There's also a huge difference between combat speed, and travel speed, Carver. Which explains Kid Goku going FTL in close range during a fight, and then later on, when he was stronger, taking 22 hours to fly a million kilometers.
It's also what explains Raikage being faster than lightning, but sage mode Naruto being able to blitz him in the short range during a fight.
Or Superman being hit by human characters during a fight, while he's able to fly fast enough to cross galaxies in minutes.
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The idea that someone could dodge FTL attacks, but still be massively slower than a Goku who was flying over the Snake Way at Mach 10 is completely ridiculous. I mean, light is literally tens of thousands of times faster than that... Even if Goku could only move at that speed for a few seconds, he could have already crossed the Snake Way in that time if he were FTL.
I can understand a difference between travel speed and combat speed, but when the difference between them numbers in the tens of thousands of times, there's obviously something wrong. Unless some special kind of technique like Instant Transmission or Whis' staff is used, of course.
My comment at the time was supposed to be a joke but whatever. Besides its not like ftl speeds mattered much when Nappa came around, in terms of scaling for the other non-Goku Z-fighters at least.
If we're using Naruto from the Kaguya/Sasuke fight, I still think he's be below Raditz due to the implied power the latter would have from scaling off Piccolo. Though if he can land hits with his goudama then he'd stand a chance against Saiyan Saga characters.
Comparing DBZ and Naruto is just odd because of how differently the power is balanced.
For instance, DBZ up until it's later stages has really, really mediocre strength feats. Speed is a little harder to say, could be low or high depending on who you talk to or what showing you're looking at. At the same time, though, even in the earliest stages of Z energy attacks can be used on a planetary level, so... It's just balanced differently than Naruto.
An excellent example is Goku and Piccolo Jr as of the end of DB. Goku's weighted clothing extravaganza pales compared to Part 1 Lee's, but Piccolo can already dish out blasts *far* more destructive than Pain's full-power Shinra Tensei.
So Naruto characters could theoretically go a lot further in the DB chain if they can keep it to physical competitions than they could in a battle of energy attacks.
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Last edited by NewGuy01 on Aug 23rd, 2015 at 05:02 AM
The point is that Goku CAN'T go that speed for a few second. He can only move that speed for enough time to dodge an attack, which is EXACTLY what makes it combat speed. So it's easier to gauge it by distance, instead of time. Because Goku never needs to move at that speed for more than a nano-second, or even less.
Not really. I just explained it. There is also a disproportionate gap between Superman's travel speed, and combat speed. Superman can fly fast enough to cross galaxies in minutes, but he can get tagged by Human characters, even when he's bloodlusted. This is simply because of how different the two speeds are. Superman can dig in, and fly at FTL speeds, and can then maneuver around objects at those speeds, because he is able to see so far ahead of him with his super visions. He basically can't go that speed in a fight, because 1. He can't gain the acceleration he needs in a short distance, 2. He can't see far enough ahead of him to fly that fast, and 3. He can't control his own flight well enough to stop on a dime, from FTL speeds, like the Z-fighters can. This is why he has flown into so many things while flying before, like the Spectre, Red stars, and supernova's. He simply doesn't have the speed control that the Z-fighters do. It takes him time to go from 0 to 100, and conversely from 100 to 0
The Z-fighters fight to conserver their energy, because they don't have NEARLY the unlimited stamina that Superman has. Superman can bench the Earth INDEFINITELY, as long as he's being exposed to sunlight. But the Z-fighters could probably bench a lot more, with ki buffs, yet could only bench their max's for... Probably a couple hours, and that's being generous.
They have to eat food to regain energy, whereas Superman just has to be doing whatever he's doing in the sunlight.
This is why the Z-fighters will move so fast, stop on a dime, and then continue fighting. It's called combat speed, for a reason. It's the speed they fight at.
A good example of this was given, by Batman. He told Superman that he lost to Wonder Woman, and couldn't land a hit on her, because he fights a lot slower than she does. He told him, "Who's faster, Usain Bolt, or Bruce Lee? Usain Bolt can run a hell of a lot faster, but he would never be able to land a hit on Bruce Lee.".
Hope that clears it up for you.
And btw, "Whiss's staff", isn't a technique. It was proven in DBS, episode 3. It is simply him flying, while using the staff to guide him, through divination. Kind of like a navigation system. Whiss explained this, and Beerus confirmed it.
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In DBZ, you use weights to train your physical strength, in other words, increase it. And you use meditation to train your ki, in other words, increase it.
HOWEVER, ki can be used to amplify the Z-fighters physical strength. BUT they don't do so when training their physical bodies, because otherwise, they wouldn't be training their bodies, unless they decided to use weights that would make them struggle, even with the use of ki.
This is why it was so easy for Goku to sling a mountain sized Piccolo around, when a version of him millions of times stronger struggled with 400 tons. He was training one of the times, and the other, he wasn't.
A good way to gauge their strength is by the force in their ki blasts. If a character can bat away a solar system busting attack, then they can strike with a force of around 10 octillion megatons. Meaning SSJ2 tier, using ki to amp their strength, could physically LIFT, a force of around 10 DECILLION tons. Since they can bat away the same force, with a strike.
You just have to use a little common sense. There's not really any reason for Goku to go around, tugging planets out of orbit, when he easily could.
The author didn't just decide for Goku to have pt. 1 Lee level strength, and energy attacks above nearly every other fictional series that exists, lol. That would just be silly.
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Physically yes. Though DB Chars can amp their strength with ki. However, they can't amp it as high as their blasts. Deflecting blasts with ki is not a strength feat and as such they have no planetary strength. However, the best strength feat in DB was SSJ4 Goku supporting a part of a city. Even with the 4000x power increase due to SSJ4 he had troubles, while no one doubts that he could blasts a planet away. What is the best strength feat of a Naruto char, is it above the part-city-level of a SSJ4?
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Probably not, but then again, no one here is even considering arguing Naruto vs SSJ4 Goku. The highest incarnation even being discussed is Goku as he is in the Saiyan Saga, who's millions of times weaker.
Anyway, the best Naruto strength feats? Among them would be Kaguya effortlessly ripping apart Sasuke's Perfect Susano'o with punches--keeping in mind that PS can trade mountain busting blows with Kurama/Wood Golem/such without issue. Another one is when Naruto's punches collided, the force of the impact triggered explosions that were blasting holes in a massive volcano. Then again, these could be considered energy attacks since Kaguya was extending her reach with Chakra.
Alternatively, you have Gai, who can only use h2h techniques. During the Evening Elephant, his punches produced gusts of air strong enough to smash Madara through a mile of stone. When Naruto falcon-punched Toneri in the last, the force of the impact was enough to create a small crater in the moon.
I'm not sure if they have any quantifiable lifting feats like DBZ does, though... There were those times that Naruto lifted a potentially multi-hundred ton statue, and when he threw that Whale-sized Rhino into the sky, but these are feats from a version of Naruto who's completely fodder now.
Last edited by NewGuy01 on Aug 23rd, 2015 at 04:02 PM
Why are some idiots on here saying DBZ characters aren’t light speed when they have literally been confirmed light speed since ethe namek saga? Stop downplaying losers.
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Aug 13th, 2015 03:22 AM
