Well Killgrave has mind control abilities not strength or durability. I kind of liked the way [SPOILER - highlight to read]: Jessica tricked him into letting his guard down and getting close.
The cage stuff could have been done better i guess but it didn't bother me. Besides what other person could have pounded a non holding back Jessica in the throws of passion? Luke thats who.
You could tell he wanted to let loose on some skank for a long time without ripping her in half or bludgeoning her to a pulp.
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Last edited by Inhuman on Dec 5th, 2015 at 08:37 PM
It was always easy to kill Kilgrave- she'd had plenty of opportunities throughout the season. The trick was getting it to a point where she actually wanted to kill him; Hope's death did that.
But that said- no, it's not really a brilliant ending to the story (though it was ok). Just having it end in "Oh let's kill him after all" makes a lot of the drive of the season look pointless. May as well have just listened to crazy drugs guy and shot Kilgrave from the start. It's also not super-dramatic because we already knew she could kill him if she wanted, so we were just watching it play out.
Worst of all- total waste of a character. There was more that could have been dine there.
A cleverer finale that left Kilgrave alive would have worked better and still developed Jessica's character well. But it was still a good series.
This leaves me with two problems with the new tv continuity:
1. Luke seems VERY dull. I can't really imagine a whole series about him holding my interest at all.
2. Jessica is not an interesting hero. That's not an insult- she's not MEANT to be an interesting hero; she was intentionally given very generic powers. Jessica's whole schtick is how she fits into her story plotlines, and that works very well- but with Kilgrave gone, there's not really much left to do with her that can sustain that interest. Maybe they can get a decent second series going, but I am hard pressed to see her being interesting in the Defenders crossover. If it's not about HER, then she doesn't add anything to a standard hero story.
This is as opposed to Daredevil, who is actually interesting in his own right; you could go on forever with him. As the comics did.
Again, not a dig at Jessica. I LIKE the idea of an effectively one-off story that works well. It;s just a setup that's not extendable like other franchises.
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Last edited by Ushgarak on Dec 5th, 2015 at 09:19 PM
Do you think it's possible that Killgrave could survive somehow? Using his powers? I mean, this is the Marvel universe, generally not known for its grounded nature. Maybe he could transfer his consciousness to another human being or some such thing.
I do agree that it'd be a shame if Killgrave was truly gone for good, he was such a compelling villain.
There's no way he can survive that is not fundamentally crap. It might be worth it for all that.
That said, it's not THAT easy to do another Kilgrave story, because you can't just do the same again and he's a bit one-note; there's no way I can think of to change him that doesn't also ruin him.
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I think the ending could have been done a bit better perhaps, but Kilgrave is one of the villains where I think it is good that he died at the end. What made him compelling was basically played out. The same problem will happen if they bring back the Kingpin in a future Daredevil series, imo. Whatever is going to happen next is not going to be as interesting or compelling as the arcs the two villains had.
I mean, I guess maybe it's possible, but seems very unlikely they'd pull it off.
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no. killgrave isn't that kind of telepath. his power is all suggestion based, he can't even enter another person's mind, he has to make them tell him what they're thinking.
The only feasible way he survives is if that doctor who gave Simpson the pills somehow revives him.
as far as story goes, they wouldn't have to repeat the same formula. If Killgrave were to come back they could easily have him play the mastermind role where he uses other metas to do his bidding. He could turn his focus from Jessica to actually taking over the world.
Kilgrave can go into a healing state in the comics, which could be feasible after his upgrade where he was actually turning purple and becoming Purple Man.
But why would it be dull? This season it was personal. So why would we need another person villain story for her? How many super villains has this woman pissed off and become personally connected with? It would be no less dull to toss in more villains with deep personal connections.
They don't have to bring back Kilgrave as the main villain or anything, but lets not pretend like it couldn't be cool if done correctly.
Not to mention these are stories based on comics, and coming back from the dead is a staple of comics.
As far as I see it, this could be a villain of her own making. Kilgrave amped himself solely to be able to control Jessica, in a way she made him even more powerful. In the past he was mostly a Hugh Hefner type. But now once he see's he will never have Jessica if he turns his increased power on the world..or joins up with other villains..like I said, it could still retain a personal connection even if Kilgrave isn't the main villain.
Let's also not pretend like the show didn't embrace the duller options in the 1st season at times. Instead of her trying to turn Kilgrave good it was...hey lets kidnap him and then stick his parents in a room with him and record it!
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Last edited by Surtur on Dec 6th, 2015 at 02:29 PM
I said a. it would be dull if Kilgrave just became another super-villain
I also said b. the power of the story we just had was that it was based about being a personal thing. Jessica Jones is not an open-story viable hero; that's not what she was designed for.
What I did not say is that every JJ story had to be the same style is Kilgrave- that would be silly to have another person in that same place; impossible, in fact. Kilgrave WAS that guy in her life; you don't have more than one. 'Personalised' does not mean 'Villain has an intimate relationship with her'.
But it is difficult to write such stories and I am not 100% sure on the viability of series 2 and am certain she won't really be much good in Defenders, because being in an ensemble denies the whole area of how this season made it interesting. There's no room for that in an ensemble matchup. 'Jessica Jones helps others fight standard villain' is no good, because JJ stories aren't meant to be like that. What can she do in such a story that's interesting? Like I said, she was built from the ground up to be a boring hero but whose psychology fitted into personalised stories.
'Coming back from the dead is a staple of comics'- irrelevant. This story was very distinct from its comic book origins. It's not that sort of set up and a straight resurrection would be crap. You can't approach it with that sort of logic- it's like saying "What's special about mind control? That's pretty everyday in the MCU, even the cinematic version'. It's not the power, it's the presentation and exploration of it. It's very specific to this storyline setup- and thematically it's not like the wider MCU, despite technically being in the same continuity.
Meanwhile, you can't turn Kilgrave good- they made that point in the series. JJ going nuts on him was also part of the point; she's not rational when dealing with him (but her desire to keep him alive at any cost was important and once that was gone the tension was lost with it). That stuff was all good- not dull at all for me.
This all comes down to "How can we do another storyline for JJ that's as good as the one about her relationship with Kilgrave?" And the reason finding a good answer to that is tremendously difficult is that JJ was BUILT, from the ground up, to be about that relationship. Once that's gone, the point of her even being in a story becomes more dubious.
I mean, just to throw out a thing- I think putting Kilgrave in a Hannibal/Silence of the Lambs setup- imprisoned but with JJ still having to interact- somewhat cheap though it is, was a better option than killing him.
__________________
"We've got maybe seconds before Darth Rosenberg grinds everybody into Jawa burgers and not one of you buds has the midi-chlorians to stop her!"
"You've never had any TINY bit of sex, have you?"
BtVS
Last edited by Ushgarak on Dec 6th, 2015 at 02:46 PM
But it just comes back to the writing though. Kilgrave doesn't need to become "just another super villain" unless they write him that way. Let's be clear here too, he is played by David Tennant. He'd never be "just another villain".
The story was distinct from comics, but also obviously incorporated a lot of things. So what I'm saying is it wouldn't be a cop out or bad writing if he were to return.
As for turning him good, she could of done more to try. Thing is he doesn't need to be good, he just needs to not use his powers for evil. It would of been interesting to see her at least attempt to do that for longer then she did. Make no mistake she has power over Kilgrave just like one time he had power over her.
Could she truly change him? Would he be just going through the motions? Hard to say, but if they went that route they could of taken the series in a different direction and indeed could of ended up with your Silence of the Lambs scenario. But instead due to her actions the one person she was trying to save for most of the season ended up dead.
__________________ Chicken Boo, what's the matter with you? You don't act like the other chickens do. You wear a disguise to look like human guys, but you're not a man you're a Chicken Boo.
Last edited by Surtur on Dec 7th, 2015 at 05:37 PM
Wit that first point, I was responding to the idea that Kilgrave be trying to take over the world. That's typical supervillain stuff. If your point is "If it's a good Kilgrave story then it will be good" then- well yes, I agree. It's not easy because you do need to move Kilgrave forwards, but it's possible. But not if he's dead, which is a bit of a bummer- and in this grounded version of the mythology, just bringing him back to life would be cheap and rubbishy. It's irrelevant anyway- they aren't bringing him back, else they wouldn't have killed him. In the context of this show, that's pretty much that.
She can't keep him from evil- that was her realisation after the hostage situation.
__________________
"We've got maybe seconds before Darth Rosenberg grinds everybody into Jawa burgers and not one of you buds has the midi-chlorians to stop her!"
"You've never had any TINY bit of sex, have you?"
BtVS
Last edited by Ushgarak on Dec 7th, 2015 at 05:44 PM
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My opinion; show had a pretty good story, acting was decent but the dialog at times was complete shit. The fighting choreography was horribly. Overall, no where near on par with daredevil, IMO.
Also after watching Luke Cage in this series I'm not expecting much in his new series. Didn't much care for him. Wasn't written much of a personality. Not blaming the actor
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Last edited by Stringer on Dec 13th, 2015 at 02:59 AM
Loved the show. Fantastic acting, story, characters, etc. I agree with Stringer that the fights weren't the greatest, though (I still liked Jessica & Trish vs. Simpson and Hogarth vs. Wendy, those were fun fights; brutal and exciting). Luke was okay as a character, I guess. He didn't leave that much of an impression on me, to be honest. Hopefully his show improves on him.
Overall I'd give this season of Jessica Jones a 9.5/10.
I haven't even watched Daredevil yet, so I'm definitely looking forward to that, especially since I was so impressed with Jessica Jones.
I just watched the show, very good - more of thriller than standard superhero stuff. Very dark but I liked it.
I am looking forward to second season and I am about to watch Daredevil.
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I am on the last episode. I just can't watch the rest of it because it is too boring to me. I'll finish it, of course. But it is hard to motivate to watch it.
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