ "Happiness is a lie. Life is horror. The light is always dying all across the universe. The last star will flicker out someday, when it does, all that remains is shadow. And I will be its king!"'-Amahl Farouk
You tried to pass of Orbalisks Bane's speed as representative of DOE Bane's speed when its not. Doe Bane's sole speed feat was miserably slow i,e swatting at raindrops in his backyard by forming his lightsaber as a shield. He was slow enough that he had to do evasive manuevers to evade them, and even then they went past his defense. Please tell me how that makes him faster than Vader, especially when he's moved fast enough to teleport, fight invisibly fast, and materialize out of thin air. Bane's speed in Orbalisks doesn't matter, fodder Sith assassins still fought evenly with him and Zannah even held her own momentarily. Also lol @ anyone Bane fought being above the Maul clone, again without orbalisks Bane has never actually beaten anyone.
And for all of that supposed "Technical mastery" you keep harping on, why did he fail so miserably in closing a victory on a trainee in spite of:
A. Nexus
B. "Superior" technical training
C. Holding back his knowledge of Jar Kai.
If Kas'im was as proficient with his skill as you Banetards are going on, he performed miserably as his trainee still held himself well enough to where he had be deceitful and he still lost. Kas'im's skill has also never earned him a victory in any battle, and his only claim to faim is Bane's opinion (which you admitted to not questioning) like the loyal lapdog you are. Vader's dueling ability has been described of as unparalleled:
Source: "Star Wars: The Force Unleashed II: Prima Official Game Guide"
What source of confirmation can we draw on Kas'im's skill apart from the unwarranted opinion of a Sith trainee? None. Case closed, really.
Your opinion of it doesn't make it less true, sorry. Maul is confirmed by cannon as one of the most skilled, and Kas'im has nothing other than Trainee Bane's opinion. Maul has fought evenly with Mace Windu, beaten Obi Wan Kenobi, beaten Anoon Bondara, beaten Qui Gon Jinn, Beaten Savage Opress, beaten Bruu Jun Fan, Beaten Aayla Secura, beaten General Grievous, destroyed the entire Black Sun gang.
Who has Kas'im or trainee Bane beaten than stands comparable to Mauls victories/fights? ZERO Kthx Neph
All of his speed feats prior to DOE where when he was either amped by a nexus (Lehon, and Korriban) or amped by Orbalisks. Stop trying to pass off nexus speed as actually representative of Bane's speed. The only two definitive speed feats for Bane as we know he is truly capable of, is blast deflection and his laughable "rain feat" where as I've shown he isn't even fast enough to avoid all of the rain drops. Bane is one of the slowest fighters in the mythos, no other force sensitive has actually failed that miserably in a show of speed as to not even successfully deflect water droplets en masse
Except that I posted feats for Vader where he moved fast enough to appear to teleport and materialize out of thin air? This is above anything Zannah or Bane have shown. I think i've proven my case really
His sparring matches/training sequences apart from the opening part of DOE occur offpanel and aren't indicative of skill tool. Instead of going off on speculative bullshit, why don't you actually post kills Bane has made without a nexus/orbalisks to substantiate the idea that Bane is more skilled than Maul/Vader all who have killed individuals without an amp or nexus. Zannah is also a joke as a lightsaber combatant
Cannon confirms he increased in skill between ANH/ESB, i,e a source superseding your worthless fanboy opinion
Source: "Insider #62"
Luke's ability to hold his own with an individual who has defeated notable Jedi like Obi Wan, Dark Woman, and a Maul clone are superior feats to anything Bane or Zannah have done.
__________________ "Happiness is a lie. Life is horror. The light is always dying all across the universe. The last star will flicker out someday, when it does, all that remains is shadow. And I will be its king!"'-Amahl Farouk
__________________ "Happiness is a lie. Life is horror. The light is always dying all across the universe. The last star will flicker out someday, when it does, all that remains is shadow. And I will be its king!"'-Amahl Farouk
He is a good poster, but he is not my natural father.
At least not to my knowledge
__________________ "Happiness is a lie. Life is horror. The light is always dying all across the universe. The last star will flicker out someday, when it does, all that remains is shadow. And I will be its king!"'-Amahl Farouk
Your concession is accepted.
I've seen you humiliated by Intrepid, myself, Tempest, Ant, Sidious, and Stark more times that I can count.
__________________ "Happiness is a lie. Life is horror. The light is always dying all across the universe. The last star will flicker out someday, when it does, all that remains is shadow. And I will be its king!"'-Amahl Farouk
You concede because you again fail miserably to bring any evidence to support your claims other than your opinion and as usual no feats. Nargaroth is beating you like a dead horse.
__________________ "Happiness is a lie. Life is horror. The light is always dying all across the universe. The last star will flicker out someday, when it does, all that remains is shadow. And I will be its king!"'-Amahl Farouk
Sep 8th, 2014 03:12 PM
