On the subject of the Dark Side Sourcebook - if Nai's reference was to the quote from the Dark Empire Sourcebook from 1993, then yeah, it's an older source without regard for most modern Sith.
However, the quote regardless operates under the consideration of prior events, which, while not fleshed out at the time, would've still been considered. Unless there's an explicit contradiction to the quote, it applies regardless. And there is no contradiction, since Exar Kun's quote of supremacy has now been retconned to applying only up to his own time, not beyond.
Last edited by SunRazer on Jul 8th, 2015 at 12:37 AM
Didn't Mr. Filoni, the new head of canon, state that Sidious was toying with the duo?
Disregard that if you like, there's a reason many are still debating whether or not Sidious was toying with them. Still, you can't deny that it would be rather easy for Sheev to take on Maul when Sidious knows his combat style and form in and out.
He only took advantage of Saesee Tiin's attempt to read his mind then began his attack afterwards, although i'm not entirely sure if i'm correct.
Couldn't that be because he was too fast for the Masters?
First off, i want to state that i have yet to reach a conclusion of what I think happened or didn't happen in that fight. So i can't agree or disagree.
That said, you're forgetting that Mace Windu's mastery of Vaapad would grant Mace a significant edge.
Except that, Kun isn't that powerful when compared to Sidious nor is he on the same level as Yoda. I have not seen something that shows me that Exar is on par with Yoda.
But, isn't that debatable? after all Sidious has many quotes calling him a masterful user of the blade, I've seen a user provide the quote, but i don't seem to remember which thread they posted the quote in.
Perhaps, Sidious' main focus is not in direct combat, but he's not one to shy away from it either, as i stated before, Sidious and Yoda are among the top duelists of their respective eras.
The argument can be made for Kun that he, too, is the top "dog" of his era. But, i counter with this.
"What other notable duelists lived at that time?"
That's a good point, however i feel that you seem to forget that Sidious trained Maul in the saber-staff style and in several forms of combat, to the point where Maul became the most highly trained & skilled sith in history, meaning that Sidious' focus on combat isn't as ..."lax"? as you presume.
But, in all honesty, you do make a lot of good points, Nai.
But the official site mentions he toyed with Maul at the end. Of course that could just be referring to the part when he was tossing Maul around with the Force.
Let's clarify that I was referring to most his Force feats, not his saber feats. To my memory, his only unamped feats are blasting Aleema Keto into unconsciousness, and hypnotizing the senate. If you have something else, please enlighten me.
Registered: Aug 2014
Location: The balance of the Force
Defensively:
He tanked a starfighter bombing run effortlessly with Force Barrier, he reflected Aleema's attack and last but not least he shrugged off Odan-Urr's Sever Force attack.
Offensively:
He has effortlessly ragdolled powerful Jedi, he froze the 10,000 strong senate effortlessly and stomped Vodo whilst maintaining it, when he reflected Aleema's attack he sent it back so strong she was out for the entirety of the ensuing duel.
Now whilst these are not really feats, I thought I'd enlighten you further:
When Vodo, Nomi and other Jedi 'fought' Ulic on Coruscant they pretty easily defeated him with a Wall of Light that he couldn't escape, when they met Exar Kun however they didn't even try, this is yet another indication that physical Kun is immune to Wall of Light/Sever Force attacks even from the technique's most veteran practitioners.
That further reinforces the statement that Exar Kun is far more powerful than any Jedi in his time, very impressive when you consider the likes of Thon and Arca Jeth, etc..
Every dark side technique that Kyp Durron used in JA Exar Kun taught him, including that black Force Lightning that Luke couldn't defend himself from despite prior learning advanced tutaminis, as well as a spell to render lightsaber crystals useless.
Like I said not exactly feats but just some of the very interesting stuff regarding Kun's powers.
__________________
Within your furnace heart, you burn in your own flame. This is how it feels to be Anakin Skywalker.
1. Maybe so, but it's clear Palpatine didn't go all-out until the end at the novel where he all but speedblitzed Maul, who ended up seeing "more than countless" blades. Coupled with other sources, I think Filoni's quote makes it clear Palpatine wasn't going all-out from the start. In fact, in the show, the reason the brothers even managed to fight Sidious at all is because he let them down from his telekinetic grip. Their two "hits" were absolutely inconsequential to the result of the fight.
2. He never said if he goes all-out, sure, but he states the brothers can't touch Sidious and can't compete with him, and that's presumably referring to an all-out scenario. You're hurting your argument by denying that it's a reference to all-out, because then Filoni would be saying the brothers can't compete with Sidious even if he didn't go all-out.
3. He also thinks any competent Jedi Council Member would easily beat RotJ Luke. Not sure what he thinks of Council Members as a whole, but his mentioning Savage putting up a fight has no relevance as to whether Sidious held back or not. As it is, Sidious held back against Savage based on the novel and Filoni's suggestions, and he didn't against the Jedi Masters.
4. The instances you listed involve circumstances. Kun supporters will need to prove the circumstances of this fight are on his side.
As of yet, Palpatine is more powerful (accolades speak for that, and so do his telekinetic feats of ragdolling Maul/Savage, choking Tyranus across the galaxy, and his Lightning feats of matching Yoda's Absorption and even overpowering it in the novel (in the junior novel, Yoda compares the force of Palpatine's Lightning to hurricanes), as well as reducing Sithspawn to ash and impacting Mace's blade with enough force to bend it back towards him), faster (moving faster than Maul and Anakin can see, matching Yoda in speed), and more skilled (fighting closely with Yoda, outskilling Maul and Savage, fighting an amped Mace to a standstill as per the novel, where Mace won under dubious circumstances).
It's not an absolute slaughter by any means, I just haven't seen a convincing case for Kun so far. Kun is still fairly comparable to this version of Palpatine in sheer power, though, but I don't find it reasonable to suggest he's more powerful.
Also, does anybody know where this quote comes from:
"No. Exar Kun, Naga Sadow and the others are on a firmly lower tier than Emperor Palpatine."
Anderson apparently claims that in some Insider source, but "an Insider source" incredibly vague and I have a feeling it might just be made up.
I think Nai has already presented a strong argument for Kun winning.
As of ROTS Sidious seems to dominate those whom he is superior to by much. Those whom is not superior to by much have a good chance of beating him.
Examples Mace and Yoda.
I place Kun within the same tier as these two. It terms of saber skills and force powers Kun has a good chance of winning this battle. That is my opinion I would say the same for Revan as having a great chance of beating this version of Sidious.
Sidious as of ROTS to me is like a skilled Marital Artists or fighter who is being compared to another Marital Artists who is a professional fighter (Kun due to his fighting experience). Sidious could definitely win but experience is not on his side whereas for Kun it is.
Hey guys, I've come across an interesting source that should shed a light on the matter:
"Darth Sidious is the most powerful Sith Lord in history. Yes, that means he's more powerful than Exar Kun."
-- The Most Up-To-Date Star Wars Encyclopedia
Also, thanks SunRazer. The quotes you posted confirm what pretty much all of us already knew: Sidious >>> Bane. [SPOILER - highlight to read]: Bane dies.
Last edited by Stigma on Jul 8th, 2015 at 03:55 PM
Jul 8th, 2015 12:28 AM
